If Miller hadn't been caught...

[leejonesjnr]

Presumably Jarrell Miller has been doping for some time and either not been tested or wasn't let down by poor masking agents up until now.
With that in mind, should Miller have made it to the ring without failing a test, who really would have suffered because of it?
My feeling is that it would have allowed him to keep going longer than he otherwise would, but was fairly sure of a sound beating and may have simply been able to absorb far more punishment than would be possible without suffering lasting effects.
I believe that it is better for Miller that he was caught rather than Joshua from a health point of view.

[jamamb]

for his health, its defo better for sure that he didnt face aj. though i doubt he wouldve been traumatically permanantly injured.

for his bank account , defo not better of course

dude was making enough to be set for life for most ppl , shouldve just switched off peds and taken the inevitable beating. part of his deal was that if he lost to aj hed still be guarnteed 2 fights after for 1.5m each, so hed still have it very nice even with a lose .

[coneye]

Seen a interview with Whyte where he said , who's suprised and mentioned Miller throwing a phenomeal amount of punches in the 10-11-12th rnd against someone else .
So heres another scenario .

Miller did'nt get caught
Miller with a drug enhanced chin , survied the first 6 rnds at a hard pace .
Miller did'nt get tired ,
AJ got tired .
Miller came out throwing 200 punches a rnd in rnd 10-11-12 .
At that size and weight Miller hurt AJ
AJ shown heart and absorbed heavy blows from a Monster of a man
AJ got seriously hurt or even if he did'nt and survived
AJ lost his title to a fooking cheat

Best case scenario Miller banned for life , but i just read somewhere he got banned for 6 months

WHAT NOW .... Promoters should play judge and jury and start REFUSING to have DRUG CHEATS on there shows , The sport CAN be cleaned up it just doesnt , WANT TOO

[Pukka Cheese]

IMO Miller is not good enough to beat Joshua.
A failed test doesnt change that...

[tobyh5]

Well this thread has decided to ignore the elephant in the room - AJ and assistance.

Oh, of course, he has never failed a test, has been tested blah blah times and is blah blah clean.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

[Datsue]

I believe that it is better for Miller that he was caught rather than Joshua from a health point of view.

I don't wanna start or anything, but I think this thread is a classic example of how boxing people see the wrong fecking end of stuff like PED abuse (& to a slightly lesser extent, weight-cheating, whether or not that involves shit-loads of diuretics & feck-knows what else to achieve it—looking at you, Canelo/Chavez Jr/Luis Nery etc etc etc). They make fundamental category errors that simply don't acknowledge the situation, & gloss over what's really important.

See, the crux of it, for me, is the sentence above, that I've quoted.

Miller took drugs so he could throw punches like a madman in the later rounds when a huge slob like him should be exhausted. So, I'd say, what about the health detriments of all the poor pudenda who might not have received quite so much brain damage if Miller wasn't able to fight like that in the later rounds (when, after all, as is documented, the majority of life-changing damage & serious injuries occur)?

Again, I'd like to make it clear it's not about winning or losing or whether Miller "deserves" to fight for a title or even if Joshua's on them too (although, of course, it is, in a way, just not in the way that people seem to mean when they bring it up), & I'm not having a go at you, Lee.

I just get mystified when people seem to miss the massively obvious point, which for me is: who in their right mind gives a flying fvck about Miller's health, when he's beaten up a load of poor bastards who arguably wouldn't have been quite so badly beaten up had the fat pudendum not been juiced up past the gunwales?

PS: The reason I brought up taking the piss with the weight is 'cos boxing people do the same thing; "Oh no we can't have same-day weigh ins 'cos the cheats can't be trusted not to hurt themselves", they go, blithely ignoring all the poor pudenda who won't be able to remember their mothers' faces due to getting shellacked by someone much, much bigger & stronger.

To me, this entire attitude seems like hearing some pudendum's removed the padding from their gloves & then worrying about the state of their knuckles...

[leejonesjnr]

I don't wanna start or anything, but I think this thread is a classic example of how boxing people see the wrong fecking end of stuff like PED abuse (& to a slightly lesser extent, weight-cheating, whether or not that involves shit-loads of diuretics & feck-knows what else to achieve it—looking at you, Canelo/Chavez Jr/Luis Nery etc etc etc). They make fundamental category errors that simply don't acknowledge the situation, & gloss over what's really important.

See, the crux of it, for me, is the sentence above, that I've quoted.

Miller took drugs so he could throw punches like a madman in the later rounds when a huge slob like him should be exhausted. So, I'd say, what about the health detriments of all the poor pudenda who might not have received quite so much brain damage if Miller wasn't able to fight like that in the later rounds (when, after all, as is documented, the majority of life-changing damage & serious injuries occur)?

Again, I'd like to make it clear it's not about winning or losing or whether Miller "deserves" to fight for a title or even if Joshua's on them too (although, of course, it is, in a way, just not in the way that people seem to mean when they bring it up), & I'm not having a go at you, Lee.

I just get mystified when people seem to miss the massively obvious point, which for me is: who in their right mind gives a flying fvck about Miller's health, when he's beaten up a load of poor bastards who arguably wouldn't have been quite so badly beaten up had the fat pudendum not been juiced up past the gunwales?

PS: The reason I brought up taking the piss with the weight is 'cos boxing people do the same thing; "Oh no we can't have same-day weigh ins 'cos the cheats can't be trusted not to hurt themselves", they go, blithely ignoring all the poor pudenda who won't be able to remember their mothers' faces due to getting shellacked by someone much, much bigger & stronger.

To me, this entire attitude seems like hearing some pudendum's removed the padding from their gloves & then worrying about the state of their knuckles...

Theres no hint of anything offensive to me there, just seems like you are responding to something nobody on this thread has said.

[Stuarty]

He'd have still got whipped!

[leejonesjnr]

He'd have still got whipped!

I believe so too, what I was really asking was would he have taken a more serious beating as a result of doping?

[kbackup408]

You make a good point it can't be healthy taking EPO every other month that is asking for a stroke!

[leejonesjnr]

Presumably past opponents are likely to take legal action now? Loss of earnings etc?

[oogiebe]

Presumably past opponents are likely to take legal action now? Loss of earnings etc?

I would love to see that but they'd have to prove he was using at that time of the fight.

[jamamb]

Presumably past opponents are likely to take legal action now? Loss of earnings etc?

seems to pretty much never happen

[Stuarty]

I believe so too, what I was really asking was would he have taken a more serious beating as a result of doping?

Not sure tbh mate but I don't really know a lot about PEDs. Miller is a decent fundamental boxer and quick for his size so I would imagine he'd have been a bit of a puzzle early on. Do PEDs make you quicker? Miller always had a decent engine for a big lad and had a bit of speed about him.

[HeavyHitters]

Jarrell should try and adopt the "Crab Defense" implemented by 'Big' George Foreman.

He's such a big target for the likes of AJ, he better come up with a good defense!

[KiwiRider]

Miller would have got his clock cleaned around the same time, PED's or not. His defence isn't there, that's the main point.
No matter if the drugs made him faster with more stamina, he would still be knocked out when Joshua landed his big shots.
The fight was never headed past 7-8 rounds anyway. No point in having stamina if you never make it to round 8.

[Stuarty]

Jarrell should try and adopt the "Crab Defense" implemented by 'Big' George Foreman.

He's such a big target for the likes of AJ, he better come up with a good defense!

Do you think he is capable of selling as many grills as big George though