Would Muhammad Ali be successful today?

[Onetimeonly]

When comparing heavyweights from the past I've always felt that for every ' generation' you have to add on some height and weight for natural physical development the same way as average heights have increased. For example Jack Dempsey was a big man in the 1920's at 6'1". The average man was around 5'7". So if we say the average man today is around 5' 9" then Dempsey should be considered
To be 6' 3".
Therefore I would have Ali about 6'4" and fit and lean about 225 pounds. I think he'd outbox almost all the current big men over 15 rounds, many of whom wouldn't have the stamina for the longer distance anyway.

It would be tough for wilder or fury to go the distance with Ali.

[Controversial]

It's interesting to note that Ali was rarely outweighed in his career, when he was it was normally only by a few pounds. More often than not he held some sort of a physical advantage over his opponent, be it in height, weight or reach.

[elmersalsa]

It's interesting to note that Ali was rarely outweighed in his career, when he was it was normally only by a few pounds. More often than not he held some sort of a physical advantage over his opponent, be it in height, weight or reach.

He wasn't going to have an advantage with today's mamoths. But, I can't picture him losing to no Deaontay Wilder nor Tyson Fury nor Anthony Joshua. Not even Lennox Lewis is in Ali's class.

[oogiebe]

me too, but the lines were a lot more defined due to the Cold war and there wernt so many people living on the planet back then to make things stressfull.

Sorry but you're dreaming. The only thing that we have now that we didn't have then, is social media and the internet. I admit that it adds stress to our lives, especially the 24/7 news cycle.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- 15 rds ain't today.

Ali turns pro as a skinny cruiser before modern vitamins grow him to 200. Today's cruisers have never been stronger, so he might take a loss. the most natural fight is against Usyk who is much more technically adept, 50-50 being the odds if not 60-40 Usyk because we don't know how making weight affects him.

Ali definitely smallish as a heavy where size and strength add up to more KDS and punishment, ect, so can he run the gauntlet of beefy 250 lb contenders guaranteed to maul any fighters in between exhausting them with size and strength in the clinches, and don't heavies use 12 oz gloves these days?

Potentially Dempsey and Louis have more success due to histories of KOing bigger men, but again, modern wraps and gloves may be problematic.

Sorta like how a 1 post debut has got the usual suspects slinging shhh at each other.

Well played I say!

[HomicideHenry]

Alp, our present era is not as bad as the 1980s. We've had three undisputed heavyweight champions. The 80s only had one (Mike Tyson).

Adamek & Toney were multiple weight champions. That's far more impressive than just dominating one weight class. So yes they're at least comparable in worth and/or accomplishment.

Alp, there are people with comparable skills and abilities to Ali. Lomanchenko, is the most obvious. As for the heavyweights--- Fury had barely ever been touched in his entire career. He relies on speed, elusiveness, ring generalship. He's without question the fastest heavyweight over 6'5" and over 240 pounds the sport has ever seen. Outside of the 12th round against Wilder he's never really looked vulnerable against anybody--- and don't bring up Ali, his candied ass was all but knocked out by Cooper and arguably lost to Doug Jones and was dropped by others as well in his career.

I've already said that IF SIZE WAS THE ONLY THING then yeah Ali has no problem--- but it's everything else. It's as if you think Fury, Wilder, Lewis, Joshua, the Klitschko's just stand there and do nothing. They are pretty damn active in that ring.

And yes, I maintain he would be flying around, because he'd be constantly off balance and trying to get away--- because the long reach, strides, etc of super heavyweights would force him to get the hell away rather than "take it to them", which was never his damn style anyways.

[paddy chavez]

When comparing heavyweights from the past I've always felt that for every ' generation' you have to add on some height and weight for natural physical development the same way as average heights have increased. For example Jack Dempsey was a big man in the 1920's at 6'1". The average man was around 5'7". So if we say the average man today is around 5' 9" then Dempsey should be considered
To be 6' 3".
Therefore I would have Ali about 6'4" and fit and lean about 225 pounds. I think he'd outbox almost all the current big men over 15 rounds, many of whom wouldn't have the stamina for the longer distance anyway.

But that's wouldn't be Ali that's another fighter

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Yes.

[DrDuke]

He wasn't going to have an advantage with today's mamoths. But, I can't picture him losing to no Deaontay Wilder nor Tyson Fury nor Anthony Joshua. Not even Lennox Lewis is in Ali's class.

Today's heavies definitely still have something to prove, but Lewis certainly was in Ali class, I'd say. For me Lewis is the best HW ever.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Ali would be the Lineal/Undefeated/Undisputed Heavyweight Champ Of The World

[Controversial]

He wasn't going to have an advantage with today's mamoths. But, I can't picture him losing to no Deaontay Wilder nor Tyson Fury nor Anthony Joshua. Not even Lennox Lewis is in Ali's class.

He would find it tougher, sheer size and weight does make a difference if your opponent is world class. Ali would lean out of the way a lot, not so easy when your fighting someone bigger. Even Wilder said he would come in at 245lbs against Fury if they fought again, there's a reason he said that, and even though Wilder isn't heavy he makes up for it in height, reach and power.

[APerno]

I lived and it was just as crazy back then. You had the cold war; DNC Riots in 1968; civil rights; anti war protests; Watergate; MLK Assassination; RFK Assassination; and other social upheavals. Read up on your history Caract!

No doubt all that happened, but back then each was a shock to our sensibilities; it was those things that dashed our innocence and brought us to where we are today, a jaded culture.

I suspect The Barbarian is right, today Ali woes would probably just run the classic three day news cycle, not become the three year event it became; just another blip in the continuous fear mongering of contemporary media.

P.S. You forgot: Charlie Manson, the Watts riots, Medar Evers, the Prague Spring, My Lai, 'the long hot summers,' bra burning, Beatlemania, Tommy Smith and John Carlos, The Six Day War, Bay of Pigs, Missile Crisis . . . OK I am starting to sound like a Billy Joel song, think I'll stop now.

[Ambling Alp II]

Alp, our present era is not as bad as the 1980s. We've had three undisputed heavyweight champions. The 80s only had one (Mike Tyson).

Adamek & Toney were multiple weight champions. That's far more impressive than just dominating one weight class. So yes they're at least comparable in worth and/or accomplishment.

Alp, there are people with comparable skills and abilities to Ali. Lomanchenko, is the most obvious. As for the heavyweights--- Fury had barely ever been touched in his entire career. He relies on speed, elusiveness, ring generalship. He's without question the fastest heavyweight over 6'5" and over 240 pounds the sport has ever seen. Outside of the 12th round against Wilder he's never really looked vulnerable against anybody--- and don't bring up Ali, his candied ass was all but knocked out by Cooper and arguably lost to Doug Jones and was dropped by others as well in his career.

I've already said that IF SIZE WAS THE ONLY THING then yeah Ali has no problem--- but it's everything else. It's as if you think Fury, Wilder, Lewis, Joshua, the Klitschko's just stand there and do nothing. They are pretty damn active in that ring.

And yes, I maintain he would be flying around, because he'd be constantly off balance and trying to get away--- because the long reach, strides, etc of super heavyweights would force him to get the hell away rather than "take it to them", which was never his damn style anyways.

OK, I guess I will respond to your deeply flawed points.

An era isn't "better" because there a re less "undisputed" champions. That has nothing to do with the quality of the fighters.

Being a multiple- weight champion is not far more impressive one weight class. Depends on the weight class at the time you are fighting.. Depends on who you beat. Ali beat a ton o good-great fighters in his career. Adamek and Toney's resume's are a joke in comparison.

Fury has never been touched? Well he got knocked down by the legendary Neven Pajik, a guy who had 5 ko's in his whole career. The guy is not hard to hit all. Ali would have no trouble getting to him.
Yes Ali got knocked down by Cooper. He got up at the count of three and continued to dominate the fight.

Ali in his prime was way, way faster than today's heavyweights.
They are going to have a lot of trouble hitting him. He isn't going to have much trouble hitting them. They never faced anyone with near his hand speed.
They are also used to fighting at a slow pace. Ali is going to make them fight at a faster pace.

You listed Lennox Lewis. I didn't know he is considered in this era. He has been retired for a long time. He was a great fighter. Clearly not as good as Ali; clearly better than Fury, Joshua, Wilder.

[Onetimeonly]

Ali wouldn't lose a minute of a round against fury. This guy didn't land as many punches combined against wlad & wilder as Ali would land on him in 5 rounds, if Tyson lasted that long. He'd be sucking wind after 1.

[tiny_acres]

Ali wouldn't lose a minute of a round against fury. This guy didn't land as many punches combined against wlad & wilder as Ali would land on him in 5 rounds, if Tyson lasted that long. He'd be sucking wind after 1.

Ali would easily out land Fury and easily beat him on points.
But I doubt he stops him

[oogiebe]

Ali would easily out land Fury and easily beat him on points.
But I doubt he stops him

He'd exhaust him.

[Onetimeonly]

Ali would easily out land Fury and easily beat him on points.
But I doubt he stops him

Fury has a ton of heart, but that pace is something he wouldn't like.

[cfang]

Ali totally dominates this era. He was past his best and still came out on top in the best era for heavys.

Fury has a ton of heart, but that pace is something he wouldn't like.

[gilgamesh]

To answer the question.

Yes. Undoubtedly.

[HomicideHenry]

Ali wouldn't lose a minute of a round against fury. This guy didn't land as many punches combined against wlad & wilder as Ali would land on him in 5 rounds, if Tyson lasted that long. He'd be sucking wind after 1.

Fury is a smart fighter. I can't see him making the mistake so many men made, which was to chase Ali for four, five, six rounds and get gassed out. If you are a tall man--- you're better off letting someone come to you, where you can tag them with uppercuts and/or lean on them and pepper them with body shots. Besides, Fury has great movement for a man his size--- he can avoid shots, and tag Ali with his own jabs. After all, it was the jab and counter straight hand that defeated Ali when Norton fought him.

I'm not saying Fury would have it easy. Not saying that at all--- but if a man has virtually identical qualities to yourself, and is physically superior on top of it, then it's Ali who has to work harder to make an impact rather than Fury.

[HomicideHenry]

OK, I guess I will respond to your deeply flawed points.

An era isn't "better" because there a re less "undisputed" champions. That has nothing to do with the quality of the fighters.

Being a multiple- weight champion is not far more impressive one weight class. Depends on the weight class at the time you are fighting.. Depends on who you beat. Ali beat a ton o good-great fighters in his career. Adamek and Toney's resume's are a joke in comparison.

Fury has never been touched? Well he got knocked down by the legendary Neven Pajik, a guy who had 5 ko's in his whole career. The guy is not hard to hit all. Ali would have no trouble getting to him.
Yes Ali got knocked down by Cooper. He got up at the count of three and continued to dominate the fight.

Ali in his prime was way, way faster than today's heavyweights.
They are going to have a lot of trouble hitting him. He isn't going to have much trouble hitting them. They never faced anyone with near his hand speed.
They are also used to fighting at a slow pace. Ali is going to make them fight at a faster pace.

You listed Lennox Lewis. I didn't know he is considered in this era. He has been retired for a long time. He was a great fighter. Clearly not as good as Ali; clearly better than Fury, Joshua, Wilder.

If you believe guys like Weaver, Tate, Coetzee, Tubbs, etc could beat the top three (Fury, Wilder, Joshua) as well as the Klitschko's then you certainly see something I don't.

A man going from 147-200 and making an awful lot of heavyweights look silly is not as impressive or more so than just dominating a single weight class, then nothing could convince you of somebody's greatness.

Ali was also dropped by the likes of Duke Sabedong... The point is anyone can look foolish or silly.

I would expect a man 215 pounds to naturally be faster than the 245+ pound heavyweights today... Yes Ali was arguably the fastest all around but there were men with comparable hand and foot speed... But even they lost to larger men. At some point physics will be too much to overcome.

I used to despise Lewis. Wouldn't even rate him higher than #11 for the longest time. I also thought at one time Larry Holmes was no higher than #10. But that was when I was 18-19 years old. I'm 33 now, and see Holmes as #1 and Lewis arguably #5 because at the end of the day one must figure, "Who can beat who?", and it's difficult for me seeing 5'11" Marciano & Frazier & Tyson doing much, etc. I'd still rate Ali somewhere in the top three, but I think he wouldn't be able to do much with Holyfield, Holmes, Lewis, and the much bigger men as well.

[gilgamesh]

Tyson Fury is certainly not some unbeatable talent. He's a guy that specializes in nullifying a fight. If it don't work, and somebody makes him fight he wouldn't respond too well. All his posturing, and showboaty sh*t wouldn't mean dick to Ali. Ali would just smack him around when he tried to clown him, and then he'd clown him better.

At 200+ pounds you're perfectly capable of beating up any man if you can defend yourself from their attacks, and beat them to the punch. Ali could do both of these things quite well. Holyfield would be a handful for Ali though I'll grant you that. Lewis would be difficult too.

[oogiebe]

If you believe guys like Weaver, Tate, Coetzee, Tubbs, etc could beat the top three (Fury, Wilder, Joshua) as well as the Klitschko's then you certainly see something I don't.

A man going from 147-200 and making an awful lot of heavyweights look silly is not as impressive or more so than just dominating a single weight class, then nothing could convince you of somebody's greatness.

Ali was also dropped by the likes of Duke Sabedong... The point is anyone can look foolish or silly.

I would expect a man 215 pounds to naturally be faster than the 245+ pound heavyweights today... Yes Ali was arguably the fastest all around but there were men with comparable hand and foot speed... But even they lost to larger men. At some point physics will be too much to overcome.

I used to despise Lewis. Wouldn't even rate him higher than #11 for the longest time. I also thought at one time Larry Holmes was no higher than #10. But that was when I was 18-19 years old. I'm 33 now, and see Holmes as #1 and Lewis arguably #5 because at the end of the day one must figure, "Who can beat who?", and it's difficult for me seeing 5'11" Marciano & Frazier & Tyson doing much, etc. I'd still rate Ali somewhere in the top three, but I think he wouldn't be able to do much with Holyfield, Holmes, Lewis, and the much bigger men as well.

Not sure why you picked those several fighters in your first sentence. Based on your age, you never saw Ali at his peak. He wasn't just fast, he was blazing and threw five plus punch combinations that just befuddled and wrecked his opponents. Even Ali during his second reign would be the top dog today. He could adjust to anything being given to him in the ring and was perhaps the smartest in ring fighter I ever saw. I personally have Lewis #1 All time based on who beats who, but I wouldn't bet against Ali ever. Not after seeing what I saw. Today's HW's aren't great. They are big and are athletic. None of them is a great boxer in the classic sense. Fury isn't great. He's just the best of the top three on a technical basis at this given time. Now All-time hw is another story. Holy would be tough; Holmes too. Lewis would beat him as Lewis had the size; power and was a terrific boxer. This is already longer than I prefer. Thanks for listening.

[HomicideHenry]

I just think many on the forum, who have lived in the 60s & 70s, are guilty of rose colored glasses because that time period was their youth--- they view it (that era) as something of vitality, truth, etc. Therefore they're all supermen, incapable of losing or wrongdoing.

Ali had flaws. Eddie Futch figured Ali out in two distinct, different ways. He could be counter punched to death--- and he wasn't a good infighter. If he was considered the most athletic of his time, then one must assume athleticism has caught up with Ali by now. He only appears great (in comparison) because the man started off as an amateur light heavyweight and would be considered today a cruiserweight. Those men in those weight classes appear more graceful, athletic, etc than heavyweights--- especially ones from today, but even someone like Mike Tyson recognizes that he probably wouldn't able to beat guys like the Klitschko's.

[oogiebe]

I just think many on the forum, who have lived in the 60s & 70s, are guilty of rose colored glasses because that time period was their youth--- they view it (that era) as something of vitality, truth, etc. Therefore they're all supermen, incapable of losing or wrongdoing.

Ali had flaws. Eddie Futch figured Ali out in two distinct, different ways. He could be counter punched to death--- and he wasn't a good infighter. If he was considered the most athletic of his time, then one must assume athleticism has caught up with Ali by now. He only appears great (in comparison) because the man started off as an amateur light heavyweight and would be considered today a cruiserweight. Those men in those weight classes appear more graceful, athletic, etc than heavyweights--- especially ones from today, but even someone like Mike Tyson recognizes that he probably wouldn't able to beat guys like the Klitschko's.

No rose colored glasses here. Ali of the sixties was too fast of head; hands; and feet for today's HW's. Stop bringing up fighters from other eras. They are not part of this thread's discussion.