When Did Mike Tyson's Prime End?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Tyson's peak ended after Spinks fight. He just started to decline technically. Phisically he was is his prime until 1997 (second Holyfield fight). Against Botha he looked awful before landing that huge right hand. I think it was the first time he looked clearly past his prime phisically - he was way slower than he was before.

He was behind on the cards in that fight.

[oogiebe]

What those Tyson fans can't accept is he was not an instinctual fighter. His head movement was part of the programmed attack. The givens stuff annoys me to no end. In relationship problems I've encountered working out was the one release of positive energy I could count on. Being able to punch someone would make it even better. No Tyson beats that Douglas.

You know what? You make a great point. It actually makes me re-think my views on Tyson. When the program got interrupted, he was lost. Bravo!

[Onetimeonly]

Don't get me wrong, it was a destructive program. But all the Rooney, head movement, etc.. is hogwash. That's why so many people mistake him for an inside fighter. He had a couple awesome programmed combos like the right to the body and right uppercut to the head but then he just fell into a clinch.

[BoxBuzz]

When he stopped believing in himself. Probably his induction into prison. Has to shatter anyone psychologically. Loss of freedom.....it's huge.

[oogiebe]

Don't get me wrong, it was a destructive program. But all the Rooney, head movement, etc.. is hogwash. That's why so many people mistake him for an inside fighter. He had a couple awesome programmed combos like the right to the body and right uppercut to the head but then he just fell into a clinch.

I get you. It hadn't occurred to me how scripted his movements were. That explains why he would always oblige a clinch. I always knew he didn't have much of an inside game, but what he did well gave him no "out" when his opponent would clinch. So he gave in. Seriously great points.

[APerno]

What those Tyson fans can't accept is he was not an instinctual fighter. His head movement was part of the programmed attack. The givens stuff annoys me to no end. In relationship problems I've encountered working out was the one release of positive energy I could count on. Being able to punch someone would make it even better. No Tyson beats that Douglas.

You know what? You make a great point. It actually makes me re-think my views on Tyson. When the program got interrupted, he was lost. Bravo!

All true but it applies to any fighter - you can see the affect of a well run program in any sport - The Patriots, the Packers of the 1960s - the Yankees of the late 20s and most of the 30s, and then again in the 50s, early 60s, and then the late 70s, and then the late 90s - please stop me . . .

On a more serious note -- when I wrestled in high school by the time you got the regional championship final round there were 24 wrestlers representing 64 schools X 12 weight classes for a total of 768 wrestlers. Two schools dominated the region and of the 24 finalists it was not uncommon for 8 to 11 to come from just two programs - and this would repeat itself year after year - wrestling like boxing is an individual's sport, so why such dominance by two schools? -- all the kids were drinking from the same water supply so that's not the answer - so it must of been the programs they came out of - "prime" is a relative term to what opportunities an athlete has - Tyson's problems were all mental and you guys keep looking for a physical/skills answer that is not there - the man once replied when asked about his troubles with Robin Givens(sp) - " I try not to take an interest in my private life" -- I wish I was making that quote up but I'm not - the man was an emotional train wreck and his slide had nothing to do with being in or out of his prime it had nothing to do with fading skills - with the right people around him he had the skill set to beat anyone on any given night even as late as the 2000s - but he also had the mental instability to bite someone, and that is what defined his career- the question about his "prime" is purely relative to his mental state at any given moment - IMO his title was gone once the old basted Gus died he should have just laid down and taken the count then

[APerno]

I just realized I should have said when Jimmy Jacobs died not Gus ... Jacobs was holding Tyson together

Ever read about this guy's handball career? The guy was "the greatest"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Jacobs_(handballer)

[Onetimeonly]

He didn't have a high ring iq, that's what I'm saying. That's precisely mental. That's my point.

[APerno]

He didn't have a high ring iq, that's what I'm saying. That's precisely mental. That's my point.

I probably didn't say it well I was agreeing with you; I feel trying to evaluate his physical skills is pointless; once the original crew was gone he never had anyone around him who wasn't a predator looking to gain from him. He was incapable of guiding his own career and I mean inside the ring. I suspect in the second half he probably never even studied films of his opponents; just repeating the same mistakes over and over.

I suspect that Tyson and Ali were at polar ends when it came to ring IQ.

Doc Kearns always claimed that if he had been in Dempsey's corner he would have beaten Tunney. Hard to say, but Dempsey always said he would never have become a champion if he hadn't met Kearns, and he was't talking about his promotional connections, (at the time Kearns was as unknown as Dempsey) but that Kearns help make him the fighter he became. Dempsey was a really nice guy, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

He kept repeatedly signing for fights Kearns and Rickard had to legally get him out of; he once took a $20 guarantee to fight Harry Wills in '26. I didn't miss type that , he took a $20.00 check as a guarantee with the "promise" of $800,000 and then signed the contract. The promoter didn't have any money.

Tyson lost all those people early on and there was no one to teach him how to win the fights in front of him

[Onetimeonly]

[Ambling Alp II]

Tyson's performances between Douglas and prison:

Tillman -(Comparable to Spinks)
Stewart - (Comparable to Williams)
Ruddock I - (Comparable to Biggs)
Ruddock II -(Comparable to Tucker)

He's was the same fighter during this period as he was pre-Douglas.

[APerno]

Are you saying it was prison that ruined (faded) him or the three year lay-off? Or just father time?

[Ambling Alp II]

Mostly the three year layoff is what contributed to his decline. That is a long time. He still had a lot left when he came back, but was not not quite fighter he once was. I thought he lost his desire after losing to Holyfield. He didn't seem to want to go the extra mile. His competition between Holyfield and Lewis was weak and he was gradually declining by the Lewis fight due to both age and his lack of desire.

But I think if people go back to the fights with Tillman, Stewart, and the two with Ruddock, they will see that they were similar to his fights from the mid-1980s to Douglas.

[elmersalsa]

So, are we agreeing that Iron Mike's prime was over when he got out of jail? That seems fair enough. Tyson's prime for me was between 1986 to 1991.

I believe that he was prime against Buster Douglas. He just didn't trained properly for that night in Tokyo. But, I believe also that that Douglas beats any version of Mike Tyson.

A well-prepared Tyson vs Douglas of that night in Tokyo would have been much more competitive. But, Douglas would have beaten him anyway. He had the attributes, the style and the blueprint to beat Tyson.

[APerno]

So, are we agreeing that Iron Mike's prime was over when he got out of jail? That seems fair enough. Tyson's prime for me was between 1986 to 1991.

I believe that he was prime against Buster Douglas. He just didn't trained properly for that night in Tokyo. But, I believe also that that Douglas beats any version of Mike Tyson.

A well-prepared Tyson vs Douglas of that night in Tokyo would have been much more competitive. But, Douglas would have beaten him anyway. He had the attributes, the style and the blueprint to beat Tyson.

Interesting . . . I can agree that a better prepared Tyson would have still lost to Douglas, Douglas was a man possessed that night and always had the size and skills to beat Tyson, (just usually not the right mind set, see Tucker fight) but you realize that if Tyson had been better prepared and gone the distance with Douglas, they may very well have jobbed Douglas out of the decision. It was a MD at the time of the stoppage and that was only because the two idiots had to have given Douglas the 9th, otherwise he would have been losing a SD -- only one judge had the fight scored correctly IMO.

[APerno]

Mostly the three year layoff is what contributed to his decline. That is a long time. He still had a lot left when he came back, but was not not quite fighter he once was. I thought he lost his desire after losing to Holyfield. He didn't seem to want to go the extra mile. His competition between Holyfield and Lewis was weak and he was gradually declining by the Lewis fight due to both age and his lack of desire.

But I think if people go back to the fights with Tillman, Stewart, and the two with Ruddock, they will see that they were similar to his fights from the mid-1980s to Douglas.

I don't know about 'prime' and such but I agree, after Holyfeild I, I would go into watching his fights expecting him to lose, it just seemed like he was finished, and it turned out he was. After Holyfeild I he could not longer beat top tier fighters, he was at the bottom of the top.

[HeavyHitters]

After he had fired Rooney. The 1st Bruno fight had already shown some troubles.

I agree with this. His ego and disdain for Kevin Rooney began after Rooney confronted Tyson about messing around with Kevin's niece. And soon after, the Tyson Camp parted way with Rooney.

If Tyson had kept Rooney on, he might have been able to pull of that fight against James "Buster" Douglas. Don't get me wrong, Douglas was a highly motivated fighter that night, and fought an almost perfect fight up until the 8th round. With Rooney in his corner, perhaps Tyson wouldn't have taken as much punishment as he did thru the first 7 rounds, and might have been able to close the show with a TKO.

Rooney knew what he had in Mike Tyson, and knew his strengths and weaknesses very well. Once that bond was severed, I believe that is when Tyson started to declined from his prime.

[HeavyHitters]

I'm not sure if any version of Tyson would be able to beat that version of Douglas. Buster was excellent fighter - big, tall, skilled, he had amazing jab, right and left hooks, great right uppercut and absolutely fantastc streight left hand which he threw from the southpaw stance. He also KO'ed (or knocked down) Mike Williams with the same punch. Douglas also put great combinations mixing body/head punches extremely well. Fast-handed and heavy-handed too. He was extremely gifted and talented fighter, but also really lazy one.

Yes, I agree. "THAT NIGHT", Douglas fought the best fight of his career! I've always thought, the "Buster Douglas" "THAT NIGHT" 'might' have been able to beat any heavyweight, ever!

[Ruthless-RKO]

Seems to be a lot of Tyson threads these days.

[margaret thatcher]

Seems to be a lot of Tyson threads these days.

I wonder who started them

[Ruthless-RKO]

Seems to be a lot of Tyson threads these days.

I wonder who started them

I only started the one.

[margaret thatcher]

I wonder who started them

I only started the one.

Look again

[Ruthless-RKO]

I only started the one.

Look again

Which one?

[margaret thatcher]

When Did Mike Tyson's Prime End?
by Ruthless-RKO

Mike Tyson | Ranking his Best Wins/Performances
by Ruthless-RKO

Mike Tyson: Best win?
by Ruthless - RKO


you even bumped one of them today bruh

[Ruthless-RKO]

When Did Mike Tyson's Prime End?
by Ruthless-RKO

Mike Tyson | Ranking his Best Wins/Performances
by Ruthless-RKO

Mike Tyson: Best win?
by Ruthless - RKO


you even bumped one of them today bruh

Oh yeh. Shït ur right.

There’s a reason I bumped one. Someone else bumped the other. Seeing a lot of Tyson hate recently.