Link to read the La Motta - Cerdan fight report
re
>>>I don't think Nero has any archives... he's just making it up as he goes along...<<<
I think you are correct, in fact I would bet the deed to my house that you are correct...unless he considers the ProQuest and NewspaperArchive database as "his" archives, but other than the newspaper report he has not provided anything that would hint at an archive!
I think you are correct, in fact I would bet the deed to my house that you are correct...unless he considers the ProQuest and NewspaperArchive database as "his" archives, but other than the newspaper report he has not provided anything that would hint at an archive!
re
Also, isn't it kind of ironic now that quite a bit of evidence has been provided Nero has all of a sudden lost interest? I don't blame him though...If I were going up against me in this kind of debate I would run away to, that is unless I had some actual proof to back me up...I guess Nero just doesn't have the proof eh 
Re: re
Well perhaps despite appearences, he's actually bright enough to figure out that the gathering weight of evidence is going against him!. Its a relief really as I was starting to worry that I'd woken up in a twilight zone where Cedan had beaten Lamotta, Primo Carnera was heavyweight champion for 12 years and made 25 defences and England won the football world cup 5 times in a row, John Ruiz was entertaining to watch and James Toney was a skinny Featherweight!. 8)barry wrote:Also, isn't it kind of ironic now that quite a bit of evidence has been provided Nero has all of a sudden lost interest? I don't blame him though...If I were going up against me in this kind of debate I would run away to, that is unless I had some actual proof to back me up...I guess Nero just doesn't have the proof eh
From the Cerdan website; "translated" from the Babel Fish site, "average" from the French 'moyen' means middle! It is a little bit 'broken' English, from the literal French, but easy to follow none-the-less!
THE CATASTROPHE OF DETROIT (1949) America, jealous to have seen a world title escaping to him, proposes in Cerdan a challenger, Jake Motta. Some say that it is the foal of the Maffia very powerful in the medium of boxing in the United States. How to differently explain this choice, whereas Motta is only the 10th world average weight, and that its combat against Billy Fox and Villemain were at the very least doubtful, itself having admitted in its autobiography to have cheated on the instigation of the Maffia? With the end of their meeting, Marcel congratulates his adversary, ironic: without this wound, Motta would not have had any chance. It does not have any doubt that it will regain its title easily. Moreover, the new Yorkean organizers refuse the contract and it is finally in Briggs Stadium de Detroit, in the open air, that is held the meeting. June 17, 1949, Marcel Cerdan loses his title of Champion of the World against Jake Motta. This evening, the organizers of Detroit have advanced the combat of half an hour Cerdan. Marcel does not have time to warm up several rounds like it usually does it. In the United States, all is new with each combat: groundsheet, shoes, gloves... As of the blow of gong, Motta spouts out of its corner and precipitates on Marcel. On a push, Cerdan slips and to catch up with itself, its left arm tends behind. It luxates the shoulder. It cannot gain any more, Motta does not release it and its pain is too sharp. Marcel wants to continue, but with the 11th round it gives up on the councils of its manager. In spite of her defeat, Parisian crowd accomodates her champion preferred as hero. This happiness of the public, in spite of the defeat, returns in Cerdan its courage and the will to reconquer its title. Pretexting a wound with the right shoulder, Motta cancels their match revenge of September 28. A new date is taken: December 2, 1949 in Madison Garden Public garden. Marcel decides to complete on the spot his drive with the camp Loch Sheldrake a few kilometres from New York. At best of its form, certain of its victory, it declares with the readers of France-Evening on October 26, the day before of its departure for the United States: "With regard to the result of my match against Motta, I will be very affirmative: the question of a defeat cannot arise. I must beat Motta, I will beat it. Once for a silly thing, a stupid accident, Motta had me... It is too already much. In fact, I have prepared this championship for more than 6 months. I am already well. I will be perfect on December 2 ".
THE CATASTROPHE OF DETROIT (1949) America, jealous to have seen a world title escaping to him, proposes in Cerdan a challenger, Jake Motta. Some say that it is the foal of the Maffia very powerful in the medium of boxing in the United States. How to differently explain this choice, whereas Motta is only the 10th world average weight, and that its combat against Billy Fox and Villemain were at the very least doubtful, itself having admitted in its autobiography to have cheated on the instigation of the Maffia? With the end of their meeting, Marcel congratulates his adversary, ironic: without this wound, Motta would not have had any chance. It does not have any doubt that it will regain its title easily. Moreover, the new Yorkean organizers refuse the contract and it is finally in Briggs Stadium de Detroit, in the open air, that is held the meeting. June 17, 1949, Marcel Cerdan loses his title of Champion of the World against Jake Motta. This evening, the organizers of Detroit have advanced the combat of half an hour Cerdan. Marcel does not have time to warm up several rounds like it usually does it. In the United States, all is new with each combat: groundsheet, shoes, gloves... As of the blow of gong, Motta spouts out of its corner and precipitates on Marcel. On a push, Cerdan slips and to catch up with itself, its left arm tends behind. It luxates the shoulder. It cannot gain any more, Motta does not release it and its pain is too sharp. Marcel wants to continue, but with the 11th round it gives up on the councils of its manager. In spite of her defeat, Parisian crowd accomodates her champion preferred as hero. This happiness of the public, in spite of the defeat, returns in Cerdan its courage and the will to reconquer its title. Pretexting a wound with the right shoulder, Motta cancels their match revenge of September 28. A new date is taken: December 2, 1949 in Madison Garden Public garden. Marcel decides to complete on the spot his drive with the camp Loch Sheldrake a few kilometres from New York. At best of its form, certain of its victory, it declares with the readers of France-Evening on October 26, the day before of its departure for the United States: "With regard to the result of my match against Motta, I will be very affirmative: the question of a defeat cannot arise. I must beat Motta, I will beat it. Once for a silly thing, a stupid accident, Motta had me... It is too already much. In fact, I have prepared this championship for more than 6 months. I am already well. I will be perfect on December 2 ".
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Cmon Collins...so far it's just "heated debate" And people do keep circling around back to the subject. The language has not gone over the deep end, I don't consider this trolling and the name calling though evident has not been overly indulged. Are you suggesting it needs locking because you are offended?
No need Nero, I don't share barry's opinion of you personally. I may not lean toward you viewpoint but I don't think your making this up from whole cloth. I think you've looked over the info and came to different conclusion. Only you know if you started out with your conclusion and are attempting to spin things to suit or if these are your conclusions based on your findings. barry plays hardball around here, you just need to get thick skinned is all.Nero3000 wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:just what it takes to become a good fiction writer.....you have to go with your strengths.
Hey, if you've been offended here I'd be more than willing to make it up to you. I respect both your opinion and your approach. So if there's anything you want from the LA Times Historical Archive- a fight report or anything- just say the word and it'll be sent to you. From the 1800s to the mid-80s.
Just to show you I'm not as arrogant as I sometimes appear
Aloha and Mahalo
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Just checking the ground rules, mate.BoxBuzz wrote:Cmon Collins...so far it's just "heated debate" And people do keep circling around back to the subject. The language has not gone over the deep end, I don't consider this trolling and the name calling though evident has not been overly indulged. Are you suggesting it needs locking because you are offended?
So when certain idiots (to use what now seems to be an acceptable name for other posters now) start whining, I can be sure you'll be applying the same rules?
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
BoxBuzz wrote:No need Nero, I don't share barry's opinion of you personally. I may not lean toward you viewpoint but I don't think your making this up from whole cloth. I think you've looked over the info and came to different conclusion. Only you know if you started out with your conclusion and are attempting to spin things to suit or if these are your conclusions based on your findings. barry plays hardball around here, you just need to get thick skinned is all.Nero3000 wrote:BoxBuzz wrote:just what it takes to become a good fiction writer.....you have to go with your strengths.
Hey, if you've been offended here I'd be more than willing to make it up to you. I respect both your opinion and your approach. So if there's anything you want from the LA Times Historical Archive- a fight report or anything- just say the word and it'll be sent to you. From the 1800s to the mid-80s.
Just to show you I'm not as arrogant as I sometimes appear
Aloha and Mahalo
I don't think anyone has a problem with barry's hardball, mate. The problem is when he starts deleting posts of the people who play hardball back at him.
Barry can call me an idiot all he wants as long as I am allowed to call him the same without his head exploding and him deleting posts like a fekking nutter.
Now you have put yourself in the frame, buzzy, tell me if that sounds fair.
as long as the names arent getting into hateful or racist territory I think we can blow off steam at each other to some degree. However each moderator calls it as he sees it. I tend to lock threads and let the record speak for itself. I have no idea if barry is guilty of that which you speak. I also have no ability to influence his actions. I know that you and barry have some bad blood based on history that I'm only somewhat aware.....I'll likely stay out of that if possible.
Honestly I like spirited debate, I'm less a fan of anger blowing over the threadwaves just for drama sake.
Honestly I like spirited debate, I'm less a fan of anger blowing over the threadwaves just for drama sake.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
hahahah, show some balls, mate. You don't know if he called someone an idiot? You've been over the thread 100 times, buddy, so you do know.BoxBuzz wrote:as long as the names arent getting into hateful or racist territory I think we can blow off steam at each other to some degree. However each moderator calls it as he sees it. I tend to lock threads and let the record speak for itself. I have no idea if barry is guilty of that which you speak. I also have no ability to influence his actions. I know that you and barry have some bad blood based on history that I'm only somewhat aware.....I'll likely stay out of that if possible.
Honestly I like spirited debate, I'm less a fan of anger blowing over the threadwaves just for drama sake.
Ok. so you don't want to upset him. Fine. I can understand that as he would go ape-shit wouldn't he. But why not update your fancy rules to show they don't apply to certain posters?
re
>>>I don't think anyone has a problem with barry's hardball, mate. The problem is when he starts deleting posts of the people who play hardball back at him.<<<
I rarely ever delete your posts and when I do it certainly isn't because you were calling me names...if that was the case you wouldn't have but a handful of total posts all together, so enough with the making up shit, but then again you have always made up shit!
>>>However each moderator calls it as he sees it. I tend to lock threads and let the record speak for itself. I have no idea if barry is guilty of that which you speak.<<<
No I'm not...that is just one of the many lies that Collins has made up over the past year.
I rarely ever delete your posts and when I do it certainly isn't because you were calling me names...if that was the case you wouldn't have but a handful of total posts all together, so enough with the making up shit, but then again you have always made up shit!
>>>However each moderator calls it as he sees it. I tend to lock threads and let the record speak for itself. I have no idea if barry is guilty of that which you speak.<<<
No I'm not...that is just one of the many lies that Collins has made up over the past year.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Re: re
Hi barry, why don't you post the response shep sent to us BOTH, mate? He wasn't too happy about your whining either was he?barry wrote:Collins you already whined to John to no avail, what makes you think that Buzz is going to see your way? I've never seen anyone whine as much as you!
Anyway, I am just trying to understand the rules.
So, is calling someone who disgarees with you an idiot now acceptable behaviour. Yes or no?
re
Since when has it ever been considered to not be acceptable behavior? The rules have never really been enforced only on a couple of occasions for the few that have been banned, other than that there has never been any real enforcing of the rules!
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
silkov wrote:Indeed. But then unfortunately, you're from that nasty place NY so youre biased. Nero thinks all NewYorkers go to bed in Jake Lamotta Pajamas while playing reruns of 'Raging Bull'....Broncano wrote:Am I the only one who is reminded of our departed friend Terap after reading these threads?
HAHAHAHAHA LMAO-
BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 00:32
Re: re
I pretty much can not be bated so forget about that strategy Collins.Collins2000 wrote:Hi barry, why don't you post the response shep sent to us BOTH, mate? He wasn't too happy about your whining either was he?barry wrote:Collins you already whined to John to no avail, what makes you think that Buzz is going to see your way? I've never seen anyone whine as much as you!
Anyway, I am just trying to understand the rules.
So, is calling someone who disgarees with you an idiot now acceptable behaviour. Yes or no?
I noticed you didn't quote me when I further defined the parameters of namecalling which means to me you choose to willfully manipulate and spin for dramatic effect. (By the way... Moron, Imbecile, and Idiot are not names they are a diagnosis) Blowing off steam with terms like that is harmless and I suspect you understand that Collins.
You've seen enough of my posts to know where I'm headed with this....hatespeech gets my attention, when anger exceeds reasonable bounds and the namecalling reaches a certain venemous level I will intervene, ask for calm and if does not manifest I'll do what is needed to restore civility to the best of my ability. I will identify what I am doing and why I am doing it. I have even announced a one week moratorium on vicious exchanges and restored a thread back to open inventory for people to revisit. I felt the topic in that case deserved that type of attention.
Like a certain referee...I'm fair but firm. I have no problem with people getting into intellectual pugilism but when it's below the belt I will take action. I won't always get it right but I'll do the best I can. I will do my best to act honorably.
This forum exists to let people take their conversations anywhere they want to go if they are generally on topic, and without hate or ill intent.
There is not a word of what I'm saying that you don't already know and understand. Anyone who treats this forum and it's contributors with respect will get my respect.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
Re: re
BoxBuzz wrote:I pretty much can not be bated so forget about that strategy Collins.Collins2000 wrote:Hi barry, why don't you post the response shep sent to us BOTH, mate? He wasn't too happy about your whining either was he?barry wrote:Collins you already whined to John to no avail, what makes you think that Buzz is going to see your way? I've never seen anyone whine as much as you!
Anyway, I am just trying to understand the rules.
So, is calling someone who disgarees with you an idiot now acceptable behaviour. Yes or no?
I noticed you didn't quote me when I further defined the parameters of namecalling which means to me you choose to willfully manipulate and spin for dramatic effect. (By the way... Moron, Imbecile, and Idiot are not names they are a diagnosis) Blowing off steam with terms like that is harmless and I suspect you understand that Collins.
You've seen enough of my posts to know where I'm headed with this....hatespeech gets my attention, when anger exceeds reasonable bounds and the namecalling reaches a certain venemous level I will intervene, ask for calm and if does not manifest I'll do what is needed to restore civility to the best of my ability. I will identify what I am doing and why I am doing it. I have even announced a one week moratorium on vicious exchanges and restored a thread back to open inventory for people to revisit. I felt the topic in that case deserved that type of attention.
Like a certain referee...I'm fair but firm. I have no problem with people getting into intellectual pugilism but when it's below the belt I will take action. I won't always get it right but I'll do the best I can. I will do my best to act honorably.
This forum exists to let people take their conversations anywhere they want to go if they are generally on topic, and without hate or ill intent.
There is not a word of what I'm saying that you don't already know and understand. Anyone who treats this forum and it's contributors with respect will get my respect.
In the light of this waffle explain the deletion of Nero's posts today, mate. I didn't see any, to quote you, "hate or ill intent" in them but you or your pal still deleted them.
Don't write several paragraphs of meaningless platitudes. Just tell me exactly why they were deleted.
not guilty....I think you know that....and your disingenuisness trumps my plattitudes by a good margin....ask Decagon for the betting odds on that one.
Do you know that indeed someone other than nero truly deleted anything? I have not read every contribution here. If it is true that would be between Nero and the person who took that action.
Do you know that indeed someone other than nero truly deleted anything? I have not read every contribution here. If it is true that would be between Nero and the person who took that action.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4175
- Joined: 06 May 2002, 06:13
It IS true and maybe it isn't my business but I'm sick of decent posters being driven away by your buddy's behaviour.BoxBuzz wrote:not guilty....I think you know that....and your disingenuisness trumps my plattitudes by a good margin....ask Decagon for the betting odds on that one.
Do you know that indeed someone other than nero truly deleted anything? I have not read every contribution here. If it is true that would be between Nero and the person who took that action.
Anyway, I'm obviously wasting my time. Once again what was at one point a decent, if heated, boxing discussion has been ruined by stupid fekkin attacks by someone who claims to be moderating the forum. Yes, calling someone an idiot is the epitome of intelligent debate.
Say whatever you have to say and we'll leave it there.