Poor Luis Ortiz

[Enlightened-One]

Luis Ortiz agreed to face Deontay Wilder for $500K but rejected an opportunity to face AJ for several multiples of that figure, but the Cuban thinks he received a lowball offer?

Give me a break!

[punchoutsb]

If I had to guess I’d imagine Ortiz doesn’t want any drug testing at the moment.

[marvelous marv]

We dont know what the offer was

[Enlightened-One]

Ortiz in February:

“So look, if you want to fight I’m here and stop saying I priced myself out because I’ve never had no offers to fight you. With all respect to you for all you have done, I’ll fight you for just about any money you offer me so if you can’t work out the Miller fight, I’m here and ready. I’ll fight you in the USA or UK. It’s on you and if you think you’re that good and want to test yourself who better than me? Wilder and Fury are not available and I believe in my heart to be the best you must face the best."

The Cuban’s bluff was called.

Ortiz only received $500K for the Wilder bout and I bet the Cuban rejected at least four times that amount for the June 1st Joshua fight.

[diddy]

If I had to guess I’d imagine Ortiz doesn’t want any drug testing at the moment.

bingo was his name-o

[Evander]

How much did Ortiz get offered ?

[Ruthless-RKO]

so you assume its all on hearn then?

Thing with Hearn is.. he claims he ‘works’ for Joshua.

Every offer he made Whyte, he said it was Joshua who made the offer and Hearn only presented the offer.

[Evander]

Probably offered him 1.2/1.3 million and knew he turn it down

[Ruthless-RKO]

Probably offered him 1.2/1.3 million and knew he turn it down

Even though it's a career high for him, what boxers are gonna think is, for the same fight 'x boxer' was gonna be paid 4x that amount. Is it greed? is it a boxer just wanted to maximise his earnings?

Let's not forget, Ortiz fights for his daughter, for her care.

[Deleted_Scenes]

Probably offered him 1.2/1.3 million and knew he turn it down

Even that is 2.5x more than he's ever earned for a fight before.

Given that DAZN were set to spend $40m on purses for Joshua vs Miller though ($32m for Joshua, $8m for Miller), I find it hard to believe Ortiz wasn't made a substantial offer. The money was already in place, and it wasn't even coming out of Hearn's pocket.

Rumour has it Ortiz was demanding $10m. Does that mean he considers any offer below that 'lowball'? If that's the case, the budget wasn't there to support that. He priced himself out of the fight, most likely on the advice of Haymon, and related to future Joshua vs Wilder negotiations.

EDIT: According to the LA Times, PBC have indicated Ortiz will earn roughly the same as Miller would have earned, by fighting a Wilder rematch instead of fighting Joshua (although they state Miller's purse would have been $4.875m, where other sources have given higher figures).

If they're telling Ortiz he can earn $5m for a Wilder rematch (which I find difficult to believe), then it's no surprise he ducked the tougher fight for similar money. The question is, will he actually earn that reported $5m?

[Rob3_142]

Even though it's a career high for him, what boxers are gonna think is, for the same fight 'x boxer' was gonna be paid 4x that amount. Is it greed? is it a boxer just wanted to maximise his earnings?

Let's not forget, Ortiz fights for his daughter, for her care.

I dunno if this is a joke, but not sure tugging on heart strings is going to work in here.

[Rob3_142]

I voted 'other'.

I think Hearn did make an offer (albeit not in the form of a formal contract), which was probably the order of magnitude of the Miller offer (ca. £4-5m). Ortiz has already turned down Whyte for a career high pay day, and probably now Joshua as well.

Another thing to be factored in, Joshua v Ortiz simply makes less money than Joshua v Miller. There was a bit of bite to the original match up. There was 'beef'. Ortiz can't even speak English, how does he think he brings value to this fight? We all know he's a tricky operator, but he's the wrong side of 40 and gives a couple of inches away to Joshua. Rob McCracken will just say jab his head off for 6 rounds, and when he's completely gassed clean him out.

I guess Ortiz doesn't see any value in this fight?

[Thomastearns]

I voted 'other'.

I think Hearn did make an offer (albeit not in the form of a formal contract), which was probably the order of magnitude of the Miller offer (ca. £4-5m). Ortiz has already turned down Whyte for a career high pay day, and probably now Joshua as well.

Another thing to be factored in, Joshua v Ortiz simply makes less money than Joshua v Miller. There was a bit of bite to the original match up. There was 'beef'. Ortiz can't even speak English, how does he think he brings value to this fight? We all know he's a tricky operator, but he's the wrong side of 40 and gives a couple of inches away to Joshua. Rob McCracken will just say jab his head off for 6 rounds, and when he's completely gassed clean him out.

I guess Ortiz doesn't see any value in this fight?

"We all know he's a tricky operator, but he's the wrong side of 40 and gives a couple of inches away to Joshua. Rob McCracken will just say jab his head off for 6 rounds, and when he's completely gassed clean him out."

Yes styles make fights and Ortiz is too old and too slow for Joshua.

Wilder v Ortiz rematch is much more interesting.

[Rob3_142]

Ortiz is only getting older every day. It's the reason why Klitschko did not take the Joshua rematch. The likelihood of Ortiz getting 'better' or 'fitter' is slim. So if he wants to maximise his earnings, he probably does not have time to wait for the right offer to come along. He wants to jump on excellent opportunities as and when they come about, otherwise he's going to disappear into the ether without a trace.

[Enlightened-One]

Here’s Vivek Wallace’s most recent Facebook post about the situation (he’s an American boxing journalist):

After all the recent speculation, looks like Luis Ortiz will have to wait longer for his shot at Anthony Joshua. Rumor has it that Eddie Hearn and Anthony Joshua offered Jarrell "Big Baby" Miller an incentive laden $6M. Sources close to the Ortiz negotiations are saying Ortiz, (a top 3 or 4 HW), was offered in the range of $4.5M.

This info hasnt been confirmed, but when you look at what Joshua, Fury, and Wilder are set to earn their next fight out in this current inflated market, Ortiz is DEFINITELY worth $8M. Anything less fails the test! Just my thoughts....now I'd love to hear YOURS! #TalkToMe #FightFam #LeftHookLounge #BoxingHeadsUnited

For the record, I don’t agree with Vivek’s words because Ortiz stated in February that he was willing to face AJ for any purse, coupled with the fact the Cuban only received $500K for the Wilder fight.

I feel that $4.5m certainly wasn’t a “low ball” offer, considering how little money he generates, coupled with his typical purse size.

The Cuban either ducked AJ or his PBC handlers won’t let him face the Brit, in case it made Wilder look really bad.

[Rob3_142]

$4.5 million was my expected offer (certainly not low-ball), and probably at the very least a good start point.

I'm not sure how Vivek Wallace thinks that Ortiz is worth a third more than Miller, especially considering the value of this fight has just dropped down a peg.

If Ortiz's promoters would have any sense, they would have settled closer to $6m and got this fight on the go.

[greg]

..financial considerations aside, the 40+ year-old Cuban has been offered a title shot with 3 belts at stake..a chance of a lifetime...he'd better give us a better excuse...

PS: so much for the Boogeyman aura I assume..

[Thomastearns]

Here’s Vivek Wallace’s most recent Facebook post about the situation (he’s an American boxing journalist):

After all the recent speculation, looks like Luis Ortiz will have to wait longer for his shot at Anthony Joshua. Rumor has it that Eddie Hearn and Anthony Joshua offered Jarrell "Big Baby" Miller an incentive laden $6M. Sources close to the Ortiz negotiations are saying Ortiz, (a top 3 or 4 HW), was offered in the range of $4.5M.

This info hasnt been confirmed, but when you look at what Joshua, Fury, and Wilder are set to earn their next fight out in this current inflated market, Ortiz is DEFINITELY worth $8M. Anything less fails the test! Just my thoughts....now I'd love to hear YOURS! #TalkToMe #FightFam #LeftHookLounge #BoxingHeadsUnited

For the record, I don’t agree with Vivek’s words because Ortiz stated in February that he was willing to face AJ for any purse, coupled with the fact the Cuban only received $500K for the Wilder fight.

I feel that $4.5m certainly wasn’t a “low ball” offer, considering how little money he generates, coupled with his typical purse size.

The Cuban either ducked AJ or his PBC handlers won’t let him face the Brit, in case it made Wilder look really bad.

"The Cuban either ducked AJ or his PBC handlers won’t let him face the Brit, in case it made Wilder look really bad."

There's definitely more than a hint that certain parties are deliberately holding back or entirely blocking certain matchups for their own purposes. Fair enough, they have their investment to consider, but some of these low ball/fake news shenanigans are getting real tiring.

The boxers, who usually get the blame, are often no more than pieces on somebody else's chessboard.

[Ricky]

Ortiz doesn't have a fight scheduled so at this point in time he'll be juiced up to the max.

[candyslim]

Luis Ortiz was willing to face Deontay Wilder for $500K.

The Cuban ducked AJ.

I look forward to someone brave enough to claim that Eddie Hearn submitted a lowball offer to Luis Ortiz.

Bring it on kids - try to persuade me that “King Kong” didn’t duck the Brit.

Luis Ortiz is a coward - he’s certainly no boogeyman!

I don't think the decision was Ortiz's. It seems to me Haymon is looking to make PBC/WBC a closed shop. Maybe Wilder wanted the $100m too, but was persuaded that it wouldn't be in his best interest. What do we think Wilder is going to make against Breazeale and his subsequent two fights in terms of remuneration?

People like to throw Ortiz’s name around to show they’re serious about fighting top competition, but they have no intention of actually fighting him. It’s all smoke and mirrors. Hearn mentioned his name so the fans will think Ortiz turned down the offer and that’s why we’re stuck with a mediocre opponent, when in fact there never was an offer in the first place. That’s my conspiracy theory anyway.

I'm sure if that were the case Ortiz's people would have said so. He said he had received an offer and was considering it. Do you seriously think if there were no offer Haymon/ Jimnez/ Ortiz would have let people think Luis was scared of AJ or of taking a VADA test?

[Onetimeonly]

If Ortiz has been promised a wilder fight it makes sense he'd hold out for what he wanted for Josh. It's more winnable and if he beat deontay twice the Josh fight is much bigger. No reason for hearn to pay a lot for Luis here when it doesn't generate money and he has Miller as an excuse for losing a bundle here. Ortiz doesn't make cents/sense for either side now.

[Enlightened-One]

I don't think the decision was Ortiz's. It seems to me Haymon is looking to make PBC/WBC a closed shop. Maybe Wilder wanted the $100m too, but was persuaded that it wouldn't be in his best interest. What do we think Wilder is going to make against Breazeale and his subsequent two fights in terms of remuneration?

I agree that the most probable cause for Eddie Hearn's offer being rejected is most likely political. I also sincerely believed that Luis Ortiz was never the “Boogeyman” of the heavyweight division.

So I took the opportunity, rather dishonestly if I say so myself, to mock the Cuban for “ducking”.

I did this in order to be intentionally ironic, since the Cuban has rejected the opportunity to face Dillian Whyte on multiple occasions, as well as AJ, but yet many that frequent this forum will doggedly maintain that the “fearsome” King Kong Ortiz has somehow been “avoided” by the very best the division has to offer, when this clearly isn't the case.

[Rob3_142]

If Ortiz has been promised a wilder fight it makes sense he'd hold out for what he wanted for Josh. It's more winnable and if he beat deontay twice the Josh fight is much bigger. No reason for hearn to pay a lot for Luis here when it doesn't generate money and he has Miller as an excuse for losing a bundle here. Ortiz doesn't make cents/sense for either side now.

Yeah, but I am sure that the 'A candidate' Miller failing a drugs test has somewhat thrown a spanner in the works, and Matchroom are forced to go down a different route. They are not going to cancel this date, so they have to get someone.

There is a bigger picture afoot here. This is AJs US debut. You only get one chance to do this right.

[greg]

..I don't think promoters are great strategists capable of thinking 10 moves ahead...Hearn just wants to find a credible opponent but seems like he's up shite creek without a paddle, NOT HIS fault though..doubt if this whole venture (AJs US debut) will be a success story..

[Onetimeonly]

Yeah, but I am sure that the 'A candidate' Miller failing a drugs test has somewhat thrown a spanner in the works, and Matchroom are forced to go down a different route. They are not going to cancel this date, so they have to get someone.

There is a bigger picture afoot here. This is AJs US debut. You only get one chance to do this right.

Of course, but they werent going to generate significant subscriptions anyway, now they have a scapegoat. May as well pay less and give someone a huge opportunity.