Ratings - please read before commenting - Archived

[jw9170]

Is it possible for me to find out the exact points of these boxers then instead of it just saying 0?

[computerrank]

Is it possible for me to find out the exact points of these boxers then instead of it just saying 0?

They are ranked with their exact rating points.

[computerrank]

lol shut up frauline!


Abraham Montoya's record more padded than a crazy persons cell....his rank hasn't changed!...hes rated above so many, and hes fought on small hall circuit shows against bums in mexico!

you keep messing with this rankings, and they are still trash!

stick to golf

Abraham Montoya's record is padded, but with some recent success in 2018.

[oogiebe]

Yeah, saw some significant moves. I would've thought that this would have been far more subtle. Still getting my head wrapped around it.

[jamamb]

no his record is still padded. Beating guys who are 17-5, who themselves have beaten no one, and are technically worse than some journeyman shouldn't give u points. Find me anyone he beat, that ever challenged anyone of note let alone beat them.
crisitian arrazola has fought better competition than any of montoya's opponents. You cant suddenly go on some records that are 50 50 and rate them high like ruddy encarion, and not others.

Abraham montoyas paper trail is laughable.....

Youre just changing ratings because youre looking like youre trying to 'improve them'. Either do them all properly or don't bother.

caccace is another one....beats Ronnie Clarke.....beats no one else, literally journeymen....and is ranked that high. He fought ward and lost....well Mensah fought macado and lost.....look where hes ranked. COME ON NOW!

U should have kept them the way they were, boxrec keeps losing credibility because your ratings change so dramatically and so often.

#teamalex

[Manrae]

All is the same, the formula didn't change in any way, but

the only difference is the self-explaining restriction:, winners against opponents without any win or with last loss against such opponents, get no additional points now.

The effect is stunning.

This will stop the promotional and matchmaking games with worthless point transfers.

Fair play for all competitors.

Have the annual ratings been updated to reflect the new ratings algorithm?

[computerrank]

All is the same, the formula didn't change in any way, but

the only difference is the self-explaining restriction:, winners against opponents without any win or with last loss against such opponents, get no additional points now.

The effect is stunning.

This will stop the promotional and matchmaking games with worthless point transfers.

Fair play for all competitors.

Have the annual ratings been updated to reflect the new ratings algorithm?

Not yet, will come ...

[claudevsq]

Dilmaghani was moved to superfeather, but I moved him back to lightweight. I mean, he didn't make the 130 lb. limit for over 2 years, and since, he weighed in at over 133 lb. in every fight, once even over 135... I mean, 131 or 131.5, OK, but this is a little bit too much. As soon as he makes 130 again, he will be ranked at SFW.

[claudevsq]

Same goes for McCrory, who weighed in over 134 lb. in his last fight and became the BUI National champion of Ireland at lightweight. As he now holds a lightweight belt, we rank him at lightweight, at least for now. I see he has a fight scheduled in 8 weeks, announced at superfeather, so, let's wait and see...

[claudevsq]

I mean, even 132 lbs. would probably be OK, but we HAVE to draw the line somewhere... And be it alone for the sake of future opponents' health...

[BenjaminDaCunha]

Ok explain me this.
This guy 1-13-0 is ranked 795.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/687321

Me 3-4-0 Im ranked 1400.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/757303

Why??!! I just want to understand.

[GunCrazy]

Ok explain me this.
This guy 1-13-0 is ranked 795.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/687321

Me 3-4-0 Im ranked 1400.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/757303

Why??!! I just want to understand.

Because the first guy has been fighting better opponents.

[Jens S]

Boxrec is a great site. No doubt. But I think, that you should consider some points about the ratings.

There is a total of 21856 active boxers. Only 4436 have points. The remaining 17420 boxers have no point. So only about 20 % of the active fighters have points (for women it is about 15 %). Are most professional fighters total bums, that deserve no respect? I think many will see it that way. When I show casual fans boxrec, they also look at the points. And if a fighter has no points, they believe, that he is crap. And some fighters are bums, but 80 %? They may not headline fightcards in Las Vegas, but I don't think, they should be regarded as worthless. And it hurts our sport, when casual fans or casual journalists believe that a fighter is a bum, because the rankings show a 0 points. I work as a journalist, so I know that other journalists do think so. They are used to football (soccer), so the see 0 points as 0 points. And in football that equals "loser". There is no 0.1 or 0.2 in football.

If you compare with tennis, you can see the ATP rankings. The level of the rankings are from 1 (in principle 0) points to around 11000. Boxrec is topped by Saul Alvarez with 183 point. Does that mean, that Novak Djokovic is around 60 times better in his sport than Canelo? No off course not. They have just chosen a level of points, that gives credit to most any win. But only credit compared to the value of the wins.

Number 500 in the world may never have beaten anyone of note. He has 11 points, but that is just the level for a top500 player pointswise. Number 200 in the world has 255 points. The rankings really shows the difference in the respect, you should have for a player in top 200 and top 500. I think it would be fair, that Boxrec did the same. It would give transparency. Transparency gives credibility, and we really need credibility in boxing!

If a user looks at a fighters record, he or she usually wants to be able to see, which of the fighters bouts/wins were the better. But you can't at the most fighters records, because 80% is at 0 points.

Take Tervel Pulev. He is a very skilled fighter winning silver at the European championships as an amateur and bronze at the olympics. These results should of course not count as a pro, but it tells us, that he is not a nobody. He is right now ranked number 5 by the EBU and number 219 at Boxrec in cruiser. He is 12-0, 11 KO's.
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/781100

He is at 0 points, even though he beat a solid fighter, Leonardo Damian Bruzzese, in his last fight: http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/555808

Every fight Pulev has had was against fighters with 0 points after these new ratings. Bruzzese is number 248 in cruiser. Pulev is number 219 out of 1172, but both fighters have 0 points. So when you look at Pulevs record, the win against Bruzzese is considered worthless. Was it two bums fighting each other, because they had no points? No. It was a solid fight between a good prospect and a fringe contender in Europe (Bruzzese is ranked 20 in the EU-rankings).

The problem is, that Pulevs when fight against a real bum - Artsiom Charniakevich: http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/667950 - it seems to be as god or as bad as the fight against the fight against Bruzzese. But it is a fight on a totally different level.

If a fighter beats Pulev, the win will be seen as a win against a bum with no results. It is no better than a win against Artsiom Charniakevich, because they both have 0 points. You might say, that it can be seen in the rankings, that Pulev is number 219 and Charniakevich is number 1127. But we can only see that right now. In a month or a year we can't. Whether a fighter was number 219 or 1127 can't be seen on the record of a fighter, we can only see 0 point. And the ability to see the different levels of fighters on a record is a cool feature, that should give the user as much information as possible.

One of the sad things about boxing is the lack of respect for fighters. Some fans even talk about fighters in the bottom of the top10 as bums. But they are not. Those fans are probably just used to see fightcards on tv from HBO, DAZN, Showtime or that level. They probably don't see boxing live. But there are a lot of solid, skilled journeymen, that know their trade, even if they are number 200 or 500 in the world. In welterweight with more than 2000 fighters you can easily find good fighters outside the top1000.

You write: "The level decreased substantially. Especially at the non-substantial lower levels. Parpiev has 0.87 points and Dipaen hat 0.0051 points".
So one fighter has about 170 times more points than the other. But the only one who can see that, is you - the owners of Boxrec. Why not show these points? And why not change the level of points, so it shows respect for the sport and the fighters? I mean, nobody in tennis believes, that number 200 is world class, because he has 255 points. Because it is so low compared to Djokovic who has 10990. But it shows, how much better number 200 is than the player at number 500. Shouldn't number 200 in the world have the same respect in boxing?

I hope you will take this in good spirit, and give it a thought. There is no need for an instant reply. Take your time.

Best regards

Jens S

[slapbangwhallop]

I think its a REALLY bad idea to have pretty much the majority of boxers in the world sitting on zero points. Just cant get my head round the changes.

[oogiebe]

I think its a REALLY bad idea to have pretty much the majority of boxers in the world sitting on zero points. Just cant get my head round the changes.

I agree. There were a lot of drastic moves up and down, with many making little or no sense. I had a handle on the ratings, and now I'm starting from scratch.

[JCS]

Just multiply every boxer's points by 10 or 100 for display purposes. I think the additional precision is needed because of recent changes.

[oogiebe]

Just multiply every boxer's points by 10 or 100 for display purposes. I think the additional precision is needed because of recent changes.

Doesn't help the zeros, and many fighters points changed more than other fighters.

[JCS]

Just multiply every boxer's points by 10 or 100 for display purposes. I think the additional precision is needed because of recent changes.

Doesn't help the zeros, and many fighters points changed more than other fighters.

Why doesn't it?

If someone has 0.43 points now, they display as 0 now.. Multiply by 10, they'll show as 4. by 100, they'll show as 43.

Doesn't help Mr. 0.00003 but he doesn't deserve anything at that level.

[oogiebe]

Just multiply every boxer's points by 10 or 100 for display purposes. I think the additional precision is needed because of recent changes.

Doesn't help the zeros, and many fighters points changed more than other fighters.

Why doesn't it?

If someone has 0.43 points now, they display as 0 now.. Multiply by 10, they'll show as 4. by 100, they'll show as 43.

Doesn't help Mr. 0.00003 but he doesn't deserve anything at that level.

I thought you meant for readers/posters to multiply by 10. You meant the site should do it. My bad.

[computerrank]

The rating points collapsed in the lower regions due to the necessary corrections. I guess, I will make the lower rating regions more transparent.

All boxers start with 0. They have to overcome some steps to be visible.

category 1 displayed with 1 additional point:
- connected to at least one connected opponent with a win or at least a close loss within the last 18 months before and after the current date

category 2 displayed with 2 additional points:
-connected and with at least 1 win against a category 1 boxer

category 3 displayed with 3 additional points: connected and with at least 1 win against a category 2 boxer

category 4 displayed with 4 additional points: connected and with at least 1 win against a category 3 boxer and not recently lost to an opponent of category 3 or less

This will give about 50 percent of all boxers a rating of at least 1 (currently 15 to 20 percent).

[computerrank]

The discussion here should change to thread:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28051&p=5123350#p5123350

Better visability for the lower rating regions is in work.

[John]

Martin, would it help if we used log function when displaying points, eg ...


SELECT ROUND(r, -2) AS bucket, COUNT(*) AS COUNT FROM humans GROUP BY bucket


SELECT ROUND (log(r) * 100, -1) AS bucket, COUNT(*) AS COUNT FROM humans GROUP BY bucket

[Lennox]

Craig Hudson #85 heavyweight. How do you defend that ranking?

[oogiebe]

Martin, would it help if we used log function when displaying points, eg ...


SELECT ROUND(r, -2) AS bucket, COUNT(*) AS COUNT FROM humans GROUP BY bucket


SELECT ROUND (log(r) * 100, -1) AS bucket, COUNT(*) AS COUNT FROM humans GROUP BY bucket

Well that certainly clears it all up for me! LOL! (JK)

[computerrank]

Craig Hudson #85 heavyweight. How do you defend that ranking?

I will not defend it. There will be a further restriction in the required connectness to proved boxers and he might be down to #515.

Code: Select all

     1    1 Heavyweight          659461 Anthony Joshua                      UK  143.3883  124.3410 1452458931 1442458931
     2    2 Heavyweight          468841 Deontay Wilder                      US   77.0325   68.3948 1422459001 1422459001
     3    3 Heavyweight          479205 Tyson Fury                          UK   61.6580   56.0923 1462459001 1452459001
     4    4 Heavyweight          569964 Dillian Whyte                       UK   55.8942   51.9860 1432459022 1422459022
     5    5 Heavyweight          318081 Alexander Povetkin                  RU   54.1429   49.4762 1432458931 1422458756
     6    6 Heavyweight          498837 Jarrell Miller                      US   49.6025   45.7838 1422458987 1412458987
     7    7 Heavyweight          528949 Luis Ortiz                          CU   46.7159   43.2570 1412459092 1402459092
     8    8 Heavyweight          511850 Kubrat Pulev                        BG   46.4209   42.1643 1412458966 1402458966
     9   11 Heavyweight          512994 Adam Kownacki                       PL   33.7735   26.3020 1422459057 1412458917
    10   10 Heavyweight          629462 Dominic Breazeale                   US   33.6624   27.2175 1392459022 1382458609
    11    9 Heavyweight          613846 Joseph Parker                       NZ   29.9556   29.0825 1402459015 1392459015
    12   17 Heavyweight          503964 Oscar Rivas                         CO   23.5132   18.9069 1382459049 1372459049
    13   18 Heavyweight          811429 Joe Joyce                           UK   22.6185   18.7458 1392459085 1382459001
    14   13 Heavyweight          813758 Filip Hrgovic                       HR   21.7210   21.1833 1372459008 1362459008
    15   20 Heavyweight          575332 Agit Kabayel                        DE   21.1828   18.5351 1362459092 1342458777
    16   12 Heavyweight          381739 Dereck Chisora                      UK   20.7144   21.2673 1382459022 1372458875
    17   15 Heavyweight          475159 Christian Hammer                    DE   19.2841   19.9866 1392459092 1382458924
    18   25 Heavyweight          631078 Charles Martin                      US   18.7255   16.1221 1402459106 1392458917
    19   19 Heavyweight          489762 Andy Ruiz Jr                        US   18.7052   18.6510 1392458854 1382458854
    20   14 Heavyweight          451505 Robert Helenius                     FI   18.2606   20.0207 1392458938 1382458938
    21   16 Heavyweight          703923 Sergey Kuzmin                       RU   18.0823   19.1057 1352459099 1342459099
    22   40 Heavyweight          473857 Artur Szpilka                       PL   17.7045   11.3454 1392458980 1372457684
    23   21 Heavyweight          640268 Michael Hunter                      US   17.4288   18.4213 1392458994 1382458994
    24   22 Heavyweight          238766 Johann Duhaupas                     FR   16.8313   18.1570 1412458784 1402458649
    25   24 Heavyweight          643611 Hughie Fury                         UK   16.6267   17.2066 1362458966 1362458798
    26   23 Heavyweight           14883 Tomasz Adamek                       PL   16.5680   17.7743 1372458945 1372458777
    27   26 Heavyweight          489046 Lucas Browne                        AU   15.9927   15.0362 1422459092 1412459092
*   28   58 Heavyweight          804221 Efe Ajagba                          NG   15.7021    8.1083 1352459099 1342459022
    29   27 Heavyweight          529630 Bryant Jennings                     US   15.1907   14.7685 1362459049 1352458896
    30   37 Heavyweight          355273 Carlos Takam                        FR   13.9892   11.6159 1372459022 1362458469
    31   34 Heavyweight          768670 Evgeny Romanov                      RU   13.9338   12.9878 1372459084 1372459084
    32   36 Heavyweight          212248 Chris Arreola                       US   13.8382   11.9962 1382459106 1372459001
*   33   78 Heavyweight          651121 Otto Wallin                         SE   13.8266    6.6178 1352458777 1342458413
    34   47 Heavyweight          309799 Mariusz Wach                        PL   13.4084   10.0167 1372458980 1362458378
    35   44 Heavyweight          387871 Eric Molina                         US   13.3882   10.1642 1382459077 1372458546
    36   29 Heavyweight          219370 Andrey Fedosov                      RU   13.0187   13.6563 1372458952 1362458952
    37   31 Heavyweight           79357 Alexander Dimitrenko                DE   12.7779   13.5734 1352458896 1352458657
    38   28 Heavyweight          280342 Marco Huck                          DE   12.5581   14.2919 1372458833 1362458833
    39   43 Heavyweight          733157 Simon Kean                          CA   12.3761   10.4147 1312459106 1302458833
    40   45 Heavyweight          584916 Trevor Bryan                        US   12.2893   10.0908 1362458889 1362458650
    41   32 Heavyweight          655566 Tom Schwarz                         DE   12.0632   13.2609 1312459092 1302459092
    42   35 Heavyweight          594388 Kyotaro Fujimoto                    JP   11.4805   12.3895 1342458934 1342458793
    43   30 Heavyweight          741417 Petar Milas                         HR   11.4358   13.5854 1372458945 1372458945
    44   33 Heavyweight          763287 Mladen Miljas                       CA   11.2103   13.1237 1412459092 1412458636
    45   56 Heavyweight          621653 Gerald Washington                   US   10.8898    8.4576 1352459057 1352458056
    46   49 Heavyweight           32364 Samuel Peter                        US   10.4795    9.0780 1402459084 1392455815
    47   52 Heavyweight          739980 Nathan Gorman                       UK   10.2910    8.8000 1312459022 1312458959
    48   42 Heavyweight          713216 Tyrone Spong                        NL   10.2008   10.4589 1312459021 1302459021
    49   39 Heavyweight          787430 Daniel Dubois                       UK   10.1574   11.4304 1332459098 1332458945
    50   46 Heavyweight          574621 Dillon Carman                       CA    9.7463   10.0375 1342459084 1342458945
    51   61 Heavyweight          727779 Oleksandr Teslenko                  CA    9.2900    7.8195 1312459001 1302458805
    52   68 Heavyweight          324806 Bermane Stiverne                    US    9.2591    7.1314 1362459085 1362457888
    53   38 Heavyweight          545749 Erkan Teper                         DE    9.2359   11.4441 1362458938 1352458598
    54   63 Heavyweight          327656 Joey Abell                          US    9.1881    7.5469 1362458777 1362458553
    55   48 Heavyweight          716569 Jermaine Franklin                   US    8.9451    9.5784 1312458860 1302458860
    56   41 Heavyweight          630710 David Allen                         UK    8.8793   11.1825 1312458980 1302458980
    57   53 Heavyweight          775950 Ali Eren Demirezen                  TR    8.4052    8.7295 1382458938 1372458938
    58   77 Heavyweight          760653 Kristian Prenga                     AL    7.6476    6.6722 1312459015 1302458749
    59   59 Heavyweight          481634 Adam Braidwood                      CA    7.2124    8.0782 1302458833 1292458784
*   60  141 Heavyweight          664288 Adrian Granat                       SE    6.8263    4.1179 1342458777 1332458224
    61   54 Heavyweight          512687 Joey Dawejko                        US    6.8254    8.7061 1332459099 1322459099
    62   50 Heavyweight          314868 Alexander Ustinov                   RU    6.5217    8.9526 1372458994 1362458630
*   63  333 Heavyweight          692149 Zhilei Zhang                        CN    6.2616    2.9652 1342458937 1332458322
*   64  173 Heavyweight           23704 Amir Mansour                        US    6.1867    3.4769 1332459099 1322458377
    65   51 Heavyweight          483755 David Price                         UK    6.0865    8.8213 1342459022 1332459022
    66   55 Heavyweight          682283 Alexander Frank                     DE    5.9245    8.6779 1302459008 1302459008
    67   65 Heavyweight          734408 Lukasz Rozanski                     PL    5.9129    7.5401 1352458980 1342458707
    68   80 Heavyweight          396836 Tshibuabua Kalonga                  CD    5.7753    6.5132 1322458959 1312458959
    69   57 Heavyweight          426451 Edmund Gerber                       DE    5.6812    8.4557 1372458813 1362458735
    70   64 Heavyweight          814335 Frank Sanchez Faure                 CU    5.6679    7.5444 1302459042 1292459042
    71   90 Heavyweight          795843 Tony Yoka                           FR    5.6081    5.8404 1302458840 1292458840
*   72  334 Heavyweight          188315 BJ Flores                           US    5.3800    2.8009 1352458889 1342457776
    73  130 Heavyweight          261205 Alex Leapai                         AU    5.1931    4.3041 1352458882 1352457167
    74   93 Heavyweight          646375 Ytalo Perea                         EC    5.1850    5.6981 1282459021 1282459021
    75   84 Heavyweight          718566 Niall Kennedy                       IE    5.1573    6.3474 1302459106 1302458959
*   76  163 Heavyweight          497435 Mario Daser                         DE    5.1324    3.7659 1362458805 1352458237
    77  107 Heavyweight          817769 Arslanbek Makhmudov                 RU    5.0632    4.9242 1302459106 1292458994
    78   72 Heavyweight          834487 Bakhodir Jalolov                    UZ    5.0597    6.8698 1302459105 1292459008
    79  120 Heavyweight          651723 Evgenios Lazaridis                  GR    4.9319    4.4557 1292459092 1282458826
    80   60 Heavyweight          325134 Sam Sexton                          UK    4.9311    8.0385 1352458798 1352458580
    81   89 Heavyweight          813592 Ivan Dychko                         KZ    4.8813    5.9533 1342458853 1332458748
*   82  337 Heavyweight          374937 Andriy Rudenko                      UA    4.8189    2.2862 1342459092 1332458294
*   83  168 Heavyweight          352748 Victor Emilio Ramirez               AR    4.8125    3.6198 1342459071 1342457845
    84   81 Heavyweight          632393 Robert Alfonso                      CU    4.7429    6.5108 1352459077 1352458931
    85   62 Heavyweight          698932 George Arias                        DO    4.5741    7.6799 1312459092 1302459092
*   86  515 Heavyweight          625234 Craig Hudson                        CA    4.5136    0.0128 1292458917 1282456823
    87  118 Heavyweight          698269 Kamil Sokolowski                    UK    4.3889    4.5114 1282459092 1272459092
    88   99 Heavyweight          550312 Izuagbe Ugonoh                      PL    4.3680    5.2844 1292458811 1282458811
*   89  335 Heavyweight          489720 Carlos Negron                       PR    4.3369    2.6000 1302459022 1292456291
    90    0 Heavyweight          492977 Chris Cruz                          US    4.2375    0.0055 1292458882 1290000000
    91   87 Heavyweight          343636 Travis Kauffman                     US    4.2129    6.1484 1292459001 1292458827
    92  162 Heavyweight          679276 Jonathan Rice                       US    4.1916    3.7707 1292459057 1282458938
*   93  414 Heavyweight          616873 Gregory Corbin                      US    4.0029    0.5679 1322459106 1312458329
    94  151 Heavyweight          816268 Kem Ljungquist                      DK    3.8931    4.0277 1292459050 1292459050
    95   71 Heavyweight          696821 Leandro Daniel Robutti              AR    3.8053    6.8792 1302459000 1292458825
    96  114 Heavyweight          702784 Demsey McKean                       AU    3.7908    4.7670 1302459106 1292458580
    97   73 Heavyweight          173416 Kevin Johnson                       US    3.7719    6.8281 1312459022 1312458588
    98   86 Heavyweight          510397 Arnold Gjergjaj                     CH    3.7480    6.2418 1302459015 1302459015
*   99  332 Heavyweight           15726 Dominick Guinn                      US    3.7461    2.9991 1312459064 1302456634
*  100  408 Heavyweight          673904 Jean Pierre Augustin                US    3.7327    0.7177 1292459106 1282458448