greg wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 09:55
..well, there's almost always a certain euphoria right after the match once one boxer takes out the other one ....speaking of Wilder's punch let's not forget he dropped Fury twice and both times Fury got to his feet and according to many even won that fight..any reason why AJ won't be able to be at least that effective..
Of course you are quite right about the euphoria. Fury got up true enough and you can point to the fights with Stiverne (1st one) and the struggles he had with Duhaupas, Molina etc but all great punchers have similar struggles, you can point to any of them and find occasions where the big punch went missing.
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 10:16
There was a sequence in last night's fight where Wilder had Breazeale staggering backwards from an overhand right. Sensing an opportunity, Wilder starts windmilling away, yet despite showing pretty much zero defence, Breazeale didn't get hit once. Instead, Breazeale was the one who landed, putting Wilder on less than steady legs for a few seconds.
There's why I can't see Wilder beating Joshua. That same exchange, between Wilder and Joshua, ends with Wilder flat on his back. Barring a freak single-shot KO (which I can't see happening early, against an elite opponent), Joshua is going to have far more opportunities to lay the hurt on Wilder than vice-versa.
More opportunities + greater accuracy = one winner. People shouldn't be reading too much into how quickly Wilder got rid of Breazeale.
Yeah that was the sequence I alluded to in a previous post. Joshua is a very clinical finisher and he would never have lost from that position.
Joshua doesn't have enough movement and isn't cute enough to avoid Wilder.
People think Joshua is better than he is not surprising given the media circus particularly in the UK but he's the third best heavyweight out there. His best win was a 50/50 fight against Klitschko who was at least five years beyond his peak. He couldn't lay a glove on Fury.
Ian1973 wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 10:27
Joshua doesn't have enough movement and isn't cute enough to avoid Wilder.
People think Joshua is better than he is not surprising given the media circus particularly in the UK but he's the third best heavyweight out there. His best win was a 50/50 fight against Klitschko who was at least five years beyond his peak. He couldn't lay a glove on Fury.
Time will reveal:
1 Fury
2 Wilder
3 Joshua
He doesn’t have to avoid Wilder. He shouldn’t look at Fury for inspiration, he had to avoid Wilder as he wouldn’t get the better of him if he took the fight to him. Joshua can take the fight to him, beat Wilder to the punch and knock him out. The questions might well be, can Wilder avoid Joshua?
lillywhite14 wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 10:33
He doesn’t have to avoid Wilder. He shouldn’t look at Fury for inspiration, he had to avoid Wilder as he wouldn’t get the better of him if he took the fight to him. Joshua can take the fight to him, beat Wilder to the punch and knock him out. The questions might well be, can Wilder avoid Joshua?
Joshua has thudding power. Wilder looks ungainly sometimes because of his skinny legs mainly but he will take a thudding shot. Once Wilder lands a proper shot on A.J's chin it'll be all over. If not straight away it will knock Joshua senseless and Wilder will finish him off. If you watch the Klitschko fight again Wlad really should've finished Joshua. Had he been five years younger he probably would've done. That is by a distance Joshua's toughest fight. He scrambled through it against an old man albeit a very good old man.
With regards to Wilder being staggered or on shaky legs in the exchange in the corner, please watch again. He was knocked off-balance and not hurt by any means. He pulled himself back as to not windmill recognizing that Breazeale wasn't as hurt as he may have thought and put himself back together (patience he called it) and soon after ended it with the devastating right. That sequence was, to me, indicative of good gym work.
oogiebe wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 10:52
With regards to Wilder being staggered or on shaky legs in the exchange in the corner, please watch again. He was knocked off-balance and not hurt by any means. He pulled himself back as to not windmill recognizing that Breazeale wasn't as hurt as he may have thought and put himself back together (patience he called it) and soon after ended it with the devastating right. That sequence was, to me, indicative of good gym work.
Yes. I am wondering what people were watching that think Breazeale had him hurt
As much as I dislike him I pick Wilder. Two who I believe could beat Wilder are Fury and Usyk.
Question: Is Wilder being legitimately drug tested? Or is it just the gangster drug test crew in Las Vegas? Wilder's brother recently failed a drug test.
Last edited by Ilya Muromets on 19 May 2019, 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
Tony1244 wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 12:29
Wilder wasn't hurt last night. He just got hit.
I'd like to see the replay but I can't find the full round showing it. I was distracted so didn't really see it but I heard the announcer say Wilder's legs were wobbled and then I watched and saw B just hanging back doing nothing.
By the way I can't stand that hysterically bellowing announcer. He should be doing wrestling or something instead.
Last edited by Ilya Muromets on 19 May 2019, 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
DrDuke wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 12:40
Not just hit, he felt it. He was stunned a bit. He was even pushed backwards with the punches and decided to clinch after that.
He was knocked off balance. Watch again. it's pretty obvious.
DrDuke wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 12:40
Not just hit, he felt it. He was stunned a bit. He was even pushed backwards with the punches and decided to clinch after that.
That's boxing. He felt it and he may have been pushed a bit backward, but stunned is a bit strong. His legs were fine, despite the hysterical announcer as another poster alluded to. Deontay even had the where with all to motion that he was hit on the back of the head, which he wasn't.
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 10:16There was a sequence in last night's fight where Wilder had Breazeale staggering backwards from an overhand right. Sensing an opportunity, Wilder starts windmilling away, yet despite showing pretty much zero defence, Breazeale didn't get hit once. Instead, Breazeale was the one who landed, putting Wilder on less than steady legs for a few seconds.
There's why I can't see Wilder beating Joshua. That same exchange, between Wilder and Joshua, ends with Wilder flat on his back. Barring a freak single-shot KO (which I can't see happening early, against an elite opponent), Joshua is going to have far more opportunities to lay the hurt on Wilder than vice-versa.
More opportunities + greater accuracy = one winner. People shouldn't be reading too much into how quickly Wilder got rid of Breazeale.
That's just what I was talking about on the other thread. B didn't seize the moment and follow up. He just stood back doing nothing. Similar thing happened in the Molina fight. I thought that Molina deliberately backed off.
Looking for a Wilder weak link to justify picking Joshua over him?
His being staggered or decked might be a legit reason to go with Brit.
But Joshua has been staggered, knocked off balance and even knocked down too.
So it's a wash.
If you're going to include getting hit and then reacting to it as a criteria for potential defeat, remember that plenty of unquestionable greats have also been rattled (and dropped) by punches.
Persevering and overcoming adversity after being solidly tagged is all that's important.
SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 12:52
Hurt. Knocked off balance. Knocked down.
Why does it matter?
Looking for a Wilder weak link to justify picking Joshua over him?
His being staggered or decked might be a legit reason to go with Brit.
But Joshua has been staggered, knocked off balance and even knocked down too.
So it's a wash.
If you're going to include getting hit and then reacting to it as a criteria for potential defeat, remember that plenty of unquestionable greats have also been rattled (and dropped) by punches.
Persevering and overcoming adversity after being solidly tagged is all that's important.
But they didn't have their own actors playing ringside doctor and referee along to help them out of tight spots. And sometimes it seems rather odd that his adversaries seem to deliberately back off when they get him in trouble.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 13:17
But they didn't have their own actors playing ringside doctor and referee along to help them out of tight spots. And sometimes it seems rather odd that his adversaries seem to deliberately back off when they get him in trouble.
Now you're getting silly. Suck it up and admit that Wilder is the most dangerous HW today. Not the best (AJ is), but the most dangerous.
SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 12:52
Hurt. Knocked off balance. Knocked down.
Why does it matter?
Looking for a Wilder weak link to justify picking Joshua over him?
His being staggered or decked might be a legit reason to go with Brit.
But Joshua has been staggered, knocked off balance and even knocked down too.
So it's a wash.
If you're going to include getting hit and then reacting to it as a criteria for potential defeat, remember that plenty of unquestionable greats have also been rattled (and dropped) by punches.
Persevering and overcoming adversity after being solidly tagged is all that's important.
It's nothing to do with Wilder getting hurt. It's Wilder's total lack of control and shítty accuracy every time he slightly buzzes an opponent that's the problem. He's totally wide open for a well selected counter - especially a vicious uppercut.
Wilder's lack of fundamentals and ring iq is what gets him beat. Anyone can overcome adversity if the other guy stops throwing after landing one.
oogiebe wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 13:43
Now you're getting silly. Suck it up and admit that Wilder is the most dangerous HW today. Not the best (AJ is), but the most dangerous.
I wake up and immediately read the same old conspiracy fables.
Breazeale backed off because it was fixed. And then he let Wilder take his head off with a Saturday night bomb because it was fixed.
Some guys even claim that they saw Joe Walcott and Nat Fleischer orchestrating everything from ringside.
oogiebe wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 13:43
Now you're getting silly. Suck it up and admit that Wilder is the most dangerous HW today. Not the best (AJ is), but the most dangerous.
I have a bad habit of remembering things I'm not supposed to, and not just boxing. But round eight in the Ortiz fight happened and the announcer did yell, "They can't do that!" But they did that.
I agree with your least sentence.
Re the next guy - aside from the nonsense - I didn't think Brez. standing off when he hurt Wilder was suspicious, I just thought he failed to seize the moment. Maybe he was hurt himself. Molina may have been a different story.
Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 14:15
I have a bad habit of remembering things I'm not supposed to, and not just boxing. But round eight in the Ortiz fight happened and the announcer did yell, "They can't do that!" But they did that.
I agree with your least sentence.
Re the next guy - aside from the nonsense - I didn't think Brez. standing off when he hurt Wilder was suspicious, I just thought he failed to seize the moment. Maybe he was hurt himself. Molina may have been a different story.
SenorPipino wrote: ↑19 May 2019, 13:49
I wake up and immediately read the same old conspiracy fables.
Breazeale backed off because it was fixed. And then he let Wilder take his head off with a Saturday night bomb because it was fixed.
Some guys even claim that they saw Joe Walcott and Nat Fleischer orchestrating everything from ringside.
I do get your point on that, but I'm not in that camp. I do think there's a huge conflict of interest in Brett Yormark working for the PBC at the same time as working on the WBC supreme council, but fighters aren't fixing fights. Breazeale just isn't that good. He never should have had the opportunity to land that one counter. Given their history, there's no way Breazeale wouldn't have finished Wilder, if he was able to, and you also can't blame Wilder for NYSAC applying their own rules between rounds in the Ortiz fight.
I'm just someone who sees Joshua probably beating Wilder, based on their attributes as fighters. Nothing more to it.
