Patterson/Liston 1 interesting article.

[dalcumly]

Came across an interesting article in the Sports Illustrated vault written just after first Patterson/Liston fight.

Patterson on being interviewed claimed that his mind 'lingered' ( I'm assuming from the context he meant 'wondered') during the fight and that this had happened previously. His sparring partner ( I believe his name was Shelton) also said that Floyd was well prepared and confident of beating Liston and he couldn't explain why Floyd's game plan changed in the ring.
Floyd had no recollection of how the fight ended and had to ask his cornermen to explain afterwards.

I was only young at the time and don't remember the press comments afterwards but the article demonstrates that in America at least the majority view was that Patterson was terrified of Liston, that he'd been protected by D'Amato, had taken the 'easy' way out and that they're might have been a betting coup. Later on of course there was the realisation that Floyd was simply destroyed on the night, and in the rematch.
What I've never been able to work out, or hear from anyone on the 'inside' was how Patterson didn't perform differently in the second fight? I doesn't take a tactical genius to work out how to fight Liston to make it more competitive at least! Very deep individual was Patterson, and even up to Liston's death Patterson was still angling for a fight with Liston, even, apparently, a gym session just so he could go 3 minutes within him !!

[oogiebe]

I still think he was scared of Sonny and yes, D'Amato protected him. Saying something else in an article is no surprise. No fighter would ever admit they were scared. The fact that Floyd got into the ring anyway (twice) shows his heart and dedication to the sport. He had to do it.

[Tony1244]

I always thought a late 1960s fight between them would have been interesting.

May have been a hard sell after KO 1 and KO 1 and Liston's apparent dive in Lewiston. But a 3rd fight in say '68 could have had a different outcome.

[APerno]

I still think he was scared of Sonny and yes, D'Amato protected him. Saying something else in an article is no surprise. No fighter would ever admit they were scared. The fact that Floyd got into the ring anyway (twice) shows his heart and dedication to the sport. He had to do it.

Big George readily admitted to being scared of Frazier, but for the most part I agree, especially with a fighter who loses. Do you know if Michael Spinks ever commented on how he felt facing Tyson?

Dempsey admitted to being scared of Willard, but again that was only after he had won. Don't think I can come up with a loser admitting the same.

If you think D'Amato was protecting Patterson, who then besides Liston do you feel he ducked?

D'Amato always contended that he was boycotting the IBC and when Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo went to jail (1961), Patterson, in 1962 took the fight with Liston, (understanding that he had to break with D'Amato to do so), so is it certain that D'Amato was protecting Patterson; isn't it at all possible that D'Amato was just truly reacting to the corruption?

If we take D'Amato at his word, then the question is did he duck anyone else besides Liston? I am not sure how to answer that.

[APerno]

I always thought a late 1960s fight between them would have been interesting.

May have been a hard sell after KO 1 and KO 1 and Liston's apparent dive in Lewiston. But a 3rd fight in say '68 could have had a different outcome.

I stumbled across this, thought you might want to read it.

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/sonn ... ird-fight/

Abstract: "I have heard Floyd Patterson always wanted a third fight with Sonny Liston. He still wanted to prove himself and show he good [SIC] take the Big Bear. If the two had fought a rematch in, say, 1969 or so what would have happened? Patterson was fit and clean living, Sonny was old and had slowed down. It can be argued Floyd was stronger at this point in his life, though he hadn’t really grown much physically. However, he had grown a lot emotionally.

I think a solid case can be made that Floyd would have won a third matchup. After losing to Ali in 1965 Floyd had 16 more fights with only three losses. . . ."

[Tony1244]

I stumbled across this, thought you might want to read it.

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/sonn ... ird-fight/

Abstract: "I have heard Floyd Patterson always wanted a third fight with Sonny Liston. He still wanted to prove himself and show he good [SIC] take the Big Bear. If the two had fought a rematch in, say, 1969 or so what would have happened? Patterson was fit and clean living, Sonny was old and had slowed down. It can be argued Floyd was stronger at this point in his life, though he hadn’t really grown much physically. However, he had grown a lot emotionally.

I think a solid case can be made that Floyd would have won a third matchup. After losing to Ali in 1965 Floyd had 16 more fights with only three losses. . . ."

Very interesting article. Only 2 things I disagree with. He said a Patterson punch grazed Liston in the 2nd fight. Floyd landed a solid looking right hand. Of course to no avail. The other thing is was Ali-Patterson 2 really that close? Ali did look a little bored.

[dalcumly]

I think that D'Amato, after having Rocky Graziano 'stolen' from him, and always being in the 'fringe' as far as the top level of boxing was concerned, revelled in the fact that he now 'controlled ' the world heavyweight title through Patterson and he wasn't about to give it up anytime soon.
We could argue that Floyd ducked Zora Folley, Eddie Machen and Cleveland Williams before fighting Liston but his other challengers were in or around the top ten, except for Rademacher. D'Amato was no fool and I think deep down he knew that Liston was too big and powerful for Floyd.
I wrote a biography of the British middleweight Tony Sibson. Tony told me that at the weigh in for his challenge to Dennis Andries for the light heavyweight title, one of his trainers got him to carry two small lead weights hidden in his trousers when he stepped on the scales. Tony was a sensitive sort and this destroyed his confidence. He believed that his trainer didn't think he'd win and by falsifying his weight making him appear heavier, this might give him an advantage come fight time. Meaning that the trainer thought he needed an advantage. It backfired badly in the fight. After having fought hard for around 8 rounds something inside Tony just gave up and in the end he was falling about the ring from punches he could have shrugged off.
Did Patterson get the impression D'Amato had in fact protected him from the biggest challengers because he thought he couldn't beat them, and this preyed on his mind in the Liston fights?