If a 37-38y/o Golovkin would get a third fight vs Canelo and again it's close.What it would tell you about G's talent?

[apollo creed]

P4P or ATG talent ?

I could see GGG putting a great effort vs Canelo in a third fight.

[Ezzard]

He's done enough and showed enough that I rank him as one of the best at 160 of my lifetime. I have him in the Hagler and Hopkins club. I wasn't old enough to remember Monzon.

[apollo creed]

He's done enough and showed enough that I rank him as one of the best at 160 of my lifetime. I have him in the Hagler and Hopkins club. I wasn't old enough to remember Monzon.

No doubt that he is in this exclusivist club.

[apollo creed]

I think in the history of boxing GGG would be ranked and seen higher than Canelo because the truth is that a 35y/o GGG beat a 26y/o protected and 'enhanced' Canelo. And of course not only because of that performance but also because of the dominance and the fear that he spread in his prime time that made the other 'champs' to avoid him.

[greg]

..a boxer can't be held responsible for the incompetence (or was it something else?) of the referee/judges..they still have to box at a neutral venue to get a legit result..

[apollo creed]

..a boxer can't be held responsible for the incompetence (or was it something else?) of the referee/judges..they still have to box at a neutral venue to get a legit result..

Yup.

[Enlightened-One]

P4P or ATG talent ?

I could see GGG putting a great effort vs Canelo in a third fight.

GGG will lose by a wide margin when he faces Canelo for a third time.

In terms of legacy, Golovkin should be perceived as being a Hall-of-Famer, but an underachiever.

His team should’ve attempted to make more fights and they shouldn’t have pretended he was capable of competing and defeating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, because Golovkin made no attempt whatsoever to prove it.

People will inevitably accuse me of being a “hater”, but it’s categorically impossible to prove me wrong. GGG said things that were untrue, because many of his big peers didn’t “duck” him and Golovkin flatly-refused to compete outside his 160lbs comfort zone.

People might disagree with me, but they won’t be able to substantiate their counter-argument with evidence, since none exists.

Some members of this forum will resort to using personal insults to attempt to discredit me, but none of them will attempt to provide proof that contradicts any of the claims I’ve just made.

[Cent0089]

Too bad he was not able to face Sturm and Martinez in past years. Regardless of third Canelo fight. If GGG can defeat Demetrius Andrade, i would rank him in this Hagler and Hopkins club too Hes career is not over yet

[apollo creed]

GGG will lose by a wide margin when he faces Canelo for a third time.

In terms of legacy, Golovkin should be perceived as being a Hall-of-Famer, but an underachiever.

His team should’ve attempted to make more fights and they shouldn’t have pretended he was capable of competing and defeating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, because Golovkin made no attempt whatsoever to prove it.

People will inevitably accuse me of being a “hater”, but it’s categorically impossible to prove me wrong. GGG said things that were untrue, because many of his big peers didn’t “duck” him and Golovkin flatly-refused to compete outside his 160lbs comfort zone.

People might disagree with me, but they won’t be able to substantiate their counter-argument with evidence, since none exists.

Some members of this forum will resort to using personal insults to attempt to discredit me, but none of them will attempt to provide proof that contradicts any of the claims I’ve just made.

You need medical help.

[apollo creed]

Too bad he was not able to face Sturm and Martinez in past years. Regardless of third Canelo fight. If GGG can defeat Demetrius Andrade, i would rank him in this Hagler and Hopkins club too Hes career is not over yet

I think GGG could do it even at his age.

[jenko21]

GGG will lose by a wide margin when he faces Canelo for a third time.

In terms of legacy, Golovkin should be perceived as being a Hall-of-Famer, but an underachiever.

His team should’ve attempted to make more fights and they shouldn’t have pretended he was capable of competing and defeating the very best from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, because Golovkin made no attempt whatsoever to prove it.

People will inevitably accuse me of being a “hater”, but it’s categorically impossible to prove me wrong. GGG said things that were untrue, because many of his big peers didn’t “duck” him and Golovkin flatly-refused to compete outside his 160lbs comfort zone.

People might disagree with me, but they won’t be able to substantiate their counter-argument with evidence, since none exists.

Some members of this forum will resort to using personal insults to attempt to discredit me, but none of them will attempt to provide proof that contradicts any of the claims I’ve just made.

He's had how many fights? what do you want from him,? To fight 4 times a year or more? That doesn't happen when you get to the level he was at.

I will not use personal insults but you are obviously not very clued up GGG is a small middleweight. He's would never be able to make 175 without losing what made him so successful at his weight.

Going off what a trainer says is stupid. If we listened to them then every fighter in the world is p4p the best ever.

GGG is not an underachiever, he's achieved a hell of a lot. Some people don't jump up in weight, you shouldn't beat them with a stick over it.

[boxing_rocks]

I think GGG could do it even at his age.

Who is Andrade? The guy whose best win is Vanes, and that was very close? GGG would smash him now.

[Enlightened-One]

He's had how many fights? what do you want from him,? To fight 4 times a year or more? That doesn't happen when you get to the level he was at.

I will not use personal insults but you are obviously not very clued up GGG is a small middleweight. He's would never be able to make 175 without losing what made him so successful at his weight.

Going off what a trainer says is stupid. If we listened to them then every fighter in the world is p4p the best ever.

GGG is not an underachiever, he's achieved a hell of a lot. Some people don't jump up in weight, you shouldn't beat them with a stick over it.

I’ll address each point you raised head-on:

• I meant that GGG’s team didn’t attempt to make more marquee bouts for Golovkin, since there’s very little evidence of Tom Loeffler submitting financial offers to Gennady’s big-name peers.

• We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight. It’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.

• Team GGG have persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. And Tom Loeffler previously stated that GGG wanted to fight Bernard Hopkins at 175lbs.

You may accuse me of being not clued-up about GGG’s resume, which is fine, but I hope you’ve learned a few interesting things from the above list of facts.

[jenko21]

I’ll address each point you raised head-on:

• I meant that GGG’s team didn’t attempt to make more marquee bouts for Golovkin, since there’s very little evidence of Tom Loeffler submitting financial offers to Gennady’s big-name peers.

• We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight. It’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.

• Team GGG have persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. And during February 2016, Tom Loeffler stated that GGG wanted to fight Bernard Hopkins at 175lbs.

You may accuse me of being not clued-up about GGG’s resume, which is fine, but I hope you’ve learned a few interesting things from the above list of facts.

Who was there at 160 that he didn't beat?

Many fighters compete at a higher weight at an amateur level, that's nothing new, he is a small middleweight, he's what 5,9 and walks around at fighting weight. Look at the difference between him and Jacobs on fight night.

Again listening to what trainers/promoters isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all he said she said bull. They are paid handsomely to keep Thier fighters in the public eye.

I suppose you were one of the guys that was happy for khan/brook Garcia ect to jump up two weights to get absolutely starched. Why should GGG do that when he's the draw in the division?

[ewenhay]

I’ll address each point you raised head-on:

• I meant that GGG’s team didn’t attempt to make more marquee bouts for Golovkin, since there’s very little evidence of Tom Loeffler submitting financial offers to Gennady’s big-name peers.

• We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight. It’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.

• Team GGG have persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitat, ranging from 154lbs to 175lbs. And Tom Loeffler previously stated that GGG wanted to fight Bernard Hopkins at 175lbs.

You may accuse me of being not clued-up about GGG’s resume, which is fine, but I hope you’ve learned a few interesting things from the above list of facts.

If he's been fighting at the same weight for 16 years then that probably tells you he's at the right weight. He'd have moved up long ago if his body couldn't make the weight.

Hagler fought at middleweight theoughout his career and nobody put pressure on him to move up or down.

Golovkin is a middleweight. Accept it and move on.

[oogiebe]

If he's been fighting at the same weight for 16 years then that probably tells you he's at the right weight. He'd have moved up long ago if his body couldn't make the weight.

Hagler fought at middleweight theoughout his career and nobody put pressure on him to move up or down.

Golovkin is a middleweight. Accept it and move on.

Yup. Monzon and dozens others never moved up and are amongst the GOATs.

[Enlightened-One]

Who was there at 160 that he didn't beat?

Many fighters compete at a higher weight at an amateur level, that's nothing new, he is a small middleweight, he's what 5,9 and walks around at fighting weight. Look at the difference between him and Jacobs on fight night.

Again listening to what trainers/promoters isn't going to get you anywhere. It's all he said she said bull. They are paid handsomely to keep Thier fighters in the public eye.

I suppose you were one of the guys that was happy for khan/brook Garcia ect to jump up two weights to get absolutely starched. Why should GGG do that when he's the draw in the division?

As far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever submitting offers and initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since his arrival on the world-scene during 2008 and I was also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to market the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.

I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler & HBO should have made more of an effort to initiate contract negotiations with some of these men that were active middleweights around the same time as Golovkin being world-rated:

• Andy Lee
• Anthony Mundine
• Arthur Abraham
• Daniel Geale (prime, not the shot version)
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Felix Sturm
• Jermain Taylor
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Miguel Cotto
• Peter Quillin
• Sam Soliman
• Sergio Martinez
• And there are probably a few names that I've forgotten about

If Team GGG tried to make these fights by making financial offers to these guys, but failed, because they couldn’t offer them enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".

However, I really doubt that Tom Loeffler even made the effort in the first place… since no one find any evidence to suggest otherwise, but I’m happy to be proven wrong about this.

And as I already stated earlier, it’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.

The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. Only six of his opponents were an inch or more taller than himself and only two of them were included in The RING’s top-ten ratings (Daniel Jacobs and Martin Murray).

We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight.

Finally, the reason why I am disappointed about GGG failing to engage in bouts in other weight classes are three-fold:

• His team persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitats (from 154lbs to 175lbs)
• Other fighters he faced or criticised were willing to take the risk and jumped divisions
• Had he chosen to compete in bouts in other weight classes, then his resume would have been much stronger than it currently is

[ewenhay]

As far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever submitting offers and initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since his arrival on the world-scene during 2008 and I was also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to market the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.

I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler & HBO should have made more of an effort to initiate contract negotiations with some of these men that were active middleweights around the same time as Golovkin being world-rated:

• Andy Lee
• Anthony Mundine
• Arthur Abraham
• Daniel Geale (prime, not the shot version)
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Felix Sturm
• Jermain Taylor
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Miguel Cotto
• Peter Quillin
• Sam Soliman
• Sergio Martinez
• And there are probably a few names that I've forgotten about

If Team GGG tried to make these fights by making financial offers to these guys, but failed, because they couldn’t offer them enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".

However, I really doubt that Tom Loeffler even made the effort in the first place… since no one find any evidence to suggest otherwise, but I’m happy to be proven wrong about this.

And as I already stated earlier, it’s also a statistical fact that 16 of Golovkin’s 22 world title bouts were against men that competed in lower weight classes prior to their bout against the Kazakh.

The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. Only six of his opponents were an inch or more taller than himself and only two of them were included in The RING’s top-ten ratings (Daniel Jacobs and Martin Murray).

We know for certain that GGG has been competing at 165lbs as an amateur and 160lbs as a pro for more than sixteen years, which means he’s not a “small” middleweight.

Finally, the reason why I am disappointed about GGG failing to engage in bouts in other weight classes are three-fold:

• His team persistently boasted about Golovkin’s ability to compete against and also beat the very best fighter's in their natural habitats
• Other fighters he faced or criticised were willing to take the risk and jumped divisions
• Had he chosen to compete in bouts in other weight classes, then his resume would have been much stronger than it currently is

He's a middleweight.

Accept it and move on.

[apollo creed]

He's had how many fights? what do you want from him,? To fight 4 times a year or more? That doesn't happen when you get to the level he was at.

I will not use personal insults but you are obviously not very clued up GGG is a small middleweight. He's would never be able to make 175 without losing what made him so successful at his weight.

Going off what a trainer says is stupid. If we listened to them then every fighter in the world is p4p the best ever.

GGG is not an underachiever, he's achieved a hell of a lot. Some people don't jump up in weight, you shouldn't beat them with a stick over it.

Yup.

Beating Lemieux, Jacobs and Canelo is the most GGG could achieve in the middleweight division in his era considering his age.

[greg]

"The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. "

how critically important is that and what does it prove?

[apollo creed]

He's a middleweight.

Accept it and move on.

Let alone EO. He's just a senile ol' troll with serious ocdc signs. He would even accuse GGG not having a time machine and go back in time to fight prime Monzon, Hagler, Duran, SRL, SRR, Tyson , Lennox etc.

[apollo creed]

Who is Andrade? The guy whose best win is Vanes, and that was very close? GGG would smash him now.

You right man. It all depends on how much gas has GGG left in his tank at 37y/o.

[apollo creed]

"The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. "

how critically important is that and what does it prove?

It's most probably ocdc. I'd not be surprised if EO could get some infos about the 'nuts' size of GGG's opponents to not contest and argue on this forum that GGG fought opponents with small balls and that was a big advantage in G's favor.

[oogiebe]

It's most probably ocdc. I'd not be surprised if EO could get some infos about the 'nuts' size of GGG's opponents to not contest and argue on this forum that GGG fought opponents with small balls and that was a big advantage in G's favor.

No doubt!! LMAO!

[Enlightened-One]

"The average height of a GGG opponent for all 22-world title fights he’s participated in is 5’10”, which is ½ inch shorter than Golovkin himself. "

how critically important is that and what does it prove?

I was responding to a claim about GGG being small, which compelled me to provide a set of stats proving that this wasn’t the case.

Myths keep getting perpetuated but no one bothers to verify their validity.