Rigondeaux´s and Lomachenko´s fake amateur records

[locoxelbox]

Guillermo Rigondeaux´s "Official" amateur record: 463-12
Vasyl Lomachenko´s "Official" amateur record: 396-1

This Saturday we will witness a historic fight between two great world champions who are also legends of amateur boxing. Both of them having won two Olympic gold medals, two world championships and a ton of other amateur titles. Like with most amateur stars their pro promoters came up with an incredible amateur record that though virtually impossible to verify, most people accept as an official record.

In Rigondeaux´s case when he turned pro his "official" amateur record was 243 wins with 4 losses. That seemed way too few fights for an amateur veteran, specially a Cuban fighter who boxed amateur until he was 27. I happened to interview Rigo in 2007, four months before his first defection, and he said without hesitation his record was 381 wins with 12 losses. He had around 10 more wins before defecting at the 2007 Pan Am Games, so roughly his record would be 391 wins with 12 losses. When asked about his losses he didn´t remember exact names and dates but he named losses to Enrique Carrion, Angel Moya, Rencise Perez, Bekzat Sattarkhanov, Waldemar Font and Agasi Mamedov (which was his only loss in his last 250 amateur bouts).

Some years ago JMac pointed out here at the forum: "In 2001 at the world championships in Belfast, I was given a brochure on the Cuban team boxing at the worlds by the President of the Cuban boxing federation. It had a picture and bio on each boxer and at that time Rigondeaux's record was listed at 193-12".

If that record was correct then Rigo must have had 13 amateur losses as the Mamedov loss came in 2003. But how did he suddenly get some +70 more bouts added to his record recently?

Fact is most amateur boxers don´t know their exact record once they have more than 50-60 bouts. And many of them tend to "forget" about their early amateur losses. And some simply don´t count those losses which they felt were unfair...which can be quite many in some cases. Record books get lost, bouts don´t get filled in correctly or not at all, etc.

But above all, the promoters freshen up their boxers amateur records so it looks good when they build their boxers brands.

Floyd Mayweather´s 84-6 record or Gennady Golovkin´s 345-5 record are two recent examples which are very easily refuted by some clicks in a website or two. Mayweather had at least 8 losses (7 of them in his last 3 years as an amateur) and Golovkin had 8 losses when he was between 18 and 23 years old. And they never lost in their early formative years?

How about Lomachenko? I remember Loma responding in an old interview avoiding the question saying he had too many bouts to remember. Having only one loss in a long amateur career seems too good to be true as many times you have to give away weight and/or age in your early years. But as no one has stepped forward saying he has beaten Lomachenko when he was 9 or something I guess Loma is speaking the truth about that only loss to russian Albert Selimov.

But how about him having 397 fights?

Loma boxed amateur until he was 24 (not counting his WSB bouts in 2013). Rigo boxed amateur until 2007 at 27 years. I have found 165 bouts of Rigo of which 119 are in international competitions. Of Loma I can find only 82 bouts of which 68 are in international competitions. Of course there are many more fights out there to be found but still I find it virtually impossible that Loma can have the same amount of amateur fights than Rigondeaux (397 to 403). He simply cannot have had more early amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo could have gotten in Cuba. Even Loma has said himself his father took him out of the sport in his early years to do other sports.

Loma was never very active fighting internationally compared to Rigondeaux who went for long European tours with the Cuban team every year. That´s why I can find more than 50 international fights of Rigo compared to Loma. And no way would Loma have more amateur fights in Ukraine than Rigo had in Cuba as stated before.

Of course I have no proof. But my numbers and my experience of amateur boxing makes me convinced I am right. Unless someone with more knowledge proves me wrong of course.

Here are the amateur fights I have of Loma and Rigo. Thanks to Matt Mizerski, Tibor Kincses and Pedro Cabrera for their work with their amateur records. Thankful for any help in completing their amateur records.

[locoxelbox]

Rigondeaux amateur record: http://www.reocities.com/pedrinet/rigondeaux.html

Lomachenko amateur record:

60 kg – VASYL LOMACHENKO – UKRAINE (UKR)
Date Of Birth : 17/02/1988
Club : Bilgorod-Dnistrovskiy

2013 – World Series of Boxing (boxing for Ukraine Otamans) – 61 kg
Defeated Samat Bashenov (KAZ) of Azerbaijan Baku Fires 3-0 (49-45, 49-45, 50-44)
Defeated Domenico Valentino (ITA) of D&G Italia Thunder 3-0 (50-45, 50-45, 50-45)
Defeated Albert Selimov (AZE) of Azerbaijan Baku Fires 2-1 (48-47, 48-47, 47-48)
Defeated Sam Maxwell (ENG) of British Lionhearts 3-0 (50-45, 50-45, 50-45)
Defeated Charly Suarez (PHI) of D&G Italia Thunder 3-0 (50-44, 50-44, 50-44)
Defeated Sam Maxwell (ENG) of British Lionhearts 3-0 (50-44, 50-44, 50-44)

2012 – XXXth Summer Olympic Games (London, GBR) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Soon Chul Han (KOR) 19:9 in the final
Defeated Yasnier Toledo (CUB) 14:11 in the semifinal
Defeated Felix Verdejo (PUR) 14:9 in the quarterfinal
Defeated Wellington Arias (DOM) 15:3 in the first preliminary round

2012 – Nikolay Manger Memorial Tournament (Kherson, UKR) Gold medalist – 64 kg
Defeated Vyacheslav Kislitsin (UKR) 18:5 in the final
Defeated Fyodor Vinogradov (RUS) 14:3 in the semi-final
Defeated Vilen Seitosmanov (UKR) 16:3 in the quarter-final

2011 – AIBA World Championships (Baku, AZE) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Yasnier Toledo (CUB) 17:12 in the final
Defeated Domenico Valentino (ITA) 17:11 in the semi-final
Defeated Fazliddin Gaibnazarov (UZB) 18:10 in the quarter-final
Defeated Robson Conceicao (BRA) 19:18 in the third preliminary round (Originally lost 19:20)
Defeated Jose Carlos Ramirez (USA) 16:9 in the second preliminary round
Defeated Lomalito Moala (TGA) RSC 1st round in the first preliminary round

2011 – Makar Mazay Memorial Tournament (Mariupol, UKR) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Gani Zhailauov (KAZ) 18:5 in the final
Defeated Fazliddin Gaibnazarov (UZB) 25:7 in the semi-final
Defeated Soon Chul Han (KOR) AB 2nd round in the quarter-final
Defeated Mohammad Momevand (IRN) 18:4 in the first preliminary round

2011 – Nikolay Manger Memorial Tournament (Kherson, UKR) Gold medalist – 64kg
Defeated Nikolay Bochkov (UKR) AB 2nd round in the final
Defeated Denis Berinchik (UKR) 17:7 in the semi-final
Defeated Abderrazak Haouia (TUN) WO in the quarter-final

2011 – Ukrainian National Championships (Kharkiv, UKR) Gold medalist – 60kg
Defeated Dmytro Bulenkov (UKR) 8:1 in the final
Defeated Volodimir Matviychuk (UKR) 11:3 in the semifinal
Defeated Andriy Rudenko (UKR) 6:1 in the quarterfinal
Defeated Gyunduz Guseinov (UKR) 17:0 in the second preliminary round
Defeated Artem Sereda (UKR) 4:0 in the first preliminary round

2010 – Four Nations Tournament (Berck-sur-Mer, FRA) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Souleymane Cissokho (FRA) 7:0 in the final
Defeated Eric Flores (USA) 15:4 in the semifinal

2010 – Republic of Kazakhstan President’s Cup (Astana, KAZ) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Aydar Amirzakov (KAZ) 5:0 in the final
Defeated Samat Bashenov (KAZ) 13:4 in the semi-final
Defeated Assylbek Talasbayev ( KGZ) 5:0 in the quarter-final
Defeated Mahmoud Esheish (JOR) 6:0 in the first preliminary round

2010 – Ukrainian National Championships (Sumy, UKR) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Serhiy Kravets (UKR) WO in the final
Defeated Andriy Kolesnik (UKR) AB 3rd round in the semi-final
Defeated Vitaliy Mayboroda (UKR) RSC 2nd round in the quarter-final
Defeated Loma Aidarov (UKR) 11:0 in the second preliminary round
Defeated Dmytro Vedmedenko (UKR) ??? in the first preliminary round
2009 – European Students Championships (Elista, RUS) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Valeriy Pluyaskin (RUS) 4:0
Defeated Ural Karslioglu (TUR) 4:0 in the semi-final

2009 – AIBA World Championships (Milan, ITA) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Sergey Vodopyanov (RUS) 12:1
Defeated Oscar Valdez (MEX) 12:1 in the semi-final
Defeated Branimir Stankovic (SRB) 8:2 in the quarter-final
Defeated Craig Evans (WAL) 15:1 in the second preliminary round
Defeated Mario Aleksic (BIH) 16:2 in the first preliminary round

2009 – Makar Mazay Memorial Tournament (Mariupol, UKR) Gold medalist – 60 kg
Defeated Dmytro Bulenkov (UKR) 7:1 or 10:3 in the final
Defeated Volodimir Matviychuk (UKR) 10:1 in the semifinal
Defeated Serhiy Kravets (UKR) 4:0 in the quarter-final
Defeated Ismat Eynullayev (AZE) 14:4 in the first preliminary round

2009 – Ukraine Senior National Champs Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Maksim Tretyak (UKR) 10:0 in the final
Defeated Viktor Makaritskiy (UKR) 10:0 in the semifinal

2008 – World Cup (Moscow, RUS) participant – 57 kg
Lost to Bahodirjon Sultonov (UZB) WO in the quarterfinal

2008 – European Championships (Liverpool, ENG) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Araik Ambartsumov (RUS) 7:1 in the final
Defeated Hicham Ziouti (FRA) 2:1 in the semifinal
Defeated David Oliver Joyce (IRL) 10:2 in the quarterfinal
Defeated Vladimir Nikiforov (EST) 10:0 in the first round

2008 – Ukrainian National Championships (Evpatoriya, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Maksim Tretyak (UKR) by points in the final
Defeated Oleg Malinowskiy (UKR) 21:2 in the semifinal
Defeated Denys Levakov (UKR) AB 3rd round in the quarterfinal

2008 – XXIXth Summer Olympic Games (Beijing, CHN) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Khedafi Djelkhir (FRA) RSC 1st round in the final
Defeated Yakup Kilic (TUR) 10:1 in the semifinal
Defeated Li Yang (CHN) 12:3 in the quarterfinal
Defeated Bakhodirjon Sultonov (UZB) 13:1 in the second preliminary round
Defeated Albert Selimov (RUS) 14:7 in the first preliminary round

2008 – Klitschko Brothers Tournament (Kiev, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Sergey Ignatyev (RUS) AB 3rd round in the final
Defeated Soon Chul Han (KOR) AB 3rd round in the semifinal
Defeated Idel Torriente (CUB) 14:5 in the quarterfinal
Defeated Denis Tereshkov (BLR) DQ 4th round in the first preliminary round

2007 – AIBA World Championships (Chicago, USA) Silver medalist – 57 kg
Lost to Albert Selimov (RUS) 16:11 in the final
Defeated Li Yang (CHN) +13:13 in the semifinal
Defeated Arturo Santos Reyes (MEX) RSC-OS 3rd round in the quarterfinal
Defeated Mihail Bernadskiy (BLR) 21:6 in the third round
Defeated Theodoros Papazov (GRE) 19:5 in the second round
Defeated Abner Cotto (PUR) 26:9 in the first round

2007 – Semen Trestin Memorial (Odessa, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Vladimir Rodionov (RUS) AB 2nd round

2007 – UKR-CUB Dual Match – 57 kg
Defeated Reimi Castellano (CUB) by points

2006 – Junior World Championships (Agadir, MAR) Gold medalist – 51 kg
Defeated Alberto Portuondo (CUB) RSC-OS 3rd round in the final
Defeated Rahim Najafov (AZE) RSC-OS 3rd round in the semifinal
Defeated Andrew Selby (WAL) RSC-OS 3rd round in the quarterfinal
Defeated Sergey Vodopyanov (RUS) 37:17 in the second round
Defeated Derenik Gizhlaryan (ARM) 34:14 in the first round

2006 – Semen Trestin Memorial (Odessa, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Andrey Bukreyev (UKR) ??? in the final

2006 – Ukraine Senior National Championships Gold medalist – 51 kg

2005 – Semen Trestin Memorial (Odessa, UKR) Gold medalist – 51 kg
Defeated Vyacheslav Gojan (MDA) by points in the final

2004 – European Cadet Championships (Saratov, RUS) Gold medalist – 46 kg
Defeated Farid Aleshkin (RUS) 34:12 in the final
Defeated Samvel Barseghyan (ARM) RSC-OS 2nd round in the semifinal
Defeated Edgaras Zemaitis (LTU) RSC-OS in the quarterfinal
Defeated Constantin Paraschiv (ROM) 23:8 in the first round

2004 – Ukraine Cadet National Championships Gold medalist – 46 kg

[Kalan]

What about Olympic Gold Medal winner Nino Benvenuti of Italy??? ... I always suspected his amateur record of 120-0 was bogus.

Sugar Ray Robinson's amateur record is a lie.. Billy Graham said he beat Robinson unanimously but they attributed the loss to Walker Smith.. Robinson was kept out of National and International amateur competitions.. I think he was groomed as a big box-office pro from the very beginning, complete with the glitzy name Sugar Ray Robinson that they made up. He was kept out of amateur competitions they couldn't control. They came up with a story that he barrowed the name from another boxer name Ray Robinson and decided to keep it -- but nobody every found the real Ray Robinson.

[jamamb]

ya so many claimed. am records are fake cus its easy to fake. gggs claimed record is bs too as he has more losses than 5.broner claimed over 300 fights by like 17 which is bs.

seems to be lot less fakery with the brits imo. they wont try to turn 52-13 into 152-13

[boxing_rocks]

They count their child/youth tournaments.

[jamamb]

this was a very intersting tournament that loma won: 2007 – Semen Trestin Memorial

[Ilya Muromets]

Lots of fake pro records too. The two clowns who pretended to fight Haye in his comeback come to mind. Both had awesome records on paper and both were obviously in there with him just to find a nice soft spot on the floor to pretend to get knocked down on. Almost everything about boxing is crooked including records.

[Ilya Muromets]

this was a very intersting tournament that loma won: 2007 – Semen Trestin Memorial

The Semen Testing Memorial? That's the kind of tournaments we can have when Doc Goodman and her NeVADA drug test shakedown crew take over - The Saliva Test Championship...The Cleanest Urine Belt!

[JMac]

Guillermo Rigondeaux´s "Official" amateur record: 463-12
Vasyl Lomachenko´s "Official" amateur record: 396-1

Great research on the post Loco
No matter what their real amateur records were, this will be a great match up.

[Badhusker]

[Jip]

Very interresting. Very good thread

[Blodhemn]

Eh, they're a little bloated but not unrealistic. Labeling them as "fake" is more misleading.

[Evander]

Bet Rigondeaux sides with light than heavy.
Weight that is.

[victor-romeo]

I don't know if there records are fake or not but being two time Olympic champions tells you they were damn good amateur fighters.

[Evander]

[locoxelbox]

Eh, they're a little bloated but not unrealistic. Labeling them as "fake" is more misleading.

I admit I exaggerated the headline so that more people read the thread .

[agents]

2008 – World Cup (Moscow, RUS) participant – 57 kg [/b]
Lost to Bahodirjon Sultonov (UZB) WO in the quarterfinal

* It was one of the great meanness of AIBA! Vasily returned from Israel only after the operation on his arm and came to the tournament to get a cup of Val Barker, but the organizers included him in the participants, although he did not pass registration or even weighing !!!
So this fight should not have taken place a priori !!! However, then on the part of AIBA there were many claims for some reason to Vasily, and not to his functionaries ...
And this was the last reason why Vasil went to professional boxing !

2007 – Semen Trestin Memorial (Odessa, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Vladimir Rodionov (RUS) AB 2nd round

* I saw this fight, at the end of the first round, Vasily missed the first ever knockdown

2006 – Semen Trestin Memorial (Odessa, UKR) Gold medalist – 57 kg
Defeated Andrey Bukreyev (UKR) ??? in the final

* By points ! I saw this fight also, looked like the battle of a bullfighter with a bull and Bukreev many times almost flew outside the ring!

[Abradolf Lincler]

Pretty much any amateur record you see can be taken with a grain of salt. Only international matches (Olympics, World championships, WSB nowadays, etc.) and national tournaments to a lesser extent, depending on the nation (Golden Gloves, Cuban Nationals, Pan-Am, Asian, etc.) are fully verifiable.

[agents]

Hi ! Sorry, but I'not understand Site politic .... (((

Post disapproved: "Rigondeaux´s and Lomachenko´s fake amateur records"

Reason: The message contains links to illegal or pirated software..

30 Jul 2018, 12:48

[Thomastearns]

Lots of fake pro records too. The two clowns who pretended to fight Haye in his comeback come to mind. Both had awesome records on paper and both were obviously in there with him just to find a nice soft spot on the floor to pretend to get knocked down on. Almost everything about boxing is crooked including records.

Apart from what happens between the opening and the closing bell. We hope.

[Enlightened-One]

Lots of fake pro records too. The two clowns who pretended to fight Haye in his comeback come to mind. Both had awesome records on paper and both were obviously in there with him just to find a nice soft spot on the floor to pretend to get knocked down on. Almost everything about boxing is crooked including records.

It is entirely feasible for a boxer’s professional record to be statistically “impressive” and entirely authentic, regardless of the fighter’s talent levels.

Put it this way, how many impressive victories did Deontay Wilder achieve during the course of his career prior to the Luis Ortiz bout?

‘The Bronze Bomber’ had definitely defeated 39 opponents’ prior to stopping the Cuban, as nearly all of these contests can be viewed on YouTube. However, the vast majority of the victories he’d scored up to this point in his career were against horrendous opposition.

Arnold Gjergjaj and Mark De Mori may have both been utterly appalling fighters, but I don’t believe there’s anything technically "fake" or crooked about their manufactured records.

Fight fans have to take some responsibility for mismatches being orchestrated by promoters, because David Haye achieved viewing audience figures of 3m for the Mark De Mori fight and then 2½m against Arnold Gjergjaj, with both bouts being staged in front of a sell-out 16,000 crowd ‘The O2 Arena’.

Some journeymen will choose to continue taking easy fights in order to protect their record, especially if their lack of losses on their resumes is likely to be rewarded by a huge payday further down the line, by facing a marquee name.

Big name fighters will inevitably continue facing journeymen possessing “statistically impressive” records, either as part of the comeback process, to simply stay-busy or to safely climb the rankings in order to gain an undeserved title shot.

And ultimately, fight fans are responsible for this, because this type of activity in the sport of boxing wouldn’t occur if this practice wasn’t commercially viable.

Fight fans have to refrain from viewing mismatches, because promoters will continue to stage them whilst they’re able to continue generating profits.

It’s basic economics – promoters will continue to supply mismatches whilst there’s sufficient consumer demand to pay to watch them.

[Ilya Muromets]

It is entirely feasible for a boxer’s professional record to be statistically “impressive” and entirely authentic, regardless of the fighter’s talent levels.

Put it this way, how many impressive victories did Deontay Wilder achieve during the course of his career prior to the Luis Ortiz bout?

‘The Bronze Bomber’ had definitely defeated 39 opponents’ prior to stopping the Cuban, as nearly all of these contests can be viewed on YouTube. However, the vast majority of the victories he’d scored up to this point in his career were against horrendous opposition.

Arnold Gjergjaj and Mark De Mori may have both been utterly appalling fighters, but I don’t believe there’s anything technically "fake" or crooked about their manufactured records.

Fight fans have to take some responsibility for mismatches being orchestrated by promoters, because David Haye achieved viewing audience figures of 3m for the Mark De Mori fight and then 2½m against Arnold Gjergjaj, with both bouts being staged in front of a sell-out 16,000 crowd ‘The O2 Arena’.

Some journeymen will choose to continue taking easy fights in order to protect their record, especially if their lack of losses on their resumes is likely to be rewarded by a huge payday further down the line, by facing a marquee name.

Big name fighters will inevitably continue facing journeymen possessing “statistically impressive” records, either as part of the comeback process, to simply stay-busy or to safely climb the rankings in order to gain an undeserved title shot.

And ultimately, fight fans are responsible for this, because this type of activity in the sport of boxing wouldn’t occur if this practice wasn’t commercially viable.

Fight fans have to refrain from viewing mismatches, because promoters will continue to stage them whilst they’re able to continue generating profits.

It’s basic economics – promoters will continue to supply mismatches whilst there’s sufficient consumer demand to pay to watch them.

What was fake were their "fights" with Haye. They both were paid to make him look good in his comeback fight, to deliberately lose, to take a dive. It was quite obvious.

[Ilya Muromets]

It is entirely feasible for a boxer’s professional record to be statistically “impressive” and entirely authentic, regardless of the fighter’s talent levels.

Put it this way, how many impressive victories did Deontay Wilder achieve during the course of his career prior to the Luis Ortiz bout?

‘The Bronze Bomber’ had definitely defeated 39 opponents’ prior to stopping the Cuban, as nearly all of these contests can be viewed on YouTube. However, the vast majority of the victories he’d scored up to this point in his career were against horrendous opposition.

Arnold Gjergjaj and Mark De Mori may have both been utterly appalling fighters, but I don’t believe there’s anything technically "fake" or crooked about their manufactured records.

Fight fans have to take some responsibility for mismatches being orchestrated by promoters, because David Haye achieved viewing audience figures of 3m for the Mark De Mori fight and then 2½m against Arnold Gjergjaj, with both bouts being staged in front of a sell-out 16,000 crowd ‘The O2 Arena’.

Some journeymen will choose to continue taking easy fights in order to protect their record, especially if their lack of losses on their resumes is likely to be rewarded by a huge payday further down the line, by facing a marquee name.

Big name fighters will inevitably continue facing journeymen possessing “statistically impressive” records, either as part of the comeback process, to simply stay-busy or to safely climb the rankings in order to gain an undeserved title shot.

And ultimately, fight fans are responsible for this, because this type of activity in the sport of boxing wouldn’t occur if this practice wasn’t commercially viable.

Fight fans have to refrain from viewing mismatches, because promoters will continue to stage them whilst they’re able to continue generating profits.

It’s basic economics – promoters will continue to supply mismatches whilst there’s sufficient consumer demand to pay to watch them.

And some of those wins were suspicious, like Scott and Molina, and the Ortiz fight was the most suspicious of all. Likewise Wilder's draw with Fury. Like Ortiz said, Wilder has handlers with deep pockets.

[Enlightened-One]

What was fake were their "fights" with Haye. They both were paid to make him look good in his comeback fight, to deliberately lose, to take a dive. It was quite obvious.

I don’t believe that Arnold Gjergjaj or Mark De Mori took “dives” when they faced David Haye. They were never good enough to pose a decent challenge in the first-place. And their records clearly illustrate this fact.

[Ilya Muromets]

I don’t believe that Arnold Gjergjaj or Mark De Mori took “dives” when they faced David Haye. They were never good enough to pose a decent challenge in the first-place. And their records clearly illustrate this fact.

I do. I thought it was some bad acting too. They were good enough to embarrass him in his comeback. There were some youtubes that analyzed the dives in detail.