The Great John L ::: politics and public image

[APerno]

The Great John L as a political advocate for justice and fair play.

Harper's Weekly, 1887

Maybe the first time the newspapers portrayed a prize fighter in a positive political light (so suggests the article's author; see below for link).

John L is protecting President Cleveland from the patronage system; the greedy who seek to gain from the political spoils system.





http://movies2.nytimes.com/learning/gen ... /0416.html

[Caractacus]

Some of those detailed drawings back then Ipublished in periodicals an newspapers
give a much better picture then what a photograph could have captured back in 1880's.
BTW In John L. Sullivans 1910 memoirs that were first published in the Boston Globe ( and reprinted when he passed away) ,
Sullivan mentions in his memoirs that
Frederic Remington( who had become a famous artist by then)
had visited John L. Sullivan's training camp at Long Island New York to interview him and do some sketches of him for a major newspaper.
anyone ever locate those drawings ?
here is a link to the old drawing in question that I think may have been done by Frederick Remington.
( unfortately the original source is not credited at the Look and Learn website)
(maybe Al Perno can scan it for all us here)
https://www.lookandlearn.com/history-im ... xers?img=4

[Ilya Muromets]

John L. lifting a derailed tram back onto its tracks! I guess the tram was an urban trolley or interurban rail car. Either way, wow. I once lifted a small construction vehicle out of the sand, but that's nothing compared to what he did there!

[Brute]

I would have been more impressed if he had fought Peter Jackson.

[Caractacus]

I would have been more impressed if he had fought Peter Jackson.

he didn't fight Peter Jackson probably for the same reason that many Boxrec posters on here
refuse to have any
Donald Trump supporters over at their own house or even in their neighbourhood.
yes apparently just like many boxrec posters here,
he may have been a Nineteenth century Bigot,
so don't be acting so "High and Mighty".

[APerno]

. . . . many Boxrec posters on here refuse to have any Donald Trump supporters over at their own house or even in their neighbourhood.

Because they're Black like Peter Jackson . . . . . . . ?

LOL I don't care about this, you said you would bump up a thread about Jack Johnson's hair, what happen? -- I want to know the important stuff in boxing, like did Jack Johnson shave his head, or not?

[HomicideHenry]

Adam Pollack, who I've interviewed a few times, said that he felt Sullivan would have beaten Jackson because of styles. Jackson was a boxer-puncher, who came forward, unlike Corbett who back pedalled. Nobody ever stood up to Sullivan and ever lasted--- so it's likely Sullivan would have eventually came out on top of Jackson.

Mind you, Sullivan DID engage in discussions to fight the original George Godfrey on three different occasions. Sullivan even refereed a match Godfrey had for the 'Colored Heavyweight' title. So it's not like Sullivan was opposed to fighting black men--- just by the 1890s Sullivan was more into acting on the stage than training and fighting, which is why he announced that IF anyone could raise the money for a $45,000 winner take all bout, he'd fight them.

It was an unheard of amount of money at that time, and Sullivan thought nobody could ever raise it. When Corbett did, Sullivan had no choice but to make good on his promise. Had Jackson raised the money, Sullivan would have oblidged because otherwise he'd of been laughed out of the sport for being afraid of a black man.

Never forget, it was Sullivan who shook Jack Johnson's hand IMMEDIATELY after the Jim Jeffries fight. He wasn't the bigot people have made him out to be. Sullivan knew what it felt like to be not seen as human or equal considering the popular saying of his day was, "An Irishman is a n-word turned inside out."

[APerno]

This abstract makes it look as though Jackson believed he had a shot at Sullivan.

[Duran1970]

Never would've fought Jackson..made this clear throughout his career that he'd never share a ring with a black man no matter how much was at stake..

[APerno]

Yea I suspect Jackson went there hoping for a shot at Corbett, not Sullivan.

Corbett, racially, is an enigma. Tales of him screaming racial slurs at Johnson in Reno are legendary, yet he had been willing to fight Jackson. Strange cat!

But I agree Sullivan wasn't going to cross the color line, Corbett did at least once, but I suspect once champion he was no longer going to.

I think Jackson wasted a trip; it is curious that he was traveling with Joe Choynski.

[HomicideHenry]

Early on in Sullivan's career he was scheduled to fight a black man--- George Godfrey, September 1881, and both men stripped down and were ready to fight "to the finish" but police intervened.

Sullivan, apparently pissed by this, went to Mount Clemens afterwards and famously knocked out a local loudmouth who hit a woman.

The two men would try twice more to make the fight happen--- but it never did. Now Jake Kilrain fought Godfrey three times, 2-0-1 against him. Kilrain also fought exhibition bouts with Mervine Thompson. Now if Sullivan easily beat Kilrain, I have no doubt Sullivan would have beaten Godfrey.