Fulton, Langford, Norfolk, Jeannette, and Mcvey are wins against very strong fighters. Much better than friggin' Oquendo (even if you do have him winning, is that impressive? . . .Ruiz beat Fres much more decisively), McCline, and Tua.Decagon wrote:Jimmy Young also lost a lot of his fights against top fighters. Baer lost to a guy making his pro debut.dempseyfire wrote:Chris Byrd over Jerry Quarry, Willis, Langford, Baer, and the omitted Jimmy Young (who beat a much more impressive list of fighters than Byrd)??
And don't complain about Byrd's competition when you're hyping Wills, whose best wins were over Fred Fulton, Gunboat Smith and a couple of aged fighters from the early 1900s.Some people can't face facts. Byrd did beat Vitali Klitschko. Byrd did beat Fres Oquendo (I didn't score it for Oquendo). Byrd did beat Jameel McCline. Byrd did beat David Tua. Byrd did beat Evander Holyfield, who was coming off a win over Hasim Rahman. Byrd did beat Mo Harris, who was much better than his record suggests.dempseyfire wrote:Byrd's one clear win over a proven top contender was vs Tua. After that he has some wins over underachievers who typified why the division got so bad in the 21st century. I can think of many HW contenders who fought and beat tougher comp than Byrd.Klondike is, of course, the greatest heavyweight who ever lived, and this is just a list of fighters that could possibly challenge him. Muhammad Ali isn't the #1 heavyweight of all time; he's the #1 contender to Klondike's title, which he shares with Big Bill Tate.Collins2000 wrote:But where is Klondyke? I know for a fact that you have been told over and over again that he is far better than Foreman and Holmes.Good point. For way too long, I've been overrating Shavers based on his performance against Muhammad Ali. For years, I've been thinking of him as an uncrowned World Heavyweight Champion, while ignoring similar credentials Jimmy Young could hold. Worse yet, I always rank fighters based in part on how consistent they were, and I'm judging Shavers based on his best performance, rather than on his career as a whole, which is going against my philosophy for ranking fighters.Collins2000 wrote:Plus I'd have Quarry over Shavers.... and not just because he overwhelmed him easily.
Both men never met a man in the professional ring that they couldn't get the better of. Ibeabuchi beat two men in my top 40. Bowe's only loss as a pro was VERY controversial, although people don't like talking about it, since Bowe is such a jerk.wouter wrote:Decagon, could you explain what Bowe has done to be rated #14 and Ibeabuchi #30?
Basically, I came to rank Bowe so high because I kept moving people around, based on head-to-head and accomplishments. Were the fighters Bowe beat worse than the fighters, say, Jim Jeffries beat? Or the heavyweights Gene Tunney beat? Actually, you've almost convinced me to put him at #13 and Tunney at #14. I do hate having Bowe that high, and I don't think he deserves it, but who else does? I see people ranking Floyd Patterson over Riddick Bowe. That makes me shake my head.I simply can't find it in myself to rank Sam Langford very high. Although Barry thinks that Klondike and Big Bill Tate were "as solid as" Larry Holmes and George Foreman, Langford didn't beat good enough heavyweights for me to rank him.pundit wrote:The top 10 or so are OK, but Chris Byrd above a legend like Sam Langford (and way above both Klitschkos who clobbered him from pillar to post)?
And Vitali Klitschko did not beat Chris Byrd. Byrd was landing solid shots right before Vitali quit. Byrd won that bout as clearly as possible. If the other guy quits, there's nothing you can say against the man who beat him. He won the match, fair and square.
Young lost a lot of early fights b/c he was basically thrown to the liosn early on. Went on a tremondous streak between 1973 and 77 in which he defeated Shavers (the draw was a sham), Lyle, Foreman, and and most believe Ali. That's ten times better than anything Byrd did. You're going to slam him in the rankings b/c he went on to fight past his best overweight and with a drug problem? If you weigh so much on head to head matchups Young should be much higher, and Byrd lower. Young although a soft puncher was a real HW, not a light HW gaining lbs to fight over 200.
And I actually see the Byrd-Klit win as more legit than most. Vitali was not dominating Byrd in the slightest. Vitali was ahead but it was a competetive fight all the way. Byrd had many more problems with Wladimir.
