Is Anthony Joshua among the top ten HWs since 2000 ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 28 Mar 2019, 13:34

I think - YES.
If (great IF, of course) he defeats Fury, Wilder and Usyk, he will be the #1.
Sorry, Lennox !

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 28 Mar 2019, 14:41

hes defo the best hw since lewis

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 28 Mar 2019, 14:49

I kind of struggled to put this list together, because Hall-of-Famers like Lennox Lewis didn’t compete much since the turn of the Millenium.

Also, it’s hard to evaluate the sort of fighters worthy of places 8th, 9th & 10th in the list, because the heavyweight division was either weak or sometimes the perceived “better” names didn’t face each other. Any number of fighters could’ve easily taken those slots in my list, such as:

• Hasim Rahman
• John Ruiz
• James Toney
• David Haye
• Nikolay Valuev

However, all these guys were deeply flawed in their own way (as-is Chris Byrd, Kubrat Pulev & Ruslan Chagaev).

Anyway, you guys will probably laugh at my list, but here’s my top ten since 2000:

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Tyson Fury
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Anthony Joshua
7. Deontay Wilder
8. Chris Byrd
9. Kubrat Pulev
10. Ruslan Chagaev

For the record, longevity on the world scene is one of my main criteria also (such as their world ratings between 2000 through to the end of 2018, hence the reason why Tyson Fury is rated so high).

Deontay Wilder’s rating is a tricky one, because he deserves to be rated highly due to his accomplishments ad longevity, but I’m convinced that a lot of heavyweights could’ve beaten him if they faced each other in their prime (i.e. David Haye, James Toney etc.).

Anyway, I’m looking forward to being aggressively ridiculed for my thoughts!

greg · Post by **greg** » 28 Mar 2019, 14:59

..I'll leave it to the others to take this list apart

..but I certainly agree that the longevity is one of the top factors..

lillywhite14 · Post by **lillywhite14** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:07

Longevity at world level then ranks Joshua below Povetkin and Fury

Joshuas beaten better opponents than them two have, and he’s also beaten Povetkin too!

Fury has fought two world title fights

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:11

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:07 Longevity at world level then ranks Joshua below Povetkin and Fury

Joshuas beaten better opponents than them two have, and he’s also beaten Povetkin too!

Fury has fought two world title fights

Does the context of fights not mean much to you?

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:12

lennox still had pretty good wins in the 2000s

vitali
tua
rahman
tyson
grant
botha

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:14

jamamb wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:12 lennox still had pretty good wins in the 2000s

vitali
tua
rahman
tyson
grant
botha

Yes !

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:15

Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:17

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.

He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:19

ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:17
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.
He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.

Yes, but he still has some proving ground ahead of him. Has yet to have a career defining fight. Wlad wasn't it.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:20

hes still pretty young for hw today, the only guys significantly younger arent really close to the title picture yet

wilder, fury, ortiz, pov, whyte, miller, etc are all older

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:21

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:19
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:17
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.
He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.
Yes, but he still has some proving ground ahead of him. Has yet to have a career defining fight. Wlad wasn't it.

Did I mention Wilder, Fury and Usyk in the opening post ? Yes, I did.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:23

ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:21
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:19
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:17
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.
He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.
Yes, but he still has some proving ground ahead of him. Has yet to have a career defining fight. Wlad wasn't it.
Did I mention Wilder, Fury and Usyk in the opening post ? Yes, I did.

Yes you did.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:36

oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:23
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:21
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:19
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:17
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.
He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.
Yes, but he still has some proving ground ahead of him. Has yet to have a career defining fight. Wlad wasn't it.
Did I mention Wilder, Fury and Usyk in the opening post ? Yes, I did.
Yes you did.

There are only three names (Lewis, Klitschko brothers) which have to be on this list. The rest is very questionable.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:53

ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:36
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:23
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:21
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:19
ValMar wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:17
oogiebe wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 15:15 Is he in the top 10 since 2000? Maybe. Another premature AJ poll, though, IMHO.
He (1989) is no more youngster, obviously.
Yes, but he still has some proving ground ahead of him. Has yet to have a career defining fight. Wlad wasn't it.
Did I mention Wilder, Fury and Usyk in the opening post ? Yes, I did.
Yes you did.

There are only three names (Lewis, Klitschko brothers) which have to be on this list. The rest is very questionable.

Obviously Lewis; Definitely Wlad. Vitali maybe as he didn't have the best resume. But that's an argument for another thread.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 28 Mar 2019, 15:56

the top 3 are len, josh, and wlad

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 28 Mar 2019, 16:17

1. Lewis
2. Fury
3. Wlad
4. Vitali
5. Joshua

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 28 Mar 2019, 16:40

Joshua, Fury and Wilder all are in the top 10 since 2000.
It was a pretty grim division for most of those years.
Wlad, Vitali, Lewis and Povetkin should all be in that list too.
After those 7 I have no idea. So many arguments for and against

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 28 Mar 2019, 16:45

Is this a serious question?

Is AJ the best HW since 2000 is a harder question to answer? But top 10 since then? Of course he is.

daniel_nikolov · Post by **daniel_nikolov** » 28 Mar 2019, 17:11

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 14:49 I kind of struggled to put this list together, because Hall-of-Famers like Lennox Lewis didn’t compete much since the turn of the Millenium.

Also, it’s hard to evaluate the sort of fighters worthy of places 8th, 9th & 10th in the list, because the heavyweight division was either weak or sometimes the perceived “better” names didn’t face each other. Any number of fighters could’ve easily taken those slots in my list, such as:

• Hasim Rahman
• John Ruiz
• James Toney
• David Haye
• Nikolay Valuev

However, all these guys were deeply flawed in their own way (as-is Chris Byrd, Kubrat Pulev & Ruslan Chagaev).

Anyway, you guys will probably laugh at my list, but here’s my top ten since 2000:

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Tyson Fury
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Alexander Povetkin
6. Anthony Joshua
7. Deontay Wilder
8. Chris Byrd
9. Kubrat Pulev
10. Ruslan Chagaev

For the record, longevity on the world scene is one of my main criteria also (such as their world ratings between 2000 through to the end of 2018, hence the reason why Tyson Fury is rated so high).

Deontay Wilder’s rating is a tricky one, because he deserves to be rated highly due to his accomplishments ad longevity, but I’m convinced that a lot of heavyweights could’ve beaten him if they faced each other in their prime (i.e. David Haye, James Toney etc.).

Anyway, I’m looking forward to being aggressively ridiculed for my thoughts!

I have to agree with your list. I don't know if that is the correct order but I do agree that the top 7 you picked are probably the top 7 ! The three gentlemen behind them plus the other five you mentioned are a really fine group of good boxers who never had that special combination of skills that makes one great. Although I wouldn't call Povetkin great either.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 28 Mar 2019, 18:36

Since you're talking about "Since 2000" then it's a definite yes. If you add in one more decade I'm not sure if he still makes the list, but he makes it for this century up to this point, and can still, and likely will still add to his legacy.

Contendeh · Post by **Contendeh** » 28 Mar 2019, 20:30

I think Lewis retiring was the end of an era. So it should be since Lewis retired.

Yes, Joshua is top 10/5 since then. If you argue that Joshua has surpassed Wlad already, you need to improve your critical thinking skills.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 28 Mar 2019, 23:02

Contendeh wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 20:30 I think Lewis retiring was the end of an era. So it should be since Lewis retired.

Yes, Joshua is top 10/5 since then. If you argue that Joshua has surpassed Wlad already, you need to improve your critical thinking skills.

nicely said

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 29 Mar 2019, 06:06

He’s the best since Lewis. Silly post.

How has AJ not surpassed Wlad? Parker, povetkin, whyte, all match up to wlad’s best wins. Plus AJ beat wlad himself. And hasn’t lost 5 times, or been decked 10 times. And he has an artillery outside of a jab and a right hand. And he doesn’t rely on holding. What more do you need?

I guess this is where people say ‘but....but longevity!!!’. To which I respond, do you honestly think Joshua couldn’t knock over the same line of scrubs that Wlad did? I hardly think AJ would labour to painful decisions against Jennings, ibragimov or Peter either, and we already know he didn’t need to resort to an octopus impression to beat an albeit faded but still capable povetkin.

It seems folks need to continually be reminded that wlads resume just isn’t very good for someone some people regard as an all time great.