BoxRec Forum HW TOP 15 Ranking update - Hunter, Hrgović

[joshj909]

unfortunately, you are right - it was 20. it's still not that bad, and probably the list wouldn't change a lot anyway.

I know, i was just being picky More people have got involved in the updates though!

[candyslim]

That's where I struggle.
Due to the time difference, I am 12 hours ahead of the UK, so I know the result before it has even been voted upon by you guys...

I'm not sure many people got that

[candyslim]

Live ratings would be more accurate but also need adjusting constantly. The use of the Elo system used in chess and now adopted by FIFA could be examined by those who currently run the sport if they ever decide they need greater accuracy.

I feel that Hunter and Hrgovic right now could well be top 5 provisionally with Ortiz, Povetkin and Pulev all exiting the top 10 soon.

The heavyweight revival is truly underway. See what money can do?

40+ years ago long before BoxRec I used to produce my own rankings using the ELO system. The problem being it was starting from scratch so everyone had to be allocated an arbitrary number of points to start off with, which was a bit subjective.

Results were easy to miss and the whole process was so laborious I soon lost the necessary enthusiasm but I always thought that the ELO rating system had great potential for boxing rankings.

[joshj909]

40+ years ago long before BoxRec I used to produce my own rankings using the ELO system. The problem being it was starting from scratch so everyone had to be allocated an arbitrary number of points to start off with, which was a bit subjective.

Results were easy to miss and the whole process was so laborious I soon lost the necessary enthusiasm but I always thought that the ELO rating system had great potential for boxing rankings.

In an ideal world with lots of funding, a site like Boxrec (or something similar) could offer multiple ratings options such as ELO, something like the current Boxrec system and something similar to PBO's man who beat the man system. They'd be for the most part pretty similar but it would allow for people to use the system they like best, none of which would necessarily be wrong. If only the org's took some notice of these types of rankings rather than marketing or trinket-belt driven rankings, then more attention and money would be able to fund this.

[ewenhay]

In an ideal world with lots of funding, a site like Boxrec (or something similar) could offer multiple ratings options such as ELO, something like the current Boxrec system and something similar to PBO's man who beat the man system. They'd be for the most part pretty similar but it would allow for people to use the system they like best, none of which would necessarily be wrong. If only the org's took some notice of these types of rankings rather than marketing or trinket-belt driven rankings, then more attention and money would be able to fund this.

We need one ranking system. Not lots of options so people can choose what they like. That just adds to the problem

[joshj909]

We need one ranking system. Not lots of options so people can choose what they like. That just adds to the problem

I personally think the problem is subjectivity and ulterior motives. Deciding on one objective system is difficult as none will effectively take into account everything needed. As I said before, for the most part they will be similar, giving people they option to choose between a few equally accurate systems would cater to what they believe is the best way of ranking boxers. Not sure whether it would work in practice but I think it would be better than that ridiculous top 15s we get given

[Lennox]

The best system would be my PBO for fighters 1-100 and the organisation subjectively pick their top 10 from the objective top 20/25, so the 11th spot would be the highest objectively ranked fighter not ranked in the first 10.

It would mean the orgs could not insert an undeserving fighter in their top 10, he would have to be in the independent top 20 or 25 based on real merit which is man that beat the man.

It does make sense for an org not to rank other champions, opponents, suspensions.

It also would mean fighters would have to fight decent fighters to earn their rights in the rankings and MORE IMPORTANTLY they are compliant with the Ali act 1999 which the PBO are.

[dagilechia]

The voting is over.

Michael Hunter stays at #15

Filip Hrgović stays at #11

The rest remains unranked.

Current ranking:

1. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 0 0 - next fight: 01.06.2019 vs Andy Ruiz Jr - 32(21) 1(0) 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #14)

2. Tyson Fury - 27(19) 0 1 - next fight: 15.06.2019 vs Tom Schwarz - 24(16) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #56)

3. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

4. Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - (#10)

5. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Joseph Parker - 25(19) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Adam Kownacki - 19(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - (#4)

11. Filip Hrgović - 8(6) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Dereck Chisora - 30(21) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Michael Hunter - 17(12) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

Next voting soon after the Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr fight which starts soon. I hope that your beer is already cold enough.

[pound per pound]

The voting is over.

Michael Hunter stays at #15

Filip Hrgović stays at #11

The rest remains unranked.

Current ranking:

1. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 0 0 - next fight: 01.06.2019 vs Andy Ruiz Jr - 32(21) 1(0) 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #14)

2. Tyson Fury - 27(19) 0 1 - next fight: 15.06.2019 vs Tom Schwarz - 24(16) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #56)

3. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

4. Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - (#10)

5. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Joseph Parker - 25(19) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Adam Kownacki - 19(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 0 0 - next fight: 20.07.2019 vs Dillian Whyte - 25(18) 1(1) 0 - (#4)

11. Filip Hrgović - 8(6) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Dereck Chisora - 30(21) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Michael Hunter - 17(12) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

Next voting soon after the Anthony Joshua vs Andy Ruiz Jr fight which starts soon. I hope that your beer is already cold enough.

Ruiz wasn't viewed as top 15. Does he now vault to #1?

[ironbeard]

Ruiz wasn't viewed as top 15. Does he now vault to #1?

Indubitably.

[dagilechia]

Ruiz wasn't viewed as top 15. Does he now vault to #1?

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=231008 - voting on Joshua vs Ruiz

looks like most of people put him at #3 and AJ at #4 so far.

[candyslim]

He's number one for me. He's just beaten the man with three (four if you prefer) belts. That's not to say he beats Wilder or Fury but the champion isn't necessarily the best fighter in his division, take Buster Douglas for example.

[oogiebe]

He's number one for me. He's just beaten the man with three (four if you prefer) belts. That's not to say he beats Wilder or Fury but the champion isn't necessarily the best fighter in his division, take Buster Douglas for example.

I think it showed AJ's flaws more than Ruiz's prowess. Ruiz to three; Joshua to Four.

[pound per pound]

40+ years ago long before BoxRec I used to produce my own rankings using the ELO system. The problem being it was starting from scratch so everyone had to be allocated an arbitrary number of points to start off with, which was a bit subjective.

Results were easy to miss and the whole process was so laborious I soon lost the necessary enthusiasm but I always thought that the ELO rating system had great potential for boxing rankings.

I'm okay with the box rec rating system, though it' far from perfect.

The changes I'd are thus:

Start the new professionals who won gold, silver or bronze at the World Amateur Champions or Olympics with bonus points of 100, 50 and 25 for each event they won, and take away these bonus points after 4 years as a professional. This way the top young talent won't be vastly behind a majority of boxers they are clearly better than.

Treat all bogus decisions, defined by when 2/3 or more of the majority of independent scorecards disagree the official judges ruling as a no contest for the ratings. Why should a fighter be docked points for a fight most felt he won?

Subtract 100 points being inactive for a year.

Subtract 100 points for a positive on a PED test.

Subtract 50 points for fighters 35 and older each year.

[ewenhay]

I'm okay with the box rec rating system, though it' far from perfect.

The changes I'd are thus:

Start the new professionals who won gold, silver or bronze at the World Amateur Champions or Olympics with bonus points of 100, 50 and 25 for each event they won, and take away these bonus points after 4 years as a professional. This way the top young talent won't be vastly behind a majority of boxers they are clearly better than.

Treat all bogus decisions, defined by when 2/3 or more of the majority of independent scorecards disagree the official judges ruling as a no contest for the ratings. Why should a fighter be docked points for a fight most felt he won?

Subtract 100 points being inactive for a year.

Subtract 100 points for a positive on a PED test.

Subtract 50 points for fighters 35 and older each year.

Only 100 points for peds? I'd reset the points in that scenario

[candyslim]

@ Oogie: If we are ignoring titles and just rating on the basis of who you think is the best, the second best and so on, then you could be right,

if we are rating basis who has beaten/lost to the better fighters (i.e. on resumé) you could still have AJ at number one.

If we are rating basis the top man being the man who dethroned the champion, I stand by my last.

[oogiebe]

@ Oogie: If we are ignoring titles and just rating on the basis of who you think is the best, the second best and so on, then you could be right,

if we are rating basis who has beaten/lost to the better fighters (i.e. on resumé) you could still have AJ at number one.

If we are rating basis the top man being the man who dethroned the champion, I stand by my last.

Dude. Titles or no titles it's a rating system. The assumption of AJ's greatness was overrated. Ruiz proved that AJ wasn't the monster folks said he was. It's in that regard that I say Ruiz number three and AJ number four. That's how I see it. That's how I vote. You do it your way, I'll do it mine. There are no parameters here other than each of our own opinions. Thank you!

[ewenhay]

@ Oogie: If we are ignoring titles and just rating on the basis of who you think is the best, the second best and so on, then you could be right,

if we are rating basis who has beaten/lost to the better fighters (i.e. on resumé) you could still have AJ at number one.

If we are rating basis the top man being the man who dethroned the champion, I stand by my last.

Nobody can seriously have Joshua at number one after that, surely

[oogiebe]

Nobody can seriously have Joshua at number one after that, surely

He is serious. He is wrong.

[candyslim]

I would no longer have him at number one but I'm just saying one loss doesn't wipe out all your good wins or Lewis or Wlad wouldn't be respected the way they are.

AJ did look disturbingly vulnerable it has to be said..

[oogiebe]

I would no longer have him at number one but I'm just saying one loss doesn't wipe out all your good wins or Lewis or Wlad wouldn't be respected the way they are.

AJ did look disturbingly vulnerable it has to be said..

Right! He's still the fourth best HW today. He can recoup and come back. He has those physical attributes, but he needs a lot of work in order to come back. I want to know more about the camp psychologist. AJ looked weird last night.

[ewenhay]

He'll struggle to come back from that. It was a pretty humiliating defeat.

His unfancied opponent was faster, smarter and showed more heart. He was being pushed back by single jabs to the chest. He couldn't handle a double jab and looked vulnerable to the body despite looking well conditioned. His defence was poor and he can't adapt if his pre planned fight strategy doesn't work. Every time he was hit to the head his legs wobbled and the stamina theory is definitely a fact now. Oh and he was beaten to the point where he quit so future opponents know he can also be broken down mentally.

It's going to be very very tough to come back and beat the better guys. His flaws were laid bare last night.

[candyslim]

Right! He's still the fourth best HW today. He can recoup and come back. He has those physical attributes, but he needs a lot of work in order to come back. I want to know more about the camp psychologist. AJ looked weird last night.

Yes your'e the third person to say that to my knowledge, the first being the new guy you thought was a troll and me. He didn't seem himself from before the first bell. Very strange. Maybe the weight of expectation got to him. I'd have him fourth at this point too.