Igor Vysotsky vs. Mohamed Ali!

[Ilya Muromets]

Cuban heavyweight great Teofilo Stevenson always wanted to fight M. Ali but the Cuban government would not allow it. He was convinced that he could beat Ali. Stevenson fought the Russian heavy Igor Vysotsky twice. Vysotsky beat him both times. This is why the so called world champions in the US and UK before the 1990's were really only US-UK champions, not world champions. They never fought any eastern Europeans or Russians or Cubans. Cubans are still not allowed to turn pro, but there are many Cuban ex pats now.

Now here is a sensational little bit of a fight i never knew about! Vysotsky fought Mohamed Ali for a few rounds - and totally dominated him! Ali's excuses are pathetic.

[jamamb]

i have no idea about this fight or whatever, but there were lots of excellent amateurs from cuba and soviet countries who never went pro but wouldve likely made good pros. you have to wonder about all the guys out there who coulda been contendahs (or champs)

we see them going pro more today and of course a rise in top pros from cuba and soviets

[jamamb]

it begs the question

igor vysotsky vs wilt the stilt who wins

[Controversial]

You have to take these exhibitions with a pinch of salt. For one Ali (aged 36) was sparring with another fighter first and then Vysotsky took over. Ali wasn't in shape (he was 234lbs) and it wasn't a real fight.. Ali always looked poor in sparring anyway, even when training for a real fight. Sparring and exhibitions mean very little.

[Ilya Muromets]

Wikipedia article on Vysotsky. Particular interest is his description of his fights with Stevenson. I found very short clips of one of his fights vs Stevenson on Youtube. Vys. and Stev. became long time friends. V. visited Cuba several times.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Vysotsky

[Ambling Alp II]

You have to take these exhibitions with a pinch of salt. For one Ali (aged 36) was sparring with another fighter first and then Vysotsky took over. Ali wasn't in shape (he was 234lbs) and it wasn't a real fight.. Ali always looked poor in sparring anyway, even when training for a real fight. Sparring and exhibitions mean very little.

Agreed. Never understood the fascination some people have with sparring or exhibitions. They mean next to nothing. Fighters often aren't in shape. They are experimenting. Sometimes they are wearing headgear. They usually only go some many rounds. They aren't motivated. etc. etc.

If LeBron James has a bad preseason game or a bad practice nobody cares. Should be the same with boxing.

[Controversial]

Yep, lots of fighters have looked poor in sparring and exhibitions, by all accounts Glenn McCrory sparred hundreds of rounds with Tyson, was never dropped and held his own. I doubt he would’ve lasted 2 minutes if they fought for real.

[oogiebe]

it begs the question

igor vysotsky vs wilt the stilt who wins

Dear Lord! Kaleneque

[HomicideHenry]

Depending on the time frame, it is entirely plausible Ali could lose to a guy like this. By '76 Ali was starting to deteriorate rapidly--- and around '78 he was basically gone. There was an orchestrated effort by the Ali camp for him to fight an old rival from the amateurs (who had kayoed Ali) who would be making his pro debut--- the fact Spinks, a six fight pro novice regardless of medal, made Ali look like absolute dogshit gives credibility to the notion almost anyone could have beaten him at that time.

[Controversial]

Depending on the time frame, it is entirely plausible Ali could lose to a guy like this. By '76 Ali was starting to deteriorate rapidly--- and around '78 he was basically gone. There was an orchestrated effort by the Ali camp for him to fight an old rival from the amateurs (who had kayoed Ali) who would be making his pro debut--- the fact Spinks, a six fight pro novice regardless of medal, made Ali look like absolute dogshit gives credibility to the notion almost anyone could have beaten him at that time.

The exhibition with Vysotsky was in June 1978 so after Ali lost to Spinks and before he regained the title. I agree there was every chance he could lose at that stage of his career,

[sturm vogel]

The Ali we see against these Soviet fighters was the same Ali who lost to a 6-0-1 garbage 197 lb Leon Spinks. That is the same Leon that ended his glorious career with a 26-17-3 record. Wow, Ali sure was "The Greatest". If Ali had ever fought the likes of a Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko how can we see him winning more than a round or two?

[Controversial]

The Ali we see against these Soviet fighters was the same Ali who lost to a 6-0-1 garbage 197 lb Leon Spinks. That is the same Leon that ended his glorious career with a 26-17-3 record. Wow, Ali sure was "The Greatest". If Ali had ever fought the likes of a Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko how can we see him winning more than a round or two?

Anyone with any knowledge knows Ali was way past his best in his last few years. Thats like saying Tyson was crap because Danny Williams knocked him out and Williams ended his glorious career with a 52-36 record.

[sturm vogel]

The Ali we see against these Soviet fighters was the same Ali who lost to a 6-0-1 garbage 197 lb Leon Spinks. That is the same Leon that ended his glorious career with a 26-17-3 record. Wow, Ali sure was "The Greatest". If Ali had ever fought the likes of a Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko how can we see him winning more than a round or two?

Anyone with any knowledge knows Ali was way past his best in his last few years. Thats like saying Tyson was crap because Danny Williams knocked him out and Williams ended his glorious career with a 52-36 record.

Didn't write Ali was garbage; wrote Spinks was garbage (and he was). Wrote Ali wasn't "The Greatest" and could never see him besting Lewis or Vitali. Nobody really is "The Greatest" anyway.

[Ilya Muromets]

Igor Vysotsky could have become heavyweight champ in the 1970s had he been allowed to turn pro. Here he is completely dominating Ali. He beat the Cuban great Stevenson in two fights ko'ing him in the second one. He also knocked out future heavyweight champ Tubbs..

[oogiebe]

Igor Vysotsky could have become heavyweight champ in the 1970s had he been allowed to turn pro. Here he is completely dominating Ali. He beat the Cuban great Stevenson in two fights ko'ing him in the second one. He also knocked out future heavyweight champ Tubbs..

He out sparred an aged Ali.
Beat an amateur great
Beat Tony Tubbs.
Um...means shvt.

[Woller]

We never know for sure. Jorge Luis Gonzalez had beaten Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe and Tyrell Biggs in the amateurs, but failed to reach the top as pro.

[Onetimeonly]

The Ali we see against these Soviet fighters was the same Ali who lost to a 6-0-1 garbage 197 lb Leon Spinks. That is the same Leon that ended his glorious career with a 26-17-3 record. Wow, Ali sure was "The Greatest". If Ali had ever fought the likes of a Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko how can we see him winning more than a round or two?

That garbage fighter won an Olympic gold medal. Kind of funny that you're ignoring that while you tout an amateur star with no pro experience. Vysotsky was a bad bleeder in 3 Rd fights with headgear. Even old Ali would likely bust him up. Ali would only win a Rd or 2 against vitali if that's all they fought.

[Ilya Muromets]

Russians and eastern Europeans and Cubans (Cuban population was only 9 1/2 million in the 70's but they have a great boxing training program) were not allowed to fight in the pros back then. They are now - Cuban expats anyway - and the results are obvious. It would have been no different then. Why should Ali be disparaged as "aged"? He wan his last 14 out of 15 fights (including of course his usual fake decision wins) , and he went on to regain the championship. Cuban champion Teofilo Stevenson always wanted to fight him but he wasn't allowed. He was confident he would win and many felt the same. Before the exhibition with Vysotsky Ali went to the Russian locker room and did his blustering and yelling thing. The now-glorified Ali was the one who introduced bad sportsmanship into boxing, him and his Gorgeous George act.

Vysotsky, via Wikipedia:

Teófilo Stevenson was known for two fights with Vysotsky, who defeated Stevenson twice. Vysotsky later revealed in his interview to East Side Boxing:[6]

I fought Teofilo twice. We first met at the “Córdova Cardín” tournament in 1973 in Cuba. I took the first two opponents, both being Cuban, out early. In the third, I beat Stevenson on points. Although the score was 3:2, the pace of the fight forced Teofilo to take two necessary breaks to retie his gloves. We had a saying in the USSR, “It’s easier to win the World championships than it is to win ‘Córdova Cardín’.” The second time was at a class A International tournament in Minsk, in March 1976. In each stanza, Stevenson took a count, while in the final three minutes, I knocked him out.

— Igor Vysotsky, Interview with East Side Boxing, 2006

[Nile4000]

Teo should be ashamed of himself. Imagine if Igor fought in Montreal. Maybe John Tate would have won the gold.

[Onetimeonly]

Teo should be ashamed of himself. Imagine if Igor fought in Montreal. Maybe John Tate would have won the gold.

Page beat vysotsky

[Ilya Muromets]

Teo should be ashamed of himself. Imagine if Igor fought in Montreal. Maybe John Tate would have won the gold.

Page beat vysotsky

By points in an amateur fight in the USA. We know how biased scoring is in the USA, pro and amateur alike.

From the little i have seen of him he looks terrific. Extremely aggressive like a double barreled little Marciano. His weakness was he cut easily. Teofilo Stevenson, in case you don't know, was considered pretty much unbeatable.

[cfang]

Igor Vysotsky could have become heavyweight champ in the 1970s had he been allowed to turn pro. Here he is completely dominating Ali. He beat the Cuban great Stevenson in two fights ko'ing him in the second one. He also knocked out future heavyweight champ Tubbs..

He out sparred an aged Ali.
Beat an amateur great
Beat Tony Tubbs.
Um...means shvt.

Agreed. We've got a man who beat frazier, foreman, liston, norton and dominated heavy boxing for the best part of 15 years against an amateur who fought 3 round fights, got cut easy and was beaten by a young amateur greg page. What you have to remember about these amateur guys from cuba and the ussr back then is that they are in their prime and all the guys they are beating in tournaments are kids. Ali looked to me like he'd have stopped that russian in a round or two in a real fight even then. Ali fought numerous 15 round fights against the best in the world.

[Onetimeonly]

Teo should be ashamed of himself. Imagine if Igor fought in Montreal. Maybe John Tate would have won the gold.

Page beat vysotsky

By points in an amateur fight in the USA. We know how biased scoring is in the USA, pro and amateur alike.

From the little i have seen of him he looks terrific. Extremely aggressive like a double barreled little Marciano. His weakness was he cut easily. Teofilo Stevenson, in case you don't know, was considered pretty much unbeatable.

Lol, he's a huge page fan. Teofelio Stevenson? Never heard of him. Was he a dwarf? I don't follow them.

[Ilya Muromets]

"Agreed. We've got a man who beat frazier, foreman, liston, norton ..."

______

He beat Foreman by cheating as he did in at least half of his so called wins, specially fixed ring ropes in that case (Foreman should have just backed off and waited for him to get back out in the ring and fight). In reality Norton beat Ali all three times. As for Liston, contemporary people would have laughed at you if you said he beat Liston twice, especially those who attended the so called fights.

Since hitting the pro scene in the 90s Russians and eastern Europeans have come to be a dominant force in boxing, especially in the heavyweight division. Why do you think it would have been any different then?

[sturm vogel]

The Ali we see against these Soviet fighters was the same Ali who lost to a 6-0-1 garbage 197 lb Leon Spinks. That is the same Leon that ended his glorious career with a 26-17-3 record. Wow, Ali sure was "The Greatest". If Ali had ever fought the likes of a Lennox Lewis or Vitali Klitschko how can we see him winning more than a round or two?

That garbage fighter won an Olympic gold medal. Kind of funny that you're ignoring that while you tout an amateur star with no pro experience. Vysotsky was a bad bleeder in 3 Rd fights with headgear. Even old Ali would likely bust him up. Ali would only win a Rd or 2 against vitali if that's all they fought.

Leon was a garbage pro. His boxing record is evidence as well as the video record. Leon's skills and tactics are observable. Yeah, he was garbage. And, what does that say about Ali to lose to Leon who had so little pro experience? It is not like Leon was some Lomachenko or Rigondeaux with 400 amateur wins. Yikes!!

Noteworthy how I mentioned Lewis and Vitali but you chose only Vitali in your response? Comparing Ali to Lewis or Vitali is like comparing a cruiserweight to a bonafide heavyweight. It is not fair to Ali, who was only the size of David Haye, and was known for laying on the ropes, to a Lewis or Vitali who were both super heavyweights in size and ability. Size matters in boxing: just not fair to Ali who was an excellent small heavyweight by today's standards which are obviously higher.