McGuigan says Hatton only has 2 fights left in him

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 May 2006, 05:37

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I think that's why McGuigan is saying it too, Hatton fights a similar high octane style, but lacks McGuigan's head movement and rolling style. McGuigan did get old quick, because he had to expend so much energy in every fight to win, there were few easy victories at top level for him, and the same is true of Hatton who has been clouted by big shots by Tszyu, Maussa and Collazo repeatedly.

And Mcguigan always kept in shape between fights unlike Ricky... in his book a while back Mcguigan said of his last few fights that he trained as hard as ever for them but felt himself declining... there comes a point where the body won't take anymore...

Croydon1 · Post by **Croydon1** » 22 May 2006, 08:33

silkov wrote:
Hardhitters11 wrote:McGuigan as usual is talking utter shite.
Hatton could have another 10 fights who knows, but Barry means he has 2 fights left in him before he starts a sharp decline... and as Barry has been there and done it, and fought in a simular style to Hatton he knows what he's talking about... it may not be what some people want to hear but watch Rickys last two bouts and the writings on the wall... even Graham has started talking about Ricky retiring!...

You can't say the writings on the wall from watching his last two bouts because you would expect his latest challenges to be difficult now he is sitting around the top of the tree, compared to his earlier fights working his way up.

He is now facing tougher opponents with varied styles.... and still winning... in my opinion he has a lot more than 2 fights left in him at the top.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 May 2006, 08:43

Croydon1 wrote:
silkov wrote:
Hardhitters11 wrote:McGuigan as usual is talking utter shite.
Hatton could have another 10 fights who knows, but Barry means he has 2 fights left in him before he starts a sharp decline... and as Barry has been there and done it, and fought in a simular style to Hatton he knows what he's talking about... it may not be what some people want to hear but watch Rickys last two bouts and the writings on the wall... even Graham has started talking about Ricky retiring!...
You can't say the writings on the wall from watching his last two bouts because you would expect his latest challenges to be difficult now he is sitting around the top of the tree, compared to his earlier fights working his way up.

He is now facing tougher opponents with varied styles.... and still winning... in my opinion he has a lot more than 2 fights left in him at the top.

I don't think so, Maussa was little more than a fringe contender and Collazo is nothing special at all, he would not beat any of the top Welters such as Mayweather, Judah, Gatti etc... also look at how Ricky has been having trouble maintaining his workrate, timing off etc... Maussa should have been made for him yet it was a life and death struggle almost...
My guess is that after beating Tszyu its getting harder and harder for Ricky to get in shape and its showing in his fights if you know what to look for...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 May 2006, 08:59

I think it's more that the fighters are less overwhelmed by Hatton as they are hungrier and more determined than the opponents he had brought over for him before. Winning a belt is one thing, but now everyone who fights Hatton knows it is a shot at the big time if they win.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 May 2006, 09:10

It is a bit of that but I think a lot of the problem is what Ricky is doing in between fights... if he kept himself in shape like Wayne Mcculoch I think he'd have at least another good 3 years left in him but as it is I think he's at the begining of the end...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 May 2006, 09:15

McCulloch was also blessed with incredible genetics, that chin of his enabled him to hang tough with the very best even when outclassed. A wee bit more pzazz in his punches and he'd have been a very hard guy to beat.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 22 May 2006, 09:19

wayne is a very hard guy to beat without the pizzazz you refer to.
an extraordinary man and one we should cherish and honour on this side of the pond as one of our very best modern fighters

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 22 May 2006, 09:23

dont write off ricky hatton just yet. SILKOV wants to be known as the talisman on ricky's decline. follow him at your peril.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 May 2006, 09:41

harrygreb wrote:dont write off ricky hatton just yet. SILKOV wants to be known as the talisman on ricky's decline. follow him at your peril.

You don't need to keep quoting me mate, the autographed photo is in the post!... 8) ...actually I'm not pleased to see a decline in Ricky I'd much rather see him have the big fights and be successful another couple of years... I'm just telling it like it is as quite a few others are and have been for a while... maybe Ricky may read something and stay in shape between fights this time, hopefully its not too late...

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 May 2006, 09:48

Terence wrote:It is sad to say, as he is a very good analyist, but Barry is such a company man you have to take what he says with a dose of salt. Who knows when Ricky will give in or how long he will go on, he could be a freak who goes longer than anyonecould imagine. Wayne McCullough went on for many years but for how many years was he still a #1 fighter? Only a few fights really.

But Ricky has already shown signs of losing his stamina and pace... Wayne started losing at the higher weight because of his lack of power not because of any decline in himself... also Waynes opponents Zarragoza, Morales, Hamed... were a tad better I'd say pound for pound than Collazo... its only in the past 2 years or so in his mid 30s that wayne has really started to decline....

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 22 May 2006, 09:59

Terence wrote:It is sad to say, as he is a very good analyist, but Barry is such a company man you have to take what he says with a dose of salt. Who knows when Ricky will give in or how long he will go on, he could be a freak who goes longer than anyonecould imagine. Wayne McCullough went on for many years but for how many years was he still a #1 fighter? Only a few fights really.

Yes, although McCulloch's decline was fairly gradual, he was unable to succeed at top level past the age of what, 28? That's a guess without looking.

I don't see Ricky carrying on much past 28, he's already financially secure, and once he's had his big fights, if he senses he's in decline physically, he's going to say 'so long and thanks for all the quids.'

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 May 2006, 11:18

As I said in this post, big difference between McCullough and Hatton, is that McCullough is a consumate pro 365 days a year (or at least that is the impression) - you will never see McCullough on a cruise ship with a big gut guzzling at the guiness.

As for how far Wayne is past his prime, quite hard to say - Larios 1 is up there with his very best honourable defeats - some of which were up there with his very best victories.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 May 2006, 05:52

That's a good assessment I guess terrence. I'd say that it's likely though, that as soon as Hatton's stamina does start to fade (which given his habits between fights could be sooner rather than later), he will be in big trouble, as he doesn't have the all round game to find other ways to win.

Having said that, JC Chavez, Roberto Duran and Carlos Monzon didn't exactly treat themselves well, and all had long and very successful careers.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 May 2006, 06:40

Well for me he hasn't looked good in his last two fights, and ok he was moving up against Collazo but he was supposed to be better and stronger at the higher weight but instead looked weaker and slower and after the first 5 or 6 rounds fought mainly in bursts rather than in a steady rhythm... which are all indications of fading prowess...

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 23 May 2006, 08:16

excellent post TERRANCE. theres no way that we can say for certain that hattons declining because though SILKOV claims the slowing down at about round 5 is indicative of it, it is more probable that it is a sign of his body not responding well to the change of weight and circumstance.
you are right that the next fight will be a better barometer of hattons fortunes at 147lbs.
claiming that just because he hasnt destroyed an opponent in his last two
outings he is "on the rack" is a poor reading of the situation.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 23 May 2006, 08:17

and making these claims is a sure sign of fading prowess

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 May 2006, 11:19

harrygreb wrote:and making these claims is a sure sign of fading prowess

My point which you have obviously inadvertently missed is that Ricky was poor in his last fight against Maussa and that wasn't due to him going up in weight was it.... watch the Maussa fight and then watch the Tsyu or Oliviera bouts and tell me Ricky is fighting at the same pace with the same sharpness...
Rickys next fight will be important as we will see whether he is in a steady decline or if he can turn things around... if he stays at 147 he should fight either Gatti or Boldimir but a fight against Mayweather wouldnt be wise...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 May 2006, 11:24

In fact Hatton's worst showing was against Vilches, by quite some way.

What I did notice though and it's not to do with fading stamina, is that Hatton became frustrated against Collazo and spent a lot of time holding in the middle to late rounds. This is more about the limitations of Hatton's style than anything else.

One thing I have noticed a definite deterioration in though is Hatton's footwork, he doesn't work the angles that well any more, and seems to just thunder forward in a straight line, catching shots on the way in. He used to be so good at moving around his opponents, especially in close, but this seems to be something he doesn't do any more, don't know why.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 May 2006, 11:37

jamesmcdonnell wrote:In fact Hatton's worst showing was against Vilches, by quite some way.

What I did notice though and it's not to do with fading stamina, is that Hatton became frustrated against Collazo and spent a lot of time holding in the middle to late rounds. This is more about the limitations of Hatton's style than anything else.

One thing I have noticed a definite deterioration in though is Hatton's footwork, he doesn't work the angles that well any more, and seems to just thunder forward in a straight line, catching shots on the way in. He used to be so good at moving around his opponents, especially in close, but this seems to be something he doesn't do any more, don't know why.

Perhaps he hasn't got the zip in the legs like he used to... often the kegs are the first to go. The most glaring things to come out of his last 2 fights is his lack of accuracy, dip in pace and moments when he seems not to know what to do... it may be mental as much as physical... theres been talk of retirement etc and Ricky gives the impression to me that he doesn't relish being in there anymore and wants to get it over as soon as possible....

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 May 2006, 11:43

Bear in mind, he's facing better opposition. Even Maussa, poor as he was, was hungry and near his physical prime, and a big puncher. Tszyu was obviously a great fighter and Collazo was a natural welter at his peak and looking for big opportunities. This is a world away from beating Vince Phillips, fighting for a nice earner, Tackie, who was limited at his best, and some way past that, and fighting outgunned and physically overmatched opponents.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 23 May 2006, 12:06

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Bear in mind, he's facing better opposition. Even Maussa, poor as he was, was hungry and near his physical prime, and a big puncher. Tszyu was obviously a great fighter and Collazo was a natural welter at his peak and looking for big opportunities. This is a world away from beating Vince Phillips, fighting for a nice earner, Tackie, who was limited at his best, and some way past that, and fighting outgunned and physically overmatched opponents.

Good point, Hatton is now facing a better class of fighter. Guys who are coming to get the win rather than pick up a cheque. Pre-Tszyu can that really be said about the majority of his opponents? No.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 May 2006, 12:15

Yeah, simular story to when Mcguigan won the title... every fight became a struggle afterwards...

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 24 May 2006, 07:31

well, barry said after he retired that it was harder fighting as champion than as a challenger. its a different ball game.
but i think silkovs reading too much into the last two fights, as a poster said he didnt look good against vilches and his rise to the top hasnt been meteoric, theres been a fair few unconvincing wins...but on he goes. we are all entitled to an off night here and there. and i prefer to wait for his next bout before writing him off.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 24 May 2006, 07:40

I'm not writing Hatton off, just saying that there are warning signs. He may turn it around in his next bout but he has to improve because if he stays at his current form I can see him getting beat...

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 24 May 2006, 07:46

In Hattons defence he had a lot of legal problems leading into the Maussa fight. And this latest fight he had numerous opponents lined up, then a Lazcano fight at 140 was on then almost immediately off 7 weeks before the fight when Lazcano broke a thumb. Next thing he is moving up 7lbs to fight Collazo a big southpaw, not an easy thing to do in itself without all the messing about with opponents and then having to fight 7lbs north. So there are mitigating factors to be considered. Lets hope the next performance is top drawer.