if....... its going to be a difficult fight for ODLH and PBF! one that could boost their ratings in the boxing worldadspath wrote:We'll just have to wait and see. If anyone is going to beat Floyd its going to DLH. But with Floyd Snr not taking part i dont think its going to be easy for Oscar to adjust to a new trainer for one fight. If he does decide to do this and beats Floyd it will be a historic moment because Floyd is an up and coming great and if Oscar can beat him on his last fight it would be great.
Oscar de la hoya
At the risk of upsetting a lot of people I will disagree and it is my humble opinion that ODLH was a prime example of a manufactured champion.
Granted he has won world titles at different weights but he has been the most expertly matched fighter of recent times and has been well protected.
The truly world class fighters that have faced him have beaten him. Chavez and Whittaker were clearly well past their primes when DLH beat them.
Don't get me wrong, I think DLH is a superb fighter but I just don't think he's an all-time great.
Granted he has won world titles at different weights but he has been the most expertly matched fighter of recent times and has been well protected.
The truly world class fighters that have faced him have beaten him. Chavez and Whittaker were clearly well past their primes when DLH beat them.
Don't get me wrong, I think DLH is a superb fighter but I just don't think he's an all-time great.
ok BoxBuzz heres a question ive always wanted to ask true Kostya fans?BoxBuzz wrote:Hatton and Tszyu over DLH? Well Kostya is just about my all time favorite fighter so it's nice to see he has some support in such a theoretical.
in his book entitled My Story
writer Grantlee Kieza rates Kostya as the greastest if al JW ontop of guys like Pryor, Benitez, Oscar, Chavez, cervantes etc.. do u and other Kostya fans agree with this, because i reeli dont but i think thats why its in his book!
I haven't read the book, Migzy, but you can't really expect them not to claim he was the greatest ever. I think Jnr Welter is quite an open division in terms of who was the greatest. I think he's got a fair claim to it. He wouldn't be my pick, but that would be just eprsonal preference and he wouldn't be too far off..Migz wrote:ok BoxBuzz heres a question ive always wanted to ask true Kostya fans?BoxBuzz wrote:Hatton and Tszyu over DLH? Well Kostya is just about my all time favorite fighter so it's nice to see he has some support in such a theoretical.
in his book entitled My Story
writer Grantlee Kieza rates Kostya as the greastest if al JW ontop of guys like Pryor, Benitez, Oscar, Chavez, cervantes etc.. do u and other Kostya fans agree with this, because i reeli dont but i think thats why its in his book!
As you know Migz, Kostya is my favourite fighter as well as DLH. I think it is called My Story...very good book ive read it a few times and loved it every timeEzzard wrote:I haven't read the book, Migzy, but you can't really expect them not to claim he was the greatest ever. I think Jnr Welter is quite an open division in terms of who was the greatest. I think he's got a fair claim to it. He wouldn't be my pick, but that would be just eprsonal preference and he wouldn't be too far off..Migz wrote:ok BoxBuzz heres a question ive always wanted to ask true Kostya fans?BoxBuzz wrote:Hatton and Tszyu over DLH? Well Kostya is just about my all time favorite fighter so it's nice to see he has some support in such a theoretical.
in his book entitled My Story
writer Grantlee Kieza rates Kostya as the greastest if al JW ontop of guys like Pryor, Benitez, Oscar, Chavez, cervantes etc.. do u and other Kostya fans agree with this, because i reeli dont but i think thats why its in his book!
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
A manufactured champion? Protected? The truly world class fighters have beaten him? Then you say in a later post that Kosta Tszyu and Ricky Hatton would have beaten him?Sovoth wrote:At the risk of upsetting a lot of people I will disagree and it is my humble opinion that ODLH was a prime example of a manufactured champion.
Granted he has won world titles at different weights but he has been the most expertly matched fighter of recent times and has been well protected.
The truly world class fighters that have faced him have beaten him. Chavez and Whittaker were clearly well past their primes when DLH beat them.
Don't get me wrong, I think DLH is a superb fighter but I just don't think he's an all-time great.
Well, weren't Quartey and Vargas world class? Not to mention that the bad decision that they gave Trinidad against him and Moseley in their second fight. Chavez and Whitaker were past their prime but they were certainly still world class.
De La Hoya has beaten good fighters such as Molina, Hernandez, Carr, Riveria, and Mayorga, to mention a few.
If you don't consider any of these guys "world class", then what fighters have Tszuu and Hatton ever beaten that are "world class"?
To criticize a few of his perfomances is fair enough. However, to call De La Hoya a manufactured champion and protected is absolutely ridiculaus. De La Hoya has always been one guy who has taken on the best.
I would have Tszyu in the top 5 junior-welterweights of all-time, but probably not number 1. Barney Ross takes top spot for me, followed by in no particular order Aaron Pryor, Antonio Cervantes, Julio Cesar Chavez, Tszyu, De La Hoya, Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran and Pernell Whitaker. The guys who hung around the division for longer reigns would get the nod over Duran and Whitaker, although I think those two would beat just about everyone else on the list at this weight.
I'd also pick Tszyu over De La Hoya if they both fought at that weight at their best, Oscar certainly is faster and has the power to hurt Kostya, but theres two ways to beat Kostya, the first is to smother him and give him little room to punch, and the second is with the right hand. I just couldn't see Oscar doing either, he doesn't fight that way and he didn't have the right hand in his arsenal at that stage of his career, his right hand simply set up his left hook. The fight would be close but Tszyu would outbox him I think and win over 12 rounds on points.
But I couldn't see Hatton handling Oscar at 140. Oscar is too quick and punches too hard for Hatton and even if Ricky can bring him to the late rounds I think he would take too much punishment in the early rounds to be fighting effectively. I think Oscar stops him on a cut in the middle rounds after totally dominating the entire fight.
I'd also pick Tszyu over De La Hoya if they both fought at that weight at their best, Oscar certainly is faster and has the power to hurt Kostya, but theres two ways to beat Kostya, the first is to smother him and give him little room to punch, and the second is with the right hand. I just couldn't see Oscar doing either, he doesn't fight that way and he didn't have the right hand in his arsenal at that stage of his career, his right hand simply set up his left hook. The fight would be close but Tszyu would outbox him I think and win over 12 rounds on points.
But I couldn't see Hatton handling Oscar at 140. Oscar is too quick and punches too hard for Hatton and even if Ricky can bring him to the late rounds I think he would take too much punishment in the early rounds to be fighting effectively. I think Oscar stops him on a cut in the middle rounds after totally dominating the entire fight.
No way Tsyzu beats a ten stone Oscar. Oscar at his peak was amazing, speed, stamina, power, hell of a chin and great footwork plus he could throw punches in bunches. A much better boxer all round than Tsyzu. It would take a peak Duran to take a peak DLH at 140lbs. That's how good he was. Look against Felix he coasted and was well ahead, gave away the last 3 rds and lost. But he still was superior to Felix.
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vagabundo55
- Heavyweight
Hatton get's stopped by De La Hoya in my opinion. Oscar is just physically too big, and technically much better. De La Hoya is an all-time great. Sure he wouldn't beat everyone, but it's safe to say he'd give most fighters in his division a competitive fight. I agree with your previous post about Tsyzu, Duran and Trinidad against De La Hoya.walshb wrote:I'm a big fan of Hatton, but he gets thoroughly outpointed by Oscar at 140lbs. Too much speed and footwork, Hattons face would be a mess.....
I think a lot of people underestimate Tszyu's boxing ability. You don't go 259-12 in an amatuer career without being a skilled boxer. Tszyu had great defensive abilities, he was a very hard fighter to tag cleanly, his physical strength was phenominal, and he was also a great thinker. Tszyu gets incorrectly branded a mindless brawler by a lot of fight fans and a lot of people think all he can do is punch. Tszyu could box with the best of them. The styles just match up badly for Oscar and he would have a hard time nailing Tszyu with his left hook. I think Oscar would have the edge over the early rounds before Tszyus strength and conditioning breaks him down and Tszyu takes a close, but unanimous decision. People really underrate Kostya's abilities, especially in defence and tactics, I am not saying he's one of the greatest pound for pound fighters of all-time, but he certainly would be a test for anyman who ever fought, and I just can't see Oscar beating him.
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ringsider
- Heavyweight
That is easily the stupidest thing I have ever read on this page. ODH would beat Ricky Hatton so bad it would be a black eye for boxing. Hatton is lucky to be called a good street fighter. Too small, no jab, and can't box......sounds a lot like Mayorga.I think Tszyu decisions DLH at Junior Welter. I also think Ricky Hatton destroys him in 8 rounds.
Except Mayorga was bigger.re
>>>Top 3? Nah. Off the top of my head, pernell Whitaker, Julio Cesar Chavez and Roy Jones jnr would all be above him, if I thought about it a bit more I would put a few others in there but I'll sober up first.<<<
Well off the top of my head, considering that Oscar beat two of the three you mentioned...I would say...yeah! Go sober up. See kids...alcohol really effects judgment!
Well off the top of my head, considering that Oscar beat two of the three you mentioned...I would say...yeah! Go sober up. See kids...alcohol really effects judgment!
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vagabundo55
- Heavyweight
I do agree Tszyu is often underestimated, but I highly doubt he'd beat De La Hoya prime for prime. De La Hoya is just too big. I think sometimes people forget how versatile De La Hoya is. Sometimes I even wonder if Chavez would definetely win against De La Hoya prime for prime. I think Chavez would stop him with a hard left hook to the body, but it might play out somewhat like Chavez vs Taylor in that Taylor was winning but Chavez was landing the harder shots. I'm beginning to think De La Hoya is underrated in this forum. He's fought the best in each division he's been in. He hasn't always won, but he's always been competitive never completely outclassed. He is definetely an all time great. I don't know where i'd rate him though as I haven't made a list.Les Darcy wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate Tszyu's boxing ability. You don't go 259-12 in an amatuer career without being a skilled boxer. Tszyu had great defensive abilities, he was a very hard fighter to tag cleanly, his physical strength was phenominal, and he was also a great thinker. Tszyu gets incorrectly branded a mindless brawler by a lot of fight fans and a lot of people think all he can do is punch. Tszyu could box with the best of them. The styles just match up badly for Oscar and he would have a hard time nailing Tszyu with his left hook. I think Oscar would have the edge over the early rounds before Tszyus strength and conditioning breaks him down and Tszyu takes a close, but unanimous decision. People really underrate Kostya's abilities, especially in defence and tactics, I am not saying he's one of the greatest pound for pound fighters of all-time, but he certainly would be a test for anyman who ever fought, and I just can't see Oscar beating him.
re
I think those that vastly underrate De La Hoya do so simply because they do not like him. People can say, or make up whatever they want about Oscar, but they sure as hell cannot refute the steady fighting of top opposition, or the success that he has had against the best. I have difficulties listing him with the very best of all-time, but I have no doubt that he would be very competitive with any fighter in history from welterweight down thru lightweight and on any given night, he could beat any fighter in his weight range.