what are ur top 15 middleweights of all time
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The Great John L
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 4351
- Joined: 26 Jul 2005, 19:37
This should be of help re: Great Middleweights and insight into the Cerdan - LaMotta 'discussion' - from the good ol' boys over at CBZ!
THE ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT TOURNAMENT (including Junior Middleweights)
by Thomas Gerbasi
FIRST ROUND
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON W15(U) Dick Tiger
ROY JONES JR. TKO12 Randy Turpin
GENE FULLMER W15(U) Tony Ayala Jr
BENNIE BRISCOE KO15 John Mugabi
MARVIN HAGLER W15(U) Nino Benvenuti
CARMEN BASILIO W15(U) Thomas Hearns
JAMES TONEY KO15 Stanley Ketchel
CARLOS MONZON W15(U) Tony Zale
KID MC COY TKO4 Maurice Hope
CHARLIE BURLEY TKO4(cuts) Jake LaMotta
MARCEL CERDAN W15(S) Emile Griffith
HARRY GREB W15(U) Rocky Graziano
SUGAR RAY LEONARD W15(U) Tommy Gibbons
LES DARCY KO3 Ayub Kalule
BILLY PAPKE TKO13 Terry Norris
MICKEY WALKER TKO7(swelling) Rodrigo Valdez
SECOND ROUND
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON TKO11 Gene Fullmer
ROY JONES JR TKO7 Bennie Briscoe
CARMEN BASILIO W15(S) Marvin Hagler
CARLOS MONZON W15(U) James Toney
KID MC COY W15(S) Charlie Burley
MICKEY WALKER TKO7 Marcel Cerdan
HARRY GREB KO4 Billy Papke
SUGAR RAY LEONARD W15(U) Les Darcy
QUARTERFINALS
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON VS. CARMEN BASILIO
After vanquishing old foe Gene Fullmer in the second round, Sugar Ray looked to add another to his list in Carmen Basilio, who was coming off an upset win over Marvin Hagler. Robinson wasted no time, peppering Basilio with a constant flurry of lefts and rights. Carmen looked lost, but he found his way late in the second, as a looping left caught Sugar on the point of the chin, sending him down for a four count. Ray bounced back in the next round, opening a gash over Basilio’s right eye and prompting the fans to call for a stoppage. Carmen showed the heart of a lion though, continuing to come forward and take punishment. Finally, in the 11th, Basilio’s legs gave out and he went down for a nine count. He staggered up, but it was just a matter of time. Robinson continued to tee off until referee Ruby Goldstein pulled Ray off the battered Basilio at 1:12 of the 12th. ROBINSON TKO12(swelling) Basilio
ROY JONES JR. VS. KID McCOY
You’ve got to give McCoy credit. He knew he was overmatched, so he had a plan of his own. He ran out, clinched and started to maul Jones. The ref warned the Kid for a low blow and for holding and hitting, and Jones looked confused. But the second was a different story. Jones pounded McCoy from long range, and the ref stopped stopped it at the 2:54 mark. JONES JR. TKO2 McCoy
CARLOS MONZON VS. MICKEY WALKER
The lanky Monzon dropped the short Walker within seconds of the opening bell for an 8 count, and the fans expected a quick ending, but Mickey survived the round. Monzon seemed to be a bit lazy in the next two rounds, and Walker stole them, in the process landing some solid blows. By the ninth, it was obvious that the Toy Bulldog was outworking Monzon and winning the fight. But a lightning fast right changed things quickly. Walker didn’t have the size to hold off Monzon, and by the 2 minute mark, Arthur Mercante wisely stepped in. MONZON TKO9 Walker
HARRY GREB VS. SUGAR RAY LEONARD
Grit vs. Glitz. Leonard came out dancing and talking to the stoic Greb, who gave away the first round. In the second, Greb got even, clutching Ray, hitting him low, and opening a cut under his left eye. Leonard tried to stick to his game plan, but Greb had goaded him into a brawl, much like Roberto Duran had done in Montreal in 1980. Both fighters had their moments, but by the seventh Greb had turned Leonard’s eyes into swollen slits. After the round, Angelo Dundee stopped the fight, all the while protesting that the swelling was caused by Greb’s dirty tactics. GREB TKO7(swelling) Leonard
SEMIFINALS
HARRY GREB VS. SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
Sugar Ray definitely watched the film of the Greb-Leonard match, as Robinson refused to be drawn into a brawl with Greb. Harry taunted Ray, but only received a gash over his eye for his trouble. Greb finally caught up to Ray in the eighth and scored some big blows, but wound up losing the round due to his usage of an open glove. This classic matchup continued to be entertaining, if one-sided, and Sugar Ray won a hard earned unanimous decision. ROBINSON W15(U) Greb
ROY JONES JR. VS. CARLOS MONZON
While Robinson was expected to outlast Greb, the board in Vegas had this one as "pick-em". Monzon stunned the crowd and Jones, by opening the fight on the offensive, almost dropping a hurt Jones on a couple of occasions. Jones got his legs back under him in the second, and once again, a lazy Monzon allowed Roy to take the lead. Monzon hit the floor in the fifth, and it looked like it might be over, but he survived the onslaught. Carlos seemed to have lost his timing, but he regained it in the eighth as both men went toe to toe. But it was Monzon’s last stand. Exhausted, he was dropped twice in the twelfth, the second time for a count of ten. JONES JR. KO12 Monzon
FINAL - UNDISPUTED ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON VS. ROY JONES JR.
Once again, Vegas couldn’t pick a favorite for this fight, and for the first five minutes it was dead even, boxing at its best. Then Jones dropped Sugar for a 6 count and the crowd hushed...is Jones this good? The answer was yes for the next four rounds, as Roy continually got off first and drilled Robinson. But Jones’ ego got the best of him, as Ray mounted his comeback offensive. Round after round, Robinson rallied, and by the 14th, it was anybody’s fight. Well, Sugar Ray showed his experience and true greatness, winning the final two frames handily, and winning a close but unanimous decision. Your winner and ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION...SUGAR RAY ROBINSON!!!
THE ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT TOURNAMENT (including Junior Middleweights)
by Thomas Gerbasi
FIRST ROUND
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON W15(U) Dick Tiger
ROY JONES JR. TKO12 Randy Turpin
GENE FULLMER W15(U) Tony Ayala Jr
BENNIE BRISCOE KO15 John Mugabi
MARVIN HAGLER W15(U) Nino Benvenuti
CARMEN BASILIO W15(U) Thomas Hearns
JAMES TONEY KO15 Stanley Ketchel
CARLOS MONZON W15(U) Tony Zale
KID MC COY TKO4 Maurice Hope
CHARLIE BURLEY TKO4(cuts) Jake LaMotta
MARCEL CERDAN W15(S) Emile Griffith
HARRY GREB W15(U) Rocky Graziano
SUGAR RAY LEONARD W15(U) Tommy Gibbons
LES DARCY KO3 Ayub Kalule
BILLY PAPKE TKO13 Terry Norris
MICKEY WALKER TKO7(swelling) Rodrigo Valdez
SECOND ROUND
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON TKO11 Gene Fullmer
ROY JONES JR TKO7 Bennie Briscoe
CARMEN BASILIO W15(S) Marvin Hagler
CARLOS MONZON W15(U) James Toney
KID MC COY W15(S) Charlie Burley
MICKEY WALKER TKO7 Marcel Cerdan
HARRY GREB KO4 Billy Papke
SUGAR RAY LEONARD W15(U) Les Darcy
QUARTERFINALS
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON VS. CARMEN BASILIO
After vanquishing old foe Gene Fullmer in the second round, Sugar Ray looked to add another to his list in Carmen Basilio, who was coming off an upset win over Marvin Hagler. Robinson wasted no time, peppering Basilio with a constant flurry of lefts and rights. Carmen looked lost, but he found his way late in the second, as a looping left caught Sugar on the point of the chin, sending him down for a four count. Ray bounced back in the next round, opening a gash over Basilio’s right eye and prompting the fans to call for a stoppage. Carmen showed the heart of a lion though, continuing to come forward and take punishment. Finally, in the 11th, Basilio’s legs gave out and he went down for a nine count. He staggered up, but it was just a matter of time. Robinson continued to tee off until referee Ruby Goldstein pulled Ray off the battered Basilio at 1:12 of the 12th. ROBINSON TKO12(swelling) Basilio
ROY JONES JR. VS. KID McCOY
You’ve got to give McCoy credit. He knew he was overmatched, so he had a plan of his own. He ran out, clinched and started to maul Jones. The ref warned the Kid for a low blow and for holding and hitting, and Jones looked confused. But the second was a different story. Jones pounded McCoy from long range, and the ref stopped stopped it at the 2:54 mark. JONES JR. TKO2 McCoy
CARLOS MONZON VS. MICKEY WALKER
The lanky Monzon dropped the short Walker within seconds of the opening bell for an 8 count, and the fans expected a quick ending, but Mickey survived the round. Monzon seemed to be a bit lazy in the next two rounds, and Walker stole them, in the process landing some solid blows. By the ninth, it was obvious that the Toy Bulldog was outworking Monzon and winning the fight. But a lightning fast right changed things quickly. Walker didn’t have the size to hold off Monzon, and by the 2 minute mark, Arthur Mercante wisely stepped in. MONZON TKO9 Walker
HARRY GREB VS. SUGAR RAY LEONARD
Grit vs. Glitz. Leonard came out dancing and talking to the stoic Greb, who gave away the first round. In the second, Greb got even, clutching Ray, hitting him low, and opening a cut under his left eye. Leonard tried to stick to his game plan, but Greb had goaded him into a brawl, much like Roberto Duran had done in Montreal in 1980. Both fighters had their moments, but by the seventh Greb had turned Leonard’s eyes into swollen slits. After the round, Angelo Dundee stopped the fight, all the while protesting that the swelling was caused by Greb’s dirty tactics. GREB TKO7(swelling) Leonard
SEMIFINALS
HARRY GREB VS. SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
Sugar Ray definitely watched the film of the Greb-Leonard match, as Robinson refused to be drawn into a brawl with Greb. Harry taunted Ray, but only received a gash over his eye for his trouble. Greb finally caught up to Ray in the eighth and scored some big blows, but wound up losing the round due to his usage of an open glove. This classic matchup continued to be entertaining, if one-sided, and Sugar Ray won a hard earned unanimous decision. ROBINSON W15(U) Greb
ROY JONES JR. VS. CARLOS MONZON
While Robinson was expected to outlast Greb, the board in Vegas had this one as "pick-em". Monzon stunned the crowd and Jones, by opening the fight on the offensive, almost dropping a hurt Jones on a couple of occasions. Jones got his legs back under him in the second, and once again, a lazy Monzon allowed Roy to take the lead. Monzon hit the floor in the fifth, and it looked like it might be over, but he survived the onslaught. Carlos seemed to have lost his timing, but he regained it in the eighth as both men went toe to toe. But it was Monzon’s last stand. Exhausted, he was dropped twice in the twelfth, the second time for a count of ten. JONES JR. KO12 Monzon
FINAL - UNDISPUTED ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON VS. ROY JONES JR.
Once again, Vegas couldn’t pick a favorite for this fight, and for the first five minutes it was dead even, boxing at its best. Then Jones dropped Sugar for a 6 count and the crowd hushed...is Jones this good? The answer was yes for the next four rounds, as Roy continually got off first and drilled Robinson. But Jones’ ego got the best of him, as Ray mounted his comeback offensive. Round after round, Robinson rallied, and by the 14th, it was anybody’s fight. Well, Sugar Ray showed his experience and true greatness, winning the final two frames handily, and winning a close but unanimous decision. Your winner and ALL-TIME MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION...SUGAR RAY ROBINSON!!!
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Well, the idea of a fantasy tournament can be fun. It's pretty obvious though, that it's based mainly on the author's wish list than what would have happended.
First of all, the tournament is missing some guys who are better than some that are in it. Tiger Flowers, Bernard Hopkins, Joey Giardello should have been it, to name a few.
Then the matchups. Griffith and Benevenuti have tough 1st round matchups and lose, and Benny Briscoe gets matched up with John Mugabi and wins.
LaMotta can't get past the 4th round in his fight against Burley?
How about Roy Jones? He gets all the way to the finals? He even knocked out Monzon! They could have fought 100 times and that would never have happened.
there as few other results that are doubtful as well.
The idea of a tournament was good and can be fun. However, it should be realistic. It's obvious that the author was just picking guys he liked over those he didn't.
First of all, the tournament is missing some guys who are better than some that are in it. Tiger Flowers, Bernard Hopkins, Joey Giardello should have been it, to name a few.
Then the matchups. Griffith and Benevenuti have tough 1st round matchups and lose, and Benny Briscoe gets matched up with John Mugabi and wins.
LaMotta can't get past the 4th round in his fight against Burley?
How about Roy Jones? He gets all the way to the finals? He even knocked out Monzon! They could have fought 100 times and that would never have happened.
there as few other results that are doubtful as well.
The idea of a tournament was good and can be fun. However, it should be realistic. It's obvious that the author was just picking guys he liked over those he didn't.
Fantasy tourneys often end up with the opposite results as to what would have happened in reality due to certain peoples overwhelming mixture of bias-wishfulthinking-and-notknowingwhat-they're-talkingabout!.
It seems to have escaped certain peoples attention that Lamotta and Cedan did actually meet within the roped Square and Mr Lamotta beat Mr Cedan like he was his daddy!...
It seems to have escaped certain peoples attention that Lamotta and Cedan did actually meet within the roped Square and Mr Lamotta beat Mr Cedan like he was his daddy!...
It's Cerdan!!!!!!!!silkov wrote:Fantasy tourneys often end up with the opposite results as to what would have happened in reality due to certain peoples overwhelming mixture of bias-wishfulthinking-and-notknowingwhat-they're-talkingabout!.
It seems to have escaped certain peoples attention that Lamotta and Cedan did actually meet within the roped Square and Mr Lamotta beat Mr Cedan like he was his daddy!...
Sorry about that!... its my accent!... 8)DoubleM wrote:It's Cerdan!!!!!!!!silkov wrote:Fantasy tourneys often end up with the opposite results as to what would have happened in reality due to certain peoples overwhelming mixture of bias-wishfulthinking-and-notknowingwhat-they're-talkingabout!.
It seems to have escaped certain peoples attention that Lamotta and Cedan did actually meet within the roped Square and Mr Lamotta beat Mr Cedan like he was his daddy!...