Poor Luis Ortiz

[oogiebe]

So the truth finally comes out. Ortiz's team thought they could squeeze more money from Matchroom and Hearn. Offered $5 million and their promotor said to hold out for more. Hearn kept his cool and went in another direction and caused panic within the Ortiz camp. Now what will happen? Does/can Ortiz and Jiminez go against the promoter and sign to fight AJ???

[jamamb]

his trainer says it was even more then 5m! wow if they turned that down

ya now they seem desperate, maybe hearn can reoffer them

[oogiebe]

his trainer says it was even more then 5m! wow if they turned that down

ya now they seem desperate, maybe hearn can reoffer them

I hope they make the fight. Ruiz doesn't do it for me. Hunter a bit better, but not that much. Ortiz is the guy for me to be interested in this fight.

[jamamb]

ya, hopefully it can still be salvaged. fat andy is obviously not an itneresting opponent at all, ortiz is probably the best guy outside the top 3 who aj hasnt beaten already

[oogiebe]

WHAT IF:

What if Ortiz was always going to be the guy, but he couldn't test clean. So Hearn and Ortiz's camp concocted this entire scenario to buy time. Give him the extra week or two to cycle off and be able to pass a test. All the while Ortiz is in training for the fight.

Why in the world would I think that?

[Enlightened-One]

Everybody assumed that Eddie Hearn was lying. Multiple forum members claimed that his words couldn’t be considered as being proof.

However, now we’re receiving confirmation from Team Ortiz, immediately after Eddie Hearn threatened to expose them for their lies, they suddenly back-track.

Boxing is a very strange sport, but its fight fans are even weirder.

[ewenhay]

Everybody assumed that Eddie Hearn was lying. Multiple forum members claimed that his words couldn’t be considered as being proof.

However, now we’re receiving confirmation from Team Ortiz, immediately after Eddie Hearn threatened to expose them for their lies, they suddenly back-track.

Boxing is a very strange sport, but its fight fans are even weirder.

Well done, you got something right.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Enlightened-One]

Well done, you got something right.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Thank you for being honourable enough to admit to being proven wrong.

What you’ve just done is very rare and highly-admirable.

[ewenhay]

Thank you for being honourable enough to admit to being proven wrong.

What you’ve just done is very rare and highly-admirable.

No problem. We're all wrong sometimes. It would be foolish not to admit and accept it.

I'm sure you will reciprocate in the future.

[Enlightened-One]

No problem. We're all wrong sometimes. It would be foolish not to admit and accept it.

I'm sure you will reciprocate in the future.

I sure will.

[Evander]

Even that is 2.5x more than he's ever earned for a fight before.

Given that DAZN were set to spend $40m on purses for Joshua vs Miller though ($32m for Joshua, $8m for Miller), I find it hard to believe Ortiz wasn't made a substantial offer. The money was already in place, and it wasn't even coming out of Hearn's pocket.

Rumour has it Ortiz was demanding $10m. Does that mean he considers any offer below that 'lowball'? If that's the case, the budget wasn't there to support that. He priced himself out of the fight, most likely on the advice of Haymon, and related to future Joshua vs Wilder negotiations.

EDIT: According to the LA Times, PBC have indicated Ortiz will earn roughly the same as Miller would have earned, by fighting a Wilder rematch instead of fighting Joshua (although they state Miller's purse would have been $4.875m, where other sources have given higher figures).

If they're telling Ortiz he can earn $5m for a Wilder rematch (which I find difficult to believe), then it's no surprise he ducked the tougher fight for similar money. The question is, will he actually earn that reported $5m?

Wow I didn't know that.
I'm surprised Ortiz would turn down that kind of money.

[Onetimeonly]

No problem. We're all wrong sometimes. It would be foolish not to admit and accept it.

I'm sure you will reciprocate in the future.

Don't hold your breath. He insists that Alvarez fought once last year.

[Rob3_142]

Wow I didn't know that.
I'm surprised Ortiz would turn down that kind of money.

Plus Joshua offers three time the number of belts.

From a sporting perspective, much more value in fighting Joshua.

[candyslim]

WHAT IF:

What if Ortiz was always going to be the guy, but he couldn't test clean. So Hearn and Ortiz's camp concocted this entire scenario to buy time. Give him the extra week or two to cycle off and be able to pass a test. All the while Ortiz is in training for the fight.

Why in the world would I think that?

Oogie you devious old bastard I salute you. whether that is true or not.

Maybe team Ortiz were backed into a corner, but I'm going to be charitable and applaud them for coming clean. If the fight gets made all is forgiven.

At the risk of stating the obvious, this is another example of the mendacious and deceitful Eddie Hearn being found to have been on the level. Will this earn him any credit in the eyes of his detractors? Don't be fukcing silly, Slim.

[kbackup408]

WHAT IF:

What if Ortiz was always going to be the guy, but he couldn't test clean. So Hearn and Ortiz's camp concocted this entire scenario to buy time. Give him the extra week or two to cycle off and be able to pass a test. All the while Ortiz is in training for the fight.

Why in the world would I think that?

you my friend need to contact Vince McMahon - this scenario would be great but sadly ol' Luis has "blood pressure" problems (which is kinda believable considering he is close to 50)

[candyslim]

I've just been watching Tha Boxing Voice and listening to J Jiminez explaining that Luis wants the fight and was happy with the offer, and that he (JJ) has told Luis's promoter that, but the promoter is trying to squeeze more money out of it. Nothing wrong with turning down a first offer of course, but you have to accept that you take the risk there may not be a second one.

Nestor Gibbs was at great pains to point out that no announcement has been made yet, so the fight is salvageable, "Call Hearn and tell him Luis wants the fight". Jiminez was all "Well that's not my job, that's the promoter, don't want to interfere blah, blah, blah".

I got the distinct impression that he was quite happy to see the opportunity disappear over the horizon but what was really bothering him, was that people might blame Luis Ortiz. If I were Luis or Jiminez acting with Luis's authority, I'd tell the promoter get the frigging fight made or we'll sue you for loss of earnings.

Despite all the denials that Luis didn't even know about the offer, it still struck me they are more worried about what the fans are going to think, than losing a huge opportunity / payday to Ruiz or Hunter.

Also Nes gave Jiminez several opportunities to refute what the TBV guys were saying about 500k being Luis's biggest purse. When it was repeatedly pointed out about the offer being 10X his best, or 20X what his promoter asked for, he never said that Luis was paid more than 500k, he just repeated that Luis didn't have a problem with what he was being offered. That strikes me as tantamount to confirming Luis has not earned more than half a million before. As his manager Jiminez would surely know.

[oogiebe]

you my friend need to contact Vince McMahon - this scenario would be great but sadly ol' Luis has "blood pressure" problems (which is kinda believable considering he is close to 50)

I'll call Vince today!

[oogiebe]

Oogie you devious old bastard I salute you. whether that is true or not.

Maybe team Ortiz were backed into a corner, but I'm going to be charitable and applaud them for coming clean. If the fight gets made all is forgiven.

At the risk of stating the obvious, this is another example of the mendacious and deceitful Eddie Hearn being found to have been on the level. Will this earn him any credit in the eyes of his detractors? Don't be fukcing silly, Slim.

Yeah, a bit devious.

[Enlightened-One]

A YouTube video posted 45 minutes ago, detailing Luis Ortiz allegedly blasted his own team (Jorge Carmenate) for rejecting an offer in excess of $5m for the Anthony Joshua bout.

Eddie Hearn has threatened to provide evidence of Team Ortiz’s conduct during contract negotiations within the next few days.

It’s abundantly clear that Luis Ortiz is no longer the Boogeyman of the heavyweight division, since his own team have repeatedly rejected opportunities for their own man to engage in marquee bouts.

It’s not even an issue worth debating anymore, since the admission of guilt has already been delivered.

Therefore, the title of this thread is not only absurd, but it’s actually extremely moronic to even consider such a notion.

I sincerely hope someone aggressively disagrees with the content of this post - bring it on kids!

[oogiebe]

The title of the thread was mean to be sarcastic.

[Enlightened-One]

The title of the thread was mean to be sarcastic.

You blamed Eddie Hearn for failing to deliver what the fans wanted. There was no sarcasm in your words.

After all, you argued that Eddie Hearn deserved to lose credibility for failing to secure the AJ-Ortiz bout, did you not?

You might pretend that you didn’t really mean those words now, but nonetheless, Team Ortiz doesn’t deserve any sympathy from anyone and nor should he be considered as being the Boogeyman of the heavyweight division or even a “ducked” fighter.

I’m assuming by the nature of your response that you really don’t disagree with what I’ve wrote, since it’s categorically impossible to do that?

[oogiebe]

You blamed Eddie Hearn for failing to deliver what the fans wanted. There was no sarcasm in your words.

You might pretend that there is now, but nonetheless, Team Ortiz doesn’t deserve any sympathy from anyone and nor should he be considered as being the Boogeyman of the heavyweight division or even a “ducked” fighter.

I’m assuming by the nature of your response that you really don’t disagree with what I’ve wrote?

The promoter is ultimately responsible for making a fight. I've said that umpteen times on this thread. We've seen through this thread, the situation unfold over time. You obviously missed several pages of posts by many members of the forum. We all saw/read all the rumors; videos; and other sources of this mess. My opinion has been that Ortiz's camp wanted to squeeze Hearn for more money. This was prior to anyone knowing what the initial offer may have been or even if an offer was made. So, no EO, you are not on top of the story any more than anyone else. Once the full story was disclosed, it left only doubt on what actually went down inside of Ortiz's camp. We only know what they are saying now. What we do know is that Ortiz and Jiminez are stating that they clearly want the fight at this point. Whether Hearn sees fit to make that happen is still up in the air. No one on this thread referred to Ortiz as a ducked fighter. Not one. No one referred to him as the Boogeyman either. That's all there is.

[jamamb]

thing is, even if oog was being sarcastic , theres been a big contingent for years moaning about how everyone ducks ortiz and how its so unfortunate for him etc

yet if you actually look at it, you can see him and his ppl have repeatedly made stupid businesses decisions and should only blame themselves

hearn made an excellent offer and they still found a way to mess up

[oogiebe]

thing is, even if oog was being sarcastic , theres been a big contingent for years moaning about how everyone ducks ortiz and how its so unfortunate for him etc

yet if you actually look at it, you can see him and his ppl have repeatedly made stupid businesses decisions and should only blame themselves

hearn made an excellent offer and they still found a way to mess up

Really messed it up. Deal of a lifetime for a forty year old fighter like Ortiz. I'm still hoping it somehow comes together. I think that whole ducking Ortiz was just plain old self-promoting. I never paid too much attention to it.

[Enlightened-One]

The promoter is ultimately responsible for making a fight. I've said that umpteen times on this thread. We've seen through this thread, the situation unfold over time. You obviously missed several pages of posts by many members of the forum. We all saw/read all the rumors; videos; and other sources of this mess. My opinion has been that Ortiz's camp wanted to squeeze Hearn for more money. This was prior to anyone knowing what the initial offer may have been or even if an offer was made. So, no EO, you are not on top of the story any more than anyone else. Once the full story was disclosed, it left only doubt on what actually went down inside of Ortiz's camp. We only know what they are saying now. What we do know is that Ortiz and Jiminez are stating that they clearly want the fight at this point. Whether Hearn sees fit to make that happen is still up in the air. No one on this thread referred to Ortiz as a ducked fighter. Not one. No one referred to him as the Boogeyman either. That's all there is.

Only the manager is responsible for protecting the interests of the fighter.

This is clearly detailed in the federal law Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act.

This is not something new. Luis Ortiz and his manager shouldn’t be looking for scapegoats.

They were either too lazy to perform their own duties or they wrongly expected others to do it for them.

In order to continue engaging in this debate, you really do need to understand the roles performed by a manager and a promoter.