BoxRec Forum HW TOP 15 Ranking update - Kabayel, Ortiz

[Onetimeonly]

I had Ortiz 5, but I'll go consensus there. Did we vote after Joyce/stiverne?

[jamamb]

kabayel to 13 (hrgovics overrrated at 14 and the git already beat chis and chis just got ktfo, ppl make too many excuses for chisora)

ortiz no change (he won wide but i thought he looked not very good, povetkin had beat hammer without getting hit so much and without getting bloodied from multiple places)

[dagilechia]

I had Ortiz 5, but I'll go consensus there. Did we vote after Joyce/stiverne?

nah because i don't think that beating Stiverne is good enough to be voted on. beating Stiverne is no much better than beating Lenroy Thomas these days. probably Kevin Johnson is a better scalp than Stiverne.

[Onetimeonly]

I had Ortiz 5, but I'll go consensus there. Did we vote after Joyce/stiverne?

nah because i don't think that beating Stiverne is good enough to be voted on. beating Stiverne is no much better than beating Lenroy Thomas these days. probably Kevin Johnson is a better scalp than Stiverne.

I don't disagree, Joyce isn't very good but I'd have him top 15.

[ewenhay]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

[jamamb]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

what about moving ahead of ranked fighters who have only beaten unranked opponents

[Onetimeonly]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

what about moving ahead of ranked fighters who have only beaten unranked opponents

Evidently your opinion doesn't matter. It's the consensus of opinion that matters and hence that is the way you're supposed to vote. Conan did not specify when thinking for yourself comes back into play.

[ewenhay]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

what about moving ahead of ranked fighters who have only beaten unranked opponents

If you want to vote that way then fine.

I thought this was a personal vote?

[Pukka Cheese]

No changes needed imo.

[Ilya Muromets]

No changes needed imo.

Same here. Looks OK to me.

[jamamb]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

what about moving ahead of ranked fighters who have only beaten unranked opponents

If you want to vote that way then fine.

I thought this was a personal vote?

im just curious as to the logic, because for example hrgovics never beaten a rated fighter, so why should beating rated fighters (kaybayels actually done that btw) be required to move above him?

i think it is a personal vote, we should vote how we think the list should best be ordered rather then being forced to follow a certan way, im just wondering about your point because i think a lot of ppl would agree with you but im not so sure

[ewenhay]

Both fought unranked fighters so neither deserve to move above any other ranked fighters as a result.

No changes required

what about moving ahead of ranked fighters who have only beaten unranked opponents

If you want to vote that way then fine.

I thought this was a personal vote?

im just curious as to the logic, because for example hrgovics never beaten a rated fighter, so why should beating rated fighters (kaybayels actually done that btw) be required to move above him?

i think it is a personal vote, we should vote how we think the list should best be ordered rather then being forced to follow a certan way, im just wondering about your point because i think a lot of ppl would agree with you but im not so sure

Yeah but the top 15 was chosen by group concensus. The two recent fights do nothing to affect that in my own personal opinion.

But the group concensus will decide. That's democracy for you!

[conan_the_cribber]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

[Enlightened-One]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

Admittedly, I've only seen him fight twice (I think), so maybe I haven't seen him at his best.

[jamamb]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

i agree pretty much with your assessment of how hes looked. although the depth in the division is low so he may even still be good enough to get around the top 15, but defo on the low end if at all.

[oogiebe]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

The Price fight never got a chance to get going as Price injured his arm and had to retire after 3. Kuzmin can give trouble to the second tier fighters from 6-15. He's fighting Joey Dawejko, who is a very tough customer. A good win here would make me think about top 10-15.

[Enlightened-One]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

The Price fight never got a chance to get going as Price injured his arm and had to retire after 3. Kuzmin can give trouble to the second tier fighters from 6-15. He's fighting Joey Dawejko, who is a very tough customer. A good win here would make me think about top 10-15.

Fair enough, I’ll admit that you know far more about Kuzmin than I do, since I’ve only seen him fight twice.

The thing is though, are you overrating Dawejko, since he regularly loses to guys that aren’t top-15 world-rated fighters?

I’ll be honest, I’m not impressed with what little I’ve seen of Kuzmin or Dawejko, but I’ve not seen enough of these guys to really formulate an educated opinion. So I’ll bow down to your superior knowledge on this matter and see how things transpire for Kuzmin in the future.

[oogiebe]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

The Price fight never got a chance to get going as Price injured his arm and had to retire after 3. Kuzmin can give trouble to the second tier fighters from 6-15. He's fighting Joey Dawejko, who is a very tough customer. A good win here would make me think about top 10-15.

Fair enough, I’ll admit that you know far more about Kuzmin than I do, since I’ve only seen him fight twice.

The thing is though, are you overrating Dawejko, since he regularly loses to guys that aren’t top-15 world-rated fighters?

I’ll be honest, I’m not impressed with what little I’ve seen of Kuzmin or Dawejko, but I’ve not seen enough of these guys to really formulate an educated opinion. So I’ll bow down to your superior knowledge on this matter and see how things transpire for Kuzmin in the future.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm saying that Dawejko is a good test for us to see how good Kuzmin might be. If he makes a statement against Joey, then he's maybe top 10-15. He's a decent fighter and Dawejko should give him a good test. Joey's tough, make no mistake about it.

[tiny_acres]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

The Price fight never got a chance to get going as Price injured his arm and had to retire after 3. Kuzmin can give trouble to the second tier fighters from 6-15. He's fighting Joey Dawejko, who is a very tough customer. A good win here would make me think about top 10-15.

Fair enough, I’ll admit that you know far more about Kuzmin than I do, since I’ve only seen him fight twice.

The thing is though, are you overrating Dawejko, since he regularly loses to guys that aren’t top-15 world-rated fighters?

I’ll be honest, I’m not impressed with what little I’ve seen of Kuzmin or Dawejko, but I’ve not seen enough of these guys to really formulate an educated opinion. So I’ll bow down to your superior knowledge on this matter and see how things transpire for Kuzmin in the future.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm saying that Dawejko is a good test for us to see how good Kuzmin might be. If he makes a statement against Joey, then he's maybe top 10-15. He's a decent fighter and Dawejko should give him a good test. Joey's tough, make no mistake about it.

Dawejko is not a contender but he is one tough son of a gun who can give very talented boxers fits.
Tough as nails

[oogiebe]

Just noting that Sergey Kuzmin is fighting on the weekend. A very, very good amateur record with lots of medals in major championships and currently undefeated. He's only fighting a journeyman, but definitely worth considering for further ranking decisions.

I could be wrong, because it’s been a while, but I seem to recall Kuzmin looking very ordinary against David Price. Perhaps he’ll improve and eventually become a world-rated fighter, but that currently seems a long way off.

The Price fight never got a chance to get going as Price injured his arm and had to retire after 3. Kuzmin can give trouble to the second tier fighters from 6-15. He's fighting Joey Dawejko, who is a very tough customer. A good win here would make me think about top 10-15.

Fair enough, I’ll admit that you know far more about Kuzmin than I do, since I’ve only seen him fight twice.

The thing is though, are you overrating Dawejko, since he regularly loses to guys that aren’t top-15 world-rated fighters?

I’ll be honest, I’m not impressed with what little I’ve seen of Kuzmin or Dawejko, but I’ve not seen enough of these guys to really formulate an educated opinion. So I’ll bow down to your superior knowledge on this matter and see how things transpire for Kuzmin in the future.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm saying that Dawejko is a good test for us to see how good Kuzmin might be. If he makes a statement against Joey, then he's maybe top 10-15. He's a decent fighter and Dawejko should give him a good test. Joey's tough, make no mistake about it.

Dawejko is not a contender but he is one tough son of a gun who can give very talented boxers fits.
Tough as nails

Exactly!

[HeavyHitters]

Here my Top Heavyweight List ( HeavyHitters ):

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Tyson Fury
4. Luis Ortiz
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Dillian White
7. Jarrell miller
8. Joseph Parker
9. Adam Kownacki
10. Joe Joyce
11. Daniel Dubois
12. Oscar Rivas
13. Dominic Breazeale
14. Tom Schwarts
15. Agit Kabayel

[Lennox]

Here my Top Heavyweight List ( HeavyHitters ):

1. Deontay Wilder
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Tyson Fury
4. Luis Ortiz
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Dillian White
7. Jarrell miller
8. Joseph Parker
9. Adam Kownacki
10. Joe Joyce
11. Daniel Dubois
12. Oscar Rivas
13. Dominic Breazeale
14. Tom Schwarts
15. Agit Kabayel

Poor list IMO

[ElJefe]

Ortiz stays at #6.

I'm torn on Kabayel. I'm happy to accept the consensus and vote on how the most recent results should change it. If I stick to that school of thought I'd move Kabayel to #14. I don't think a decision over the unranked Rudenko should move him up more than 1 position. But at the same time I'm not sure how I can vote to keep him lower than Chisora when he outboxed him less than 18 months ago. And Chisora only has a win over Takam (also unranked although maybe top 20) since then and has been knocked out.

I'm going to say Kabayel to #13.

[jamamb]

apparently when chis is outboxed it was an off night and doesnt count. it only counts if they stand toe to toe and fight him in a way that of course plays more into his style

[dagilechia]

i don't think that Chisora will stay for long on the list