Classic American West Coast Boxing

[goose 5]

Roger: Do you believe the stories about Robinson saying "no" to the mob when he was offered money to throw fights? Wouldn't the mob force guys to loss rather than "ask" them?

[dagosd2000]

Roger: Do you believe the stories about Robinson saying "no" to the mob when he was offered money to throw fights? Wouldn't the mob force guys to loss rather than "ask" them?
[/quote

Goose
The information I got from my father ,who was connected with the Outfit in Chicago ,was that Robinson would "carry" fighters.The whole purpose behind throwing a fight is for the gamblers to make money. so if Robinson would "carry' a fighter the gamblers would still collect. Remember,Robinson didn't get a crack at Tommy Bell until he was 28. He had been fighting for 6 years and had only lost once in 76 fights. He got jerked around plenty. He knew he was great and had to display his talent taking the short end and being avoided by the title holders.If he had caved in to the gangsters he would have wound up maybe a champion earlier,but "washed up" in the end. When he won the title he said he wouldn't flop,but would continue to "carry" an opponent so the gamblers could still cash in. If you look at his welterweight defenses in Chicago all his opponents lasted the distance. He held Bernard Docusen up.Same with Bobby Lee and Bobby Dykes,all in the Windy City. Since all the arenas east of the Mississippi were mob run he repeated
those acts of kindness. Robinson was so good that to keep him winning brought in a lot of money legit and not so.it was after he came back after retiring
his star eventually began to fade. He was fighting only with his name when I saw him fight in Tijuana in the bullring against Memo Ayon By then the "washed up" moniker fit .If you had never known who Sugar Ray Robinson was,to see him in that bullring against a mediocre fighter like Ayon and lose,you'd wonder why he ever took up fighting.Very sad to see



Sugar Ray Robinson

[dagosd2000]

Before Jackie Robinson and Jim Brown and Wilt the Stilt there was a fightin' man named Joe Louis

[goose 5]

Thanks for the info,Roger. It surprises me that a fighter could refuse a mob offer to flop. Ike Williams, also, is said to have rejected offers to throw fights. Of course, Ike was connected so maybe that's why he wasn't forced to dump matches.

By the way, you mentioned Bob Satterfield in a previous post. I knew Jack Kearns Jr. and he told me the Lamotta -Satterfield fight was filmed. I'd love to see that one.

[dagosd2000]

Thanks for the info,Roger. It surprises me that a fighter could refuse a mob offer to flop. Ike Williams, also, is said to have rejected offers to throw fights. Of course, Ike was connected so maybe that's why he wasn't forced to dump matches.

By the way, you mentioned Bob Satterfield in a previous post. I knew Jack Kearns Jr. and he told me the Lamotta -Satterfield fight was filmed. I'd love to see that one.

Goose
A fighter doesn't get his legs broken because he refuses to go down when asked.What will happen is that he'll have to fight in places like Pocatello,Idaho. Robinson wouldn't lose on purpose so he never got his shot when he was ready. But he did, like I said, "carry fighters". LaMotta said Satterfield was the hardest puncher he fought. Satterfield was mob controlled.Who knows how many guys he would have flattened if they let him fight his fight?Jake perhaps?Lloyd Marshall beat Jake pretty easily.He said that black murderers row could have all beat LaMotta. LaMotta finally tanked it against Billy Fox another fighter who had more set up fights than honest ones. The word was that he wasn't very good in spite of his record which was phony. When LaMotta was brought before the NY commission he had a doctor's note(legit) that he had hurt his kidney or it might have been his liver in training and that he put in an "honest" effort against Fox. That saved his career.After that the mob backed off Jake,but his time finally arrived with Cerdan. Marcel said he "hurt" his shoulder in Detroit when LaMotta flipped him to the canvas.LaMotta said he liked fighting in Detroit.He beat Ray Robinson there and lost only once(Robinson) in around a dozen fights.Detroit was another mob controlled city.

LaMotta/Satterfield on film.That would be great to see.



Jake LaMotta

[goose 5]

Remember when Raging Bull came out and Jake was making the rounds on a lot of television programs? His line was that he and Robinson fought so often because nobody would fight them. But Jake never mentioned the black murderers row guys. True, he beat Lytell and Williams but Lytell was very green at that time and there never was a rematch. As for Williams, Jake wouldn't go near him in 1944 or 1945. Forget about Burley-Jake would never want any part of him.

[dagosd2000]

Remember when Raging Bull came out and Jake was making the rounds on a lot of television programs? His line was that he and Robinson fought so often because nobody would fight them. But Jake never mentioned the black murderers row guys. True, he beat Lytell and Williams but Lytell was very green at that time and there never was a rematch. As for Williams, Jake wouldn't go near him in 1944 or 1945. Forget about Burley-Jake would never want any part of him.
[/quote

Goose
One thing we have to swallow on a boxing forum.How many of these fights we discuss were on the level? I'm trying to put myself in the place of the guys who called the shots back east.What would Mike Jacobs profit if Lytell and Williams would have beaten LaMotta? The Black Murderers' Row didn't frequent MSG much,The big fights were on Robinson and Louis's end.It's all about money. Not much money to make with the BMR fighters. So why have a guy like LaMotta get his brains beat out by that list?Those black fighters that went in the tank made more money on the side laying down that what their purses actually were. They would fight each other and make practically nothing. So fight a LaMotta and just go through the motions and make more money and keep on fighting .Someone once said that boxing is the red light district of sports, and it will be that way forever.

BTW.If you read Raging Bull,LaMotta never says he went in the tank against Billy Fox. He says he hurt his kidney in training and went to the doc before the fight and got the doc to say he had a hurt kidney. There was his excuse when he went before the commission.He had a doctor's note. You tell me your dream and I'll tell you mine.Sounds like stuff Congress does all the time.

[dagosd2000]

The Oxymoron

You think of a TIGER as a ferocious predator cat stalking his prey on stealth paws and then springing with all his muscle and bared fangs tearing into the torso of his terrified victim. You know you have to be mighty hungry to get your lunch that way.


When we think of gentleness and beauty we might associate the likeness of a field of FLOWERS in spring bloom basking in the sun's rays at the height of their color. and freshness.

Combine the two pictures and we have a contradiction of sensations and imagery. One of terror.One of beauty. Put the two words together-Tiger and Flowers. Now eliminate the conjunction. The result is one of boxing's great champions-Tiger Flowers the middleweight champ who beat Harry Greb to win the crown.


The southpaw black fighter was born in the deep south in Camille,Georgia. A pious man devoted to his Baptist faith,he was called "The Georgia deacon." Before his fights he would recite psalms from the Good Book. When he beat Harry Greb for the championship many at ringside and the sportswriters thought that Greb got robbed that night at Madison Square Garden. In the rematch it looked like Greb took back his belt,but the verdict was in Flower's favor again. There was an investigation by the New York Athletic Commission, but they said they couldn't find nothing.I guess the gamblers had to kick something upstairs to the Commish so he would look the other way. But when Mickey Walker,accompanied by wily Doc Kearns, was matched with Flowers in The Windy City this time it was Flowers who got the pruning of his championship belt. He was heartbroken and couldn't understand it. He asked God what he should learn from this travesty . His detrmination to stay on a righteous course would eventually make things right again. He'd get what he thought he deserved,a rematch,but Doc Kearns wouldn't let his fighter get within" signing the contract distance ."So Tiger kept stalking opponents and quoting the Good Book.

In November of 1927 Tiger entered a hospital to have surgery to remove scar tissue from his eyes. He experienced complications from the operation and passed away a few weeks later. Tiger Flowers didn't get that rematch with Walker nor another chance to win a title, But what does a championship belt compare to what he won passing through the Pearly Gates?



The Georgia Deacon

[dagosd2000]

So Near And So Far Away

My wife and I had to go to Tijuana the other day to send money down to her hometown to pay the property taxes on our house. Just before we reached the border my wife said,
"I need to change the money into pesos. Stop in San Ysidro."
San Ysidro, the suburb right across the border from Tijuana, has dozens of exchange houses they call "Casa De Cambios."But there was only one more off ramp to San Ysidro before I reached the border and that exit is always backed up.
"Why don't you just change the money in Tijuana?"I told her."The rate is the same and there's 'Casa De Cambios all over the place everywhere down there.I do it all the time."
My wife hit the roof.
"No me gusta. Hay muchos ladrones that wait ouside and watch you and then they rob you.No.No me gusta.Vamos a San Ysidro."
"Well God damn it build the f-----g wall!.F--k Mexico! Build the God damn wall!Don't let anyone in or let anyone out.It's always something"
I was hot under the collar. I turned off to the last exit.
"The first f-----g place I see you're gonna' change your money there."
At the first corner there was Casa De Cambio.
"There's one at the corner. I'll make a U turn and you can go there."
"But I like the going to the place up the street."
"F--k the place up the street.There's always a line a mile long and besides they all give the same exchange rate.You're all creatures of habit."
I could tell that my wife was sore,but I'd had it with this bull s--t. There's certain things you can't do in Tijuana that you wouldn't think nothing of on the San Diego side. After exchanging her money we drove across the border into Tijuana. The Mexicans have changed the lanes to get across,It used to be that the lines going into Mexico and the return lanes were parallel to each other. Sometimes I'd be slowly driving across into Tijuana when all of sudden a herd of twenty or so Mexicans would run through the lanes entering Mexico past the Mexican cops and then when getting across to the U.S. side would scatter in all directions.They'd run by my car hell bent for leather.The Mexican cops didn't try to stop them and the border patrol on our side couldn't get the drop on them in time. It made me wonder how desperate you have to be to run across the border like that.

There are certain things you don't do in Tijuana unless you want something bad to happen(I could write a tome about the things but it would consume 20 pages on the thread.) I'll start by saying don't park your car on the street. I've come back to my car and found windows smashed,ignition hot wired,and here'a a real pip:They'll tow your car away and you'll see a temporary "No estacionarse" sign (no parking) in the space where you parked your and a cop. They see you leave and then the cop puts up the sign. Nothing you can do but either pay him or go to the police station if you want to get your car back..Find a parking lot near Revolution Street that has a rent a cop. Most parking lots now close at 9 pm. Thugs wait in the dark corners in parking lots and, especially if you're alone, they'll mug you. Women never park their cars in a parking lot at night

If you're a woman don't wear gold chains around your neck or have your cell phone in your back pocket.If you're a dude keep your wallet in your front pants pocket.

Try to stay around Revolution Street especially if you're visiting. There are more cops around that don't want any riff raff going on in the tourist areas. With all the flap that's been going on with the narcos and the wall there are fewer white faces roaming around Tijuana.

Mexicans naturally have their heads on a swivel. They don't trust strangers.They know that for every good turn you get it stuck in your ass. So why be a nice guy unless it's somebody you know like family or a compadre. One of the first big graffiti tagging in Tijuana was "TKN?(Trust No One).You don't see people leaving tips at a restaurant and if you're the gringo at the table you'll be picking up the tab.


I used to play on a Mormon softball team. i ain't no Mormon ,but I got along.One day one of the Mormon's asked me if I wanted to go with them to Tijuana. He said that once a month the Mormons would all go down to to Tijuana and find the poorest neigborhood and go to the poorest house and knock on the door to tell the people living there that the Mormons where going to build them a brand new house for free. I was asked if I wanted to participate.So I went one weekend. The house was a one room structure with a concrete slab. Nothing fancy,but a hell of a lot better than what they were living in before. i went one time. About a month later we had another softball game and I asked how the building project was going.
"We had to give it up."
"What happened?"
"Well,the neighbors were upset that we built a house for a bunch of lazy bums and that they didn't derserve a new house."


My father got together with some San Diego businessmen to go to Tijuana and help out a poor community. It was all volunteer work.They worked out of a building that taught the men how to become carpenters and electricians. There were sewing classes for the women. and nurses to teach them first aid. They had a pre school for the little kids.There was even a medical and dental clinic. My father was in charge of athletics. He organized a baseball team on the U.S. side and we'd play games against the teams from the Tijuana fire and police departments.After the games we'd have "carne asadas" and refreshments.One day it all came crashing down. Seems that some volunteer American nurses and doctors were handing out birth control pills to some of the women. The cops came in and put a lock on the door.

Chicago was the murder capital of the U.S. last year with over 700 murders,mostly on the southside.Tijuana had over 900,spread out all over the city. Tijuana has 1/3 the population of Chicago.Some of the most dangerous areas of Tijuana are right along the fence that separates the borders.Stash houses for drugs,drug addicts and dealers,coyotes,thieves,just about everyone scufflin' and hustlin'.

You might wonder why I would go to such a place. Tijuana has 50,000 cars and 20,000 pedestrians crossing legally into the U.S. daily.That's more than any border crossing in the world.So why do I go?Well, i have a daughter and three grand daughters and seven great geand kids in TJ. I can go to Tijuana and not be the tourist,I've rubbed shoulders with the rich and poor.It's the other side of theworld. A world that is hard and unforgiving.A poster asked me where I get my ideas to write so many stories. Take a trip to Tijuana and keep your head on a swivel and your eyes and ears open,and then look inside yourself.




The little reataurant on the corner of 3rd and Madero I used to coach that fella's brother in American football at the private school CETYs 30 years ago. That's his mother standing behind him. I always get the ham and egg torta with refries on the side and a big glass of homemade Jamaica



Deportes Viking on Constitution Boulevard. Muhammad Ali was scheduled to hold a pblic workout in Tijuana before the Norton fight. It fell through.but he did go down there and buy some Reyes gloves and a heavy bag.






Boxing gym at Benito Juarez Park in the Zona Norte. The city named the gym in honor of Gaspar Ortega who lived and fought in Tijuana. Gaspar told me he went there for the presentation. This was probably 20 years ago. The park is located very near the border. A road separates the park from the fence on the U.S. side.A couple of years ago I went to visit. The park was empty.Trash and used needles on the ground.I went inside the gym. There were two guys lifting some light dumbells. They told me that the next day the city was going to close the gym because of lack of attendance. The area is very rundown.Very lonely during the day. Garbage piled up in the streets,abandoned buildings,graffiti everywhere.At night the streets are dark .The thieves and other sordid characters have busted all the street lamps so that they can pillage unseen. There's one of Tijuana's oldest cemeteries near the park.The addicts go in there at night and shoot up.Every week or about they find a dead body in the street killed gangland style. Usually no head.That's very big down there.

[Chuck1052]

A number of world titles were frozen when reigning titleholders went into the service during World War II. Freddie Cochrane, the reigning world welterweight champion at the time, didn't fight for nearly three years until June 1945. After cashing in on some non-title bouts, including two with Rocky Graziano, Cochrane lost his title when he was stopped by Marty Servo during February 1946. After being stopped in a non-title bout with Rocky Graziano, Servo retired due to an injury, which resulted his title being declared vacant. At the age of 25 and being a top fighter for at least five years at the time, Sugar Ray Robinson won the vacant title in a bout with Tommy Bell during December 1946.

In fairness to Servo, he was a good fighter before joining the service. For instance, he had two very competitive fights with Sugar Ray Robinson during 1941 and 1942 respectively. Like a number of other boxers who had their careers interrupted when joining the service, he probably wasn't nearly as good after getting out. One reason why he may have received a title shot before Robinson was that his manager was Al Weill.

Another fighter who had his title frozen after joining the service was Tony Zale, the reigning world middleweight champion. Before joining the service, Zale had his last title defense against Georgie Abrams during late 1941 and had his last bout against Billy Conn during early 1942. Zale didn't have another bout until 1946. During that year, Zale had a number of non-title bouts before having a title defense against Rocky Graziano during September 1946, his first one in nearly five years!

Keep in mind that Graziano got the title shot by fighting welterweights, not the best ones to boot, almost exclusively. But Graziano was the greatest non-heavyweight gate attraction at the time. Both Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta also were terrific gate attractions, but couldn't match Graziano in that category during the middle 1940s. As a bonus to Zale, Graziano was considered less formidable than a number of other fighters in the welterweight and middleweight division, including Robinson, LaMotta and a number of fighters in the so-called "Murderers' Row." As it was, Zale had three sensational title bouts (winning the first, losing the second and winning the rubber match) with Graziano before finally losing the title for good to Marcel Cerdan, another fighter who got a title shot vs. Zale when there were other fighters who were more than deserving.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

After his professional career began during July 1934, Joe Louis had a meteoric rise in the heavyweight ranks at a time when American boxing venues were having a very tough time of it due to the Great Depression. Under such circumstances, it is astounding that Louis drew such massive gates, especially at a time when ticket prices generally were quite a bit lower than during the 1920s. During the period from 1935 to when he retired for the first time during 1948, Louis was greatest gate attraction in boxing by a massive margin.

It is true that the gates for Louis's lesser bouts don't seem to be that impressive seventy or eighty years later. But Louis was such a dominant fighter that there were few heavyweights who could competitive when in the ring with him. As a result, Louis faced quite a few fighters who were not good enough to be competitive. In fairness, Louis was very active for a world heavyweight champion largely because he faced such fighters. But he also faced every top heavyweight who was active during his reign.

It has been argued that Louis avoided other black heavyweights before he joined the army during World War II. Lem Franklin's name come up when there is a discussion on this subject. Franklin was an absolutely thrilling heavyweight fighter with terrific punching power, especially in his right hand. Jack Hurley, the great all-around boxing man, managed Franklin when the latter took the boxing world by storm during 1941 with his most notable victory being TKO win over a heavyweight contender, Abe Simon, in front of a large crowd in Cleveland during October. But the world crashed down on Franklin when he was stopped by another heavyweight contender, Bob Pastor, in front of another large crowd in Cleveland during February 1942.

After his loss to Pastor, Franklin lost seven out of nine bouts, six of the losses in which he was stopped. Hurley encouraged Franklin to retire after a few of such bouts. One time, Franklin did retire and went to work to support his wife and daughter. But he insisted on coming back later on. In his final bout, Franklin sustained fatal injuries when he was stopped by Larry Lane in Newark during 1944.

Franklin may have been a top contender for four months after beating Simon. But with his dramatic decline beginning with his stoppage loss to Pastor, it is a stretch to claim that Franklin was being ducked by Louis. Moreover, Louis was preparing to join the U.S. Army when Franklin may have been a top contender.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Happy Birthday Marty

[Chuck1052]

After an incredible amateur career, Sugar Ray Robinson made his pro debut in a scheduled four-round bout against Joe Echevarria, a Puerto Rican fighter, on a Madison Square Garden boxing card featuring Henry Armstrong fighting Fritzie Zivic in a scheduled fifteen-round bout with Armstrong's world welterweight title at stake. Up until his bout with Robinson, Echevarria had a record of four wins (two by a knockout or stoppage), seventeen losses (none by a knockout or stoppage) and four draws. Echevarria proved to be no match for Robinson and lost by a TKO in the second round. By an unanimous decision, Zivic won the bout with Armstrong by having a very strong showing in the fifteenth round. According to two of the scorecards, the bout was even after fourteen rounds.

Besides having incredible ability and skills, Robinson was a very colorful individual and made a great effort to please the fans during his bouts. In his autobiography, he did admit that he carried opponents at times, but added that he would step on the gas if the fans became restless. He also said that he had more of an obligation to the fans than to gamblers. Robinson would go on to have many memorable and thrilling bouts.

As a boxer in both the amateur and professional ranks, Robinson was very fortunate to be a resident of New York City, by far the most important fight town at the time. Within a year after becoming a professional fighter, Robinson was fighting in main events at Madison Square Garden in New York City and at the Arena, Convention Hall and Shibe Park in Philadelphia. He also became a good drawing card in both New York City and Philadelphia during that time.

When Robinson fought Marty Servo in a ten-round main event at Convention Hall in Philadelphia on September 25, 1941, Charley Burley fought Antonio Fernandez in a ten-round semi-final. At the time, Robinson had been in the professional ranks for only a year while Burley had been a pro for five years. Servo fought in a highly spirited manner and got the fans on his side. But Robinson won an unanimous decision, which probably was fully deserved despite some protests from the crowd. Burley also won a decision in his bout. Steve Compton heard a recording of a radio broadcast of the Burley-Fernandez bout and said that the fans were booing while the bout was taking place.

According to his record, Burley never fought in Philadelphia again after his bout with Fernandez. He also fought one time each in both Chicago and New York City. Moreover, Burley never fought in Detroit or Cleveland, both of which were very important boxing centers at the time.

The bout with Fernandez also appears to be the last one that Burley had while fighting in the same boxing stable as Fritzie Zivic. Luke Carney, Zivic's longtime manager, apparently had the same problem getting fights for Burley as Burley's first manager, Phil Goldstein, had. Goldstein managed Burley from 1936 until he sold Burley's contract during early 1941. After being in the same stable as Zivic for a matter of months, Burley would move with his family to Minneapolis during late 1941. According to a news item in the Minneapolis Star, he quit a $10. a day job in a steel mill in Pittsburgh to make the move in an attempt to jumpstart his boxing career in Minneapolis.

Added Note- The first bout between Robinson and Servo reportedly drew a crowd of 11,000 and had a net gate of $15,300. Servo appears to have been undefeated going into the bout, but also had two previous draws. After the first bout with Robinson, Servo won an unanimous decision in a ten-round bout with Lew Jenkins. In a scheduled ten-round rematch with Robinson at Madison Square Garden on May 25, 1942, Servo lost a highly unpopular split decision. The bout drew a crowd of 13,673 and had a gross gate of $31,870.95. Servo donated ten percent of his purse, a sum of over $500., to the Coast Guard Relief Fund. His purse was estimated to be between $5,000. and $6,000. This was Servo's last bout before joining the Coast Guard. He would not have another bout for three-and-a-half years.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Battle Of The Birds

The Martin Luther King Day Parade is always a grand event in Southeast San Diego celebrating the great man's birthday. During the early 70's I was playing football for the Ghetto Messengers,the lone white boy on the squad.The Messengers were one of the two neighborhood teams in Southeast San Diego ,specifically the Logan Heights area. The Messengers were comprised of mostly former college and pro players.I played ball at City College in the downtown part of the city. We were once ranked number 1 in the state before losing our final game at the Rose Bowl for the state title. It escapes me at the moment who we played that day. Some of the black players on the City College team asked if I'd like to play for The Messengers. Neal Pettie ,who was a former receiver for the Baltimore Colts when Johnny Unitas was QB, was one of the ends for the Messengers. Humphrey Covington is another name I'll drop.He was the "up back" at USC in 1967 when O J Simpson was 1st Team All America.

The other team in the hood was called Soul Brothers Incorporated. They were a rough bunch but most of those guys' gridiron experience was playing in the street or in the penitentiary.Every Martin Luther King Day we'd play the Soul Brothers in the Ghetto Bowl played on the field at neighborhood Lincoln High School. The Brothers played hard,but we would always beat them. We were tough too,but we had more skills and better players.That's what it boiled down to.


Just a side note. I was OK with all the Messengers.Not all those guys did I know on a first name basis.before I joined the team. Jose Hall ,who ran the Ocean View Park Recreation Center, threw an elbow at me during a scrimmage after the play was over. I automatically threw one back at him even harder. Jose was about 6 foot 6 and weighed around 250 I'd guess.He stood there looking at me like he was going to do something,but just kind of smiled. After practice he said I was the toughest lineman on the team.I knew then I wouldn't have anymore problems. But the guys on Soul Brothers Inc. didn't care for me. I could tell. One very hot afternoon when we were going up against them I tackled their running back on their side of the field. When I got up I saw their water jug on the bench. I asked if I could get some water. They said no. I never liked them after that. I was sure not going to take any s--t from them on or off the field.


After the Ghetto Bowl Game there's was a parade that began at the school and ended at Ocean View Park about a mile away. Kids and adults would be marching and riding horses. The Lincoln High School Marching Band would be playing as they headed towards Ocean View Park wearing their bright green and white uniforms that are the school's colors. The Ghetto Messengers and The Soul Brothers were also avid marchers. I remember one time a couple of little black kids came up to me and were giving me the once over.
"Hey white boy get your f-----g ass out of here,"scowled one of them."
I immediately pulled out my Ghetto jersey from my chest.
"Look.I'm on the team."I pled.
"I don't care ,"smirked the other kid."Get you white f-----g ass out of here you f-----g white boy."
I don't think they wanted my autograph.

After everyone had arrived at the park the dignitaries made theirs speeches. The mayor was first. He'd spout his accolades for Martin Luther King,hang around awhile,and then slip away.The district councilmam,Leon Williams, then would get on the dais.More fancy rhetoric,then he'd shake a few hands promising this, and that,but he didn't look for an out..He was a neighborhood guy and though he was a politician he was OK. I always stuck around to the end. The Powell brothers,Art,Charley,and Jerry would circulate through the park. Some of the San Diego Chargers like Paul Lowe and Earl Faison were high profile. And of course there was Archie Moore. Just to add,all those fellas' I mentioned(except for the mayor) were neighborhood people.

There was always ample entertainment. I remember Mary Wells and the great jazz organist Jimmy Smith entertaining hours on end. They knew "their" audience and preformed laying out for the entire time they were on the bandstand. I often think they played for free. They went on non stop.They had a good a time as all the people in the park.


On equal footing with the music was the food. was the food. The chow was mostly soul food. Some of the Samoans and Filipinos in the neighborhood had their food frying in skillets and pans at their food stands. But I came for the soul food,and there was no place within a hundred miles that could match those recipes.


When Archie Moore would have his block parties on the street outside his house in Southeast he'd make sure he cooked up a pile of chicken poppin' and crackilin' amply doused with his homemade barbeque sauce. He once opened a chicken restaurant in the neighborhood ,I think in the late 40's. He closed its doors because with his fighting he couldn't successfully do both at the same time. But he was always bragging about his "secret" barbeque sauce.That was what separated Archie's birds from the rest of the flock. One evening at the M.L. King Day at Ocean View Park I made sure I ambled up to Archie's bird stand. The aromas wafting through the air were enough to trigger everyone's salivary glands within the city's limits. Archie had some of the traditional sides:red beans and rice,fried okra,potato salad,and for dessert peach cobbler.But it was the chicken that I had on my mind that I wanted to get in my mouth.The Old Mongoose was in his chef's apron shifting skillets and pans from griddle to griddle,his hands moving like a mongoose like they did against Maxim when he won the title. I jokingly asked him what was in his "secret" barbeque sauce. He smiled wide with those gray mutton chops on his robust cheeks.
"Now you know I ain't givin' that away to nobody," he chortled.

Ray Huffman owned his barbeque joint just up the block from Lincoln High School. Around the hood,Ray's restaurant was refereed to as "The Stick."It was a neighborhood landmark. Hanging on the walls inside were pictures of Ray with black noteworhies like Muhammad Ali,Jesse Jackson,Malcolm X,Paul Lowe,Earl Faison,and of course Mr. Southeast,Archie Moore.I lived crosstown,but at least a half dozen times a year I'd get the craving for some of Ray's vittles. My favorite was his hot links. I was a sucker for them dogs. I'd think of something like brisket or pork ribs driving over, but would breakdown and get the hot links.Like Archie Moore ,Ray Huffman would have his little stand cookin' and smokin' at the park on MLK Day. Ray had his chicken specialties that were mighty tasty and habit forming,but I didn't want Archie Moore to see me go to Ray Huffman's stand and order any chicken since I had stripped one of Archie's birds to the bone a little while earlier. So I went with my usual,the hot links.


Ray Huffman passed away awhle back .He left the restaurant with one of his daughters,but she started cutting corners and the food had lost its appeal. The locals saw it right away. Can't fool black folk about barbeque. The former restaurant is some sort of computer store. But they left the sign on the side of the building stay. What the hell,how could a computer store ever reach the heights when Ray Huffman had his place going full throttle?


And the Old Mongoose. I wonder if he took his recipe of his barbeque sauce to the grave with him? I see on the internet there's an outfit back east that makes "Archie Moore's Sauce." Naw.It can't be Archie's recipe. They're just using his name.I ain't gonna' send away for no bottle. It just all should be left alone in peace.Those memories have enough flavor to keep my salivary juices flowing.



Picture inside Huffmans. Ray Huffman and Archie Moore




When it was "The Stick."



I always went with the hot links



Cookin' up a mess of ribs



Isn't This A Lovely Day?

[goose 5]

Roger: I'm curious about how tall you estimate Archie Moore to have been? A friend of mine knew him and claimed he was only about 5'8" but I always doubted that.

[dagosd2000]

Roger: I'm curious about how tall you estimate Archie Moore to have been? A friend of mine knew him and claimed he was only about 5'8" but I always doubted that.

Goose
When I got to know him he was as tall as I was,5'10''.Later though I think his bones were starting to wear away. Maybe near the end 5'8'was a good estimate.

[dagosd2000]

A Two Way Street

I'll never forget the time I coached my last game on the government field,The CREA,in Tijuana. I was coaching the football team down there, CETYs,,American football. The kids were more interested in American football than their "futbol". In fact I don't think the school even had a soccer team.How I got the job was on a whim. On Saturday morning I'd read the prep sports page to get the results of the high school football scores. Every now and then I'd see that this team CETYs would play a team up here and the outcome would always be familiar.they'd get their brains beat out.They'd lose 50 to nothing,70 to 6,etc But all this did was pique my curiosity. At the time I was doing mostly sub work as a teacher. I had nothing permanent.So one day I decided to get in the car and go to this CETYs and see if I could lend a hand. I only had a vague idea were the school was located. I knew it was in the east section of the city so I crossed into Mexico at the Otay crossing about 6 miles east of San Ysidro. Somehow I knew in the back of my mind that things were going to work out. I was fuzzy on the details,but when you got that hunch you got to play it.I asked a few people that were walking around how to get to the school.. After about a half hour I found CETYs.


The school is up a hill past a lot of what they call "machiladoras". Those are foreign factories that employ Mexicans. The machiladoras ar mostly Japanese owned,but Mexican law states that the government gets like a 49% cut of the profits. That might sound steep,but considering that the Mexican workers made about 50 dollars a week for 6 days it still was a bargain. The workers weren't allowed no unions and if they had a strike they got the ax. To top it off they wren't allowed any bonus pay for doing a good job. This was all a part of Clinton's NAFTA deal. It was a deal for Mexico and the Japanese but the Americans working right across the border on the U.S. side were getting the doors closed and everything moving a mile or so to Tijuana.Ross Perot said that NAFTA would make "a big sucking noise." You could hear it in San Diego.

So I finally get up to the school and parked my car in the lot. CETYs is a private school.There were three campuses offering high school and college courses. Comparing CETYs with the other government schools was not what I'd call night and day,but more like late afternoon and daytime.The buildings that contained the classrooms were kept up and clean..It was before the technological age of computers and the internet.The owner of CETYs was a guy named Jose Fimbres who owned all the Cali-Max supermarkets in the state.He was a multi millionaire who was in tight with the spin doctors.

I got directed to the athletic department which was in a small trailer.I saw a little guy with thick wavy black hair sitting at a desk. He had a pock marked face and he was smoking a cigarette.He was writing something down on a notepad. I could see that the ashtray in front of him was full of crushed butts.I cleared my throat. He looked up with a puzzled look on his face.
"Hola amigo,"I said.
I made sure I spoke my best broken Spanish.(For understanding purposes I'll continue my dialogue with him in English)
"I'm a football coach in San Diego. I 've coached at Point Loma High School.I see that CETYs plays games in San Diego. Did you need any help?"
Jumping into my motive feet first is not the way Mexicans like to negotiate,but I figured I couldn't start off with just small talk.It wouldn't make sense.
"My name is Rogelio Esty. I'd like to help if I could.
Then I brought out the big guns.
"My wife is Mexican.We have a house in Michoacán and a daughter here in Tijuana. She lives in Canon Jhonson."
Those statemants along with my broken Spanish was the hook I needed.
"My name is Ernesto Campa," said the guy at the desk.
He got up and gave me a handshake. I didn't get back to the football end of it for quite some time. He knew of the Point Loma team. There were one of the powerhouses in the Southern Section.Iasked him about his school and he said that CETYs was the best school in Tijuana. He said that the principal,Jesus Cabrera, was very dedicated to seeing that CETYs achieved top honors in the State of Baja. The principal had a PHD from the University Of San Diego but preferred working at CETYs.About 1500 students attended the prep school and the college. Campa said the kids that went to CETYs came from some of the richest families in Tijuana.I had vey few experiences with the Tijuana "aristocracy" My wife's family was from the ranch and they were relatively poor. Canon Jhonson .were my daughter lived, was an old rundown neighborhood just west of downtown.But the economic factor didn't make any difference. Although the CETYs kids drove around in new cars,the staff at CETYs rode in automobiles that had over a hundred thousand miles and dented fenders.

Everything was going according to hoyle Now we were ready to talk about football.
"I see the scores in the papers on Saturday,"I said. "I'd like to turn things around."
Campa then got on the phone. I heard him say that he wanted the football coaches and the principal to come to the trailer. After about five minutes a dignified looking gentleman in a suit walked in followed by three other younger men wearing sweatpants and sweatshirts. Campa was standing at the door with his chest out and an ear to ear smile.
"Cabrera,"exclaimed Campa."This is Royer(from now on I was "Royer") Esty.He coaches football at Point Loma High School. He wants to help CETYs."
They didn't even sit down when they brought out the papers to sign.You might think that I'd try to bargain with my salary,but I knew that just because I was a gringo and had a good track record that I would be paid like everyone else. They wouldn't try to short change me.i'd just get what everyone else was making.That turned out to be the standard teacher's pay,60 dollars a week.I found out later that Cabrera the principal was pulling in only 12 g's a year.He had to supplement his income by running a little general store that they call an "aborotes" where he lived to eke out a few more pesos.By the way ,no one that worked at CETYs lived in the parts of the city where those kids called home. the kids lived in the few swank neighborhoods like Chaputepec,Hipodromo.and the old established section south of the city,Colonia Cacho.The CETYs people lived in LaMesa,20 De Noviembre and Libertad that were the more or less middle class suburbs of Tijuana.

I brought my wife back the next day to introduce her to the associates of my new team. I could tell my wife felt uneasy.Poor Mexicans get this inferiority suspicion around the rich She didn't say too much,but then the CETYs people ,players and staff,showed no snobbishness towards her. Over time it became like one big CETYs family.


Well,to get down to nitty gritty:how to turn the fortunes of the football team around. For starters the players were very athletic,big strong,fast.Their problem was between their ears. They lacked discipline. They weren't team players.They wanted to do it their own way. If they didn't feel like going to practice,they stayed home or were with their girl friends.If they got tired running wind sprints they'd go sit under a shade tree.It took me about two weeks to straighten things out. First,I got all those kids in the gym lifting weights. There was a nice gym in LaMesa so we all joined and lifted. I led the way and in those days I was still in my prime and that impressed them .Then I entered them in a "passing league" on the U.S. side. The teams were some of the finest in the county.:Point Loma.Lincoln,Morse,University High. Well, we won the league. (All the kids on the team had passports so it was no problem with Customs when we crossed).Next I got all the coaches to attend "coaching clinics"in San Diego comprised of college and pro coaches from the U.S. that lectured on all facets of the game.I had some difficulty scheduling games because U.S teams weren't allowed to play in Tijuana for insurance reasons and the teams stateside wouldn't have wanted to play in Mexico anyway.

We hit the boards running that first year.We won 4 out of 5 games against San Diego teams. That was the first time a Mexican prep football team had ever beaten a U.S. squad.We were on the San Diego news channels. We even had a short write up in Sports Illustrated. The CETYs players we ecstatic.But I have to say that the San Diego teams didn't like losing to no team from Tijuana. They said we had ringers.I'd get upset with that crap so I'd have our kids show those debunkers their passports. It was like a dream. The kids,the parents,the school never felt so proud.

But there's a downside to this story. You see,the teams that played American football in Tijuana hated our guts. They didn't play any games In San Diego. You'd think they'd be happy that for the first time a Mexican team was successful in the U.S. But no,they were very jealous. There was another private school in Tijuana called Instituto Mexico that played U.S. football. We would play them.We were much better but couldn't counter their resentment.They would bribe the referees before every game. There was no way I was gong to bribe a referee.But every time we played Instituto Mexico we lost.. The games were on the government field,The CREA, which was a soccer field.There were a ton of fans watching every time we played.I'd say just about all the spectators were pulling for Instituto Mexico to beat us.It all stemmed from jealousy,and the fact that I was an American coach. With the refs in their hip pockets it was impossible. Every time we scored a touchdown the ref would throw a flag. We must have had 20 touchdowns called back the 3 times we played them The last game we played our coaches got upset with all the rotten officiating so the refs tossed them out.Now I'm alone on the sideline and I begin to hear it.
"Hey pinchi gringo.Go f--k yourself. F--k your mother. a--hole."
The chorus was coming from the opposite sideline.It was a mob over there.What the hell was I going to do? if I challenged someone I wasn't sure if my side would back me up. (like The Lone Ranger and Tonto surrounded by the Indians and The Lone Ranger says,"Look like we're done for Tonto and Tonto says,"What you mean we?)Without any back up I would have been killed.The CETYs people certainly didn't give me any hint that they wanted to engage the other sideline.

Well,that was my last game with CETYs. I wasn't making any money. My wife thought I was crazy working I Tijuana.So I returned to San Diego and landed a permanent position at Point Loma High School. A couple of years ago I couldn't believe what happened. Some of those old CETYs guys came knocking on my door. I invited them in.My wife made coffee.We reminisced and laughed about those old days. After I left,and this was almost 20 years ago,CETYs never won another game in the U.S But I knew what those fellas' main purpose was :they wanted me back again to coach.
"Hey ,fellas' I'm retired now. I spend most of my time with my grand kids,and besides my arthritis gives me a lot of trouble.'
They gave it a shot,but it missed by a mile.




The CETYs football "Osos" Go team!

[Chuck1052]

According to a news item in the March 13, 1941 edition of the Pittsburgh Press on the Newspapers.com website, Irwin Silverman bought Charley Burley's contract from Phil Goldstein. Burley signed a two-year contract with Silverman. Due to contractual difficulties with Goldstein, Burley hadn't fought in any bouts in the Pittsburgh area for quite awhile. Pittsburgh promoters appeared to avoid having Burley to fight for them after the latter and Goldstein broke up "several months ago." Burley reportedly received offers to fight in Pittsburgh after he signed with Silverman.

Note- It was widely rumored that Fritzie Zivic put up the money for Silverman to buy Burley's contract. Zivic's longtime manager, Luke Carney, seemed to do the actual managing of Burley for a period of a little over eight months. It is widely thought that there was a conspiracy by Carney and Zivic to sabotage Burley's career. Whatever the true story is, Burley had only six bouts during that period of time with his career seemly going nowhere.

According to Havey Boyle's Mirrors of Sport column in the November 25, 1941 edition of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on the Newspapers.com website, Charley Burley's contract was sold to one Bobby Eaton of the Midwest by Burley's previous manager of record, Irwin "Itchky" Silverman. The purchase price was not announced, but it was believed that it was less than the $1,400. that Silverman paid to purchase the contract from Philip Goldstein. With Eaton purchasing his contract, Burley was planning to move to Minneapolis.

Note- When Burley was fighting in Minneapolis during late 1941 and early 1942, a veteran boxing man named Tommy O'Loughlin was the boxing promoter in the city. Before late 1941, O'Loughlin managed a number of boxers who fought in Pittsburgh, including Babe Synnott, who fought Burley in the latter's first bout during 1941. That bout also was the first bout that Burley had with Silverman being his manager of record. O'Loughlin appears to have become Burley's manager sometime in late 1942 or early 1943. He would manage Burley as late as 1945.

- Chuck Johnston

[Chuck1052]

After his contract was sold to Bobby Eaton by Irwin Silverman during November 1941, Charley Burley moved with his family from Pittsburgh to Minneapolis. On the surface, it seemed that Burley started to do better afterwards. After having only six bouts from December 1940 to the beginning of December 1942, he would go on to have a total of twenty-five bouts during a period from December 1941 to the end of June 1943 (two bouts during December 1941, seventeen bouts during 1942 and six bouts during the first six bouts during 1943).

Despite facing a number of club fighters or journeyman in those twenty-five bouts, Burley also fought an impressive number of top fighters during that time, including Holman Williams (a total of five times), Ezzard Charles (twice), Lloyd Marshall (once), Jack Chase (once), Aaron "Little Tiger" Wade (once), Cocoa Kid (once) and Shorty Hogue (once). Among the journeymen that he faced during the period were Bobby Birch, Harvey Massey, Jackie Burke and Big Boy Hogue. When Burley was fighting in California much of time, there were an impressive number of other top black middleweights fighting in that state on a regular basis, including Wade, Marshall, Chase, Williams, Archie Moore and Eddie Booker. For various reasons, Burley never fought Booker.

Burley probably didn't make that much money from those twenty-five bouts, certainly not in his seven bouts in Minneapolis. While Minneapolis had been a terrific fight town in the past, the fight game took a massive hit in the city during the Great Depression. When Burley fought there during 1941 and 1942, the gates of fight shows were usually less than $2,000. at the Armory, sometimes less than $1,000. The shows must've had low ticket prices because the attendance had to be about 3,000 to have a gate of about $2,000. Even a highly popular fighter such as Fritzie Zivic drew a gate of only about $2,200. for one of his bouts with Reuben Shank in Minneapolis during 1942.

The following gate figures for Burley's seven bouts at the Armory in Minneapolis were found in the Minneapolis Star:

Dec. 13, 1941- Ted Morrison...…………………………….TKO-2 Gate- "About $1,100."
Jan. 9, 1942- Shorty Hogue...……………………………KO-10 Gate- $1,400., Attendance- 2,000
Jan. 23, 1942- Jackie Burke...…………………………….TKO-5 Gate- "Less Than $1,000., Attendance- "Small Crowd"
Feb. 26, 1942- Holman Williams...……………………..W-10 Gate- "Around $1,500."
Mar. 13, 1942- Jay Turner...…………………………………..TKO-7 Gate- "About $1,600."
Apr. 10, 1942- Cleo McNeal...………………………………..KO-5 Gate- "Less Than $1,000."
Apr. 30, 1942- Sammy Wilson...………………………….KO-2 Gross Gate- $3,416.22, Attendance- "About 5,000."
Note- Sugar Ray Robinson and Reuben Shank fought Dick Banner and Bobby Berger respectively on this show, which essentially featured three main events. The fans seemed to think that Robinson stole the show when he knocked out Banner in the second round. This was the second time that Robinson and Burley fought separate opponents on the same show.

Shortly after fighting Wilson, Burley reportedly was thinking about going back to Pittsburgh and breaking off relations with his manager, Bobbie Eaton, and Promoter Tommy O'Loughlin. But according to a news item in the May 5, 1942 edition of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, Burley had changed his mind. He said that he was mad at both Eaton and O'Loughlin after he received a purse of $150. for his bout with Wilson while Robinson received a purse of $1,000. for fighting Banner on the same show. Burley felt that he was as good as Robinson and was ready to fight him.

According to an interesting news item in the May 4, 1942 edition of the Minneapolis Star, Bobbie Eaton, Burley's manager, said that Burley was throwing away $2,250. that he would earn in May by walking out on Eaton. Eaton added that Burley would have earned $500. out of a $700. purse for a bout in San Diego on Friday (May 8, 1942), $750. out of a $1,000. purse for a bout in New York City on May 22 and $1,000. out of a $1,500. purse for a bout in Pittsburgh on May 25. The scheduled bout in New York City on May 22 was suppose to take place in Madison Square Garden. When planning to leave Eaton and go back to Pittsburgh, Burley said that he was willing to go through with only the scheduled bout with Ken Overlin in Pittsburgh on May 25. He also said that he had not made any money in Minneapolis.

Note- Burley probably was offered a bout at Madison Square Garden when he knocked out Phil McQuillan in first round at another storied New York City venue, St. Nicholas Arena, on April 20, 1942. But his bout with McQuillan was the only one that Burley had in New York City, which also means he never fought at Madison Square Garden. Burley knocked Joe Sutka in the fourth round at the Coliseum in Chicago four days after his bout with McQuillan. Ironically, Burley's bout with Sutka was the only one that he had in Chicago during his career. After his bout with Wilson in Minneapolis on April 30, Burley didn't fight until May 25 when he faced Ezzard Charles, a young substitute for Ken Overlin, at Forbes Field in Pittsburgh. Charles won a ten-round decision in the bout.. Charles also won a decision after ten rounds in a rematch with Burley at Hickey Park in Millvale, Pennsylvania on June 29, 1942. While the first bout between Charles and Burley was a good one, the rematch was a dull one largely due to Burley's uninspired performance.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

The Chee Chee Club

Oh this was years ago. This was right after Sid Flaherty brought Denny Moyer down from Portland to keep an eye on Ronnie Wilson. Both fighters were under Sid's care. Wilson's career seemed to be hitting all the bumps in the road lately.He had lost twice to Mike Quarry and that was keeping him from moving up in the light heavyweight ranks let alone being offered a title shot Flaherty had kept him plenty busy. He was fighting it seemed every two,three weeks That was part of his problem. Wilson was wearing down. He also had problems with cuts around his eyes. As soon as the scabs fell off Sid had him signed to fight again. Ronnie was a very popular fighter in San Diego,especially at the start.He started off with 20 straight wins before losing in an upset to Terry Lee. That fight took place at the Circle Arts Theater in Kearny Mesa. I saw the fight.Lee cut Ronnie early in the fight.I thought they might stop it because of that,but Ronnie was very popular like I said and the ref and the doctors let it go the 10 rounds.I don't know if that was Ronnie's first bad cut,but once a fighter gets cut bad especially in a certain region of his eyes, the problem doesn't go away.

Between the Silver Slipper Hotel in Las Vegas,the Olympic Auditorium,and more fights in San Diego Wilson racked up another eight straight wins before losing to a very slick Gene "Honey Bear" Bryant at the Silver Slipper. Again Ronnie was bleeding from around the eyes.Ronnie was in the gym everyday or at Flaherty's training facilty in the foothills in Lyons Valley in east county. Flaherty ran things there with his soulmate Danny Rodriguez.They also had a kennel of Malamute dogs that sometimes I think they looked after better than their fighters. Besides Wilson being unsuccessful against LA fighting idol Mike Quarry and the cuts around the eyes,Ronnie lacked a knockout punch that could get him out of a jamb and turn things around in a hurry. Ronnie was once rooming with a paisan of mine named Pat Vetere.They once shared an apartment in North Park. Pat was second in charge of the employees union for San Diego County workers.That was how I got introduced to Wilson. Pat and I would go down to the Coliseum and mess around with some of the other fighters when they needed some work. Wilson was originally from Canada.Burke Emery ,the ex light heavyweight was training fighters there along with his prize possession ,another Canadian boy,Art Hafey. Burke would also work with Wilson. But Like I mentioned ,Wilson's progress was stuck in the mud so to speak. He was being matched with guys he'd already had an easy time with.He was scufflin' to make ends meet.He was married to a real nice gal and they had a young son. Sometimes I'd see her at the fights with the baby.It was around the time of Wilson's second loss to Mike Quarry that he was starting to frequent the local watering holes as much as the gym. That's when Flaherty got on the phone to another of his fighters,Denny Moyer.

Moyer was to come down from his hometown Portland ,Oregon to San Diego not only to conitinue fighting,but to take Ronnie Wilson under his wing.Moyer had been fighting for more than 10 years when he arrived to sunny San Diego. Like Wilson,Flaherty had Moyer in the ring every fortnight it seemed. Denny Moyer came up at a time in the mid 50's when the welterweight division was loaded with good fighters:Emile Griffith,Benny Paret,Don Jordan (who he couldn't beat to win the title),Johnny Saxton,Gaspar Ortega,Jorge Fernandez,Virgil Atkins,Vince Martinez,and Paddy Demarco to name some of them. He also had a win over an aging Sugar Ray Robinson. Moyer went up in weight and beat Joey Giambra for the junior middleweight crown. Like Ronnie Wilson ,Denny Moyer was a beautiful boxer. He moved his feet,slipped punches,and could see what was happening in front of him.,Moyer also didn't hit very hard.When he needed an out punch it wasn't in his gloves. But bringing Denny Moyer into camp with Ronnie Wilson was like throwing gasoline on the fire.


By the time Moyer arrived in town he had the looks of a fighter who'd taken as much as he had given. He had lost that "baby face".He was a little puffy.The skin tone was chalky.He finish his career with way over 100 fights. He'd even fight Monzon in Italy for a chance at Carlos's crown. But by now Moyer was the once good fighter who was stepping down the ladder and was being put in there with the young good fighters climbing up the rungs.He'd have his successes and failures

When Moyer and Wilson got together the symbiosis was immediate. That association was adhered by bottle and bond.Both guys were like a lot of fighters when they weren't drinking.They both we e quiet,preoccupied. They seemed detached. But once they got to the bar the light switch would flip on soon. Pat Vetere and myself had finished up pretending to be fighters one afternoon at The Coliseum. Moyer and Wilson were finishing up their workout. They wanted to know if me and Pat wanted to tag along to bend some elbows. Why not? I think it was my idea selecting a bar near the Coliseum called the Chee Chee Club. It was near the corner of 10th and Broadway. It was one of those places i'd driven by a hundred times and was always curious about what it looked like on the inside.It was a hole in the wall joint back then. A bus stop was at the curb. The area was full of winos and assorted street people. There was always trash on the sidewalk and yesterdays newspapers blowing around when the buses would pull away from the bus stop.The Chee Chee Club fit in with its surroundings:kind of dismal and bleak.


Inside The Chee Chee Club there was nothing that the San Diego Tourist Bureau would put in their brochures. A small bar to the right as you walked in .some booths opposite from the bar.The upholstery was patched up in places with duct tape. The linoleum was coming up in spots.Everything was stained by tobacco smoke. They kept the lights low to complement the interior and the mood.The Chee Chee Club wasn't one of those bars that served anything exotic. I didn't see a blender and if you asked the bartender(didn't see any floozy girls in back of the bar) to make Manhattan he'd tell you to go to the airport and get on the next jet to New York.

The four of us stared with beer and eventually was chasing it with shots of bourbon. Pretty soon the light switches flipped on.Wilson was the first to start loosening up.
"Which one of you two was talking to my wife?,"Wilson looked at me and Pat, his white tone turning crimson.
I looked at Pat. He was shifting his weight on the bar stool.
"Oh yeh.She wanted to tell me something that's all,"stammered Pat.
"She called you on the phone so she could spill her guts out ," Wilson said his jaw tightening
"It was nothing Ronnie.Pat told me what happened,"I said trying to rally to Pat's aid.
"You stay out of this,"he snapped.
Moyer was drinking his whiskey and beer like nothing was happening.
"She told you about me.You think she wouldn't come runnin' back and tell me what happened? I'm gonna' take you outside and kick your ass."snarled Wilson.
Moyer ordered another beer /bourbon combo
"If I ever see you around the gym you better be wearing some gloves."
"OK.I didn't mean anything ,"said Pat weakly.
Moyer came up for air .
"Why don't you two beat it for now,"he said matter of factly.
"Sure,"I said. "No problem."
Me and Pat stepped outside .A bus had just took off and blew exhaust smoke and papers in our faces.
"Thanks for trying to stick up for me,"said Pat.
"What did Wilson's wife talk to you about?I asked him.
"The usual.You know."
"Well,you were lucky Moyer told us to leave when he did."
"Maybe that's why Sid brought him down from Portland,"said Pat."To keep me from getting my ass kicked."


Denny Moyer


The Chee Chee Club

[goose 5]

Great post about Moyer and Wilson. Life got really bad for both in their later years.

[dagosd2000]

Great post about Moyer and Wilson. Life got really bad for both in their later years.

Thanks Goose
If you click onto Wilson's picture on BoxRec it will take you to his backround. Click onto the blog at the end of the paragraph. Very sad indeed. I was thinking of going to Vancouver to see if I could find him,but he died soon after.

[dagosd2000]

Taking A Little Off The Top

Just Off the top Of My Head:Yesterday when I listed some of the top welterweights that Denny Moyer had been in the ring with,I left out Luis Rodriguez.He should have been first on the list,especially I think if Moyer had been asked to put together an opponent roster.In the gym I overheard him say that when he fought Luis that he was one step ahead of him all during the fight.Prior to Moyer's fight with Rodriguez ,Denny had lost some close decisions to guys like Ray Robinson,Ralph Dupas,and Emile Griffith,but the Cuban had administered a beat down to the Portland fighter. It was the first time Moyer had been stopped. Rodriguez floored him twice before it was waved off and made Moyer look unusually inept.

There's a very famous weightlifting gym still around in San Diego,Leo Sterns Gym located in North Park. At one time Leo trained future Mr. Universes Clancy Ross,Bill Pearl,and Eddy Silvestre.That's going back some,early 1950's. I worked out there for a spell in 1986.Leo was still around.He had his old crony Gene Fisher running the gym. It was a gym for "men only." Gene's wife ,Betty,had her womens counterpart down the street. When I was exercising at Sterns there were still a lot of elite bodybuilders and powerlifters throwing the iron around. Shooting up steroids was out in the open. i'd see guys sit on a bench before a lift and stick the needle in their arms. I never "shot" steroids,but I used the stuff that was sold over the counter at certain health food stores,androstene and andriol. I didn't know they were roids.I thought because they were sold in a health food store they were just a radical kind of vitamin. But it wouldn't have mattered if I knew that they were later to be classified by the FDA as steroids and pulled off the shelves.The stuff worked. When an athlete is making "gains" as the result of using PED's he doesn't concern himself with the legalities or the moralities.I once asked Leo if any fighters had trained at his gym.He said no. Fight trainers were the last ones to come around to making their charges lift any barbells. It's still not a high priority to boxing training regimens.I used to hear Joe Louis say that weightlifting would make a fighter musclebound. The size of one's biceps has little correlation regarding the power he can deliver with his punch.


Jackie Nava,La Princessa Azteca,fighting out of Tijuana was to have had a fight a few months ago but it fell through for some reason. I don't see any upcominf fights on her agenda when I searched the BoxRec schedule. She's 38 years old. She's been in over 40 contests. She got a title belt. I hope she's had her fill with fighting. I'm not into female boxing or MMA.Call me old fashioned. Jackie Nava seems to be an antithesis to such a brutal sport. Don't get me wrong,she can fight. She has extraordinary skills,but I wince every time I see her get hit in the face.If I had a man crush on Mantequilla Napoles,I have a female crush on Jackie Nava. :lol



Jackie Nava,the Aztec Princess



Leo Sterns Gym. It's still going strong..I go up there from time to time. They still have the old black and white pictures on the wall of Pearl,Ross,Silvestre,Oliva,Columbo,Ferrigno,Arnold,powerlifter Pat Casey. The only thing that's different is that the split tails work out there now. Their money is as good as the men's.

[goose 5]

Willie Pastrano was a dedicated weightlifter during his career but he kept it hidden from Angelo Dundee.

[dagosd2000]

Willie Pastrano was a dedicated weightlifter during his career but he kept it hidden from Angelo Dundee.

Didn't know that Goose.BTW,he couldn't break an egg.