Re: Joshua vs Ruiz REMATCH

harisson · Post by **harisson** » 04 Jun 2019, 14:52

So Eddie Hearn just wrote on twitter that after meetings with AJ, his coach and the rest of the team, they triggered the contracted rematch clause! The match should take place in Nov/Dec.
What do you thkink about the outcome of this, what should Josh should do differently this time?
Also what do you guys think about Lennox's comments about Rob Mc?
As a big AJ fan, I really hope that he bounce back from this, maybe take Andy more seriously, work on his cardio more, and box him in a more controled way. Keep his distance and move a lot more. Get him tired, work his body and put big shots only when he's sure they are landing, or pretty much landing. The main thing would be to AVOID EXCHANGES!
That's it, sorry if my english is not very good guys.

HeavyHitters · Post by **HeavyHitters** » 04 Jun 2019, 16:21

I agree with you on what he needs to do in the rematch. Also, he should come in with a crab-like defensive style that George Foreman used in his 2nd career. Even though there might have been some outside factors in play that lead to him getting floored 4 times, the 2nd time around, Joshua needs to protect his chin as if it was a fragile china plate.

Use the jab 90% of the time, and follow every 6th or 7th jab with a nice brisk straight right. Move left, right, left.... Keeping Ruiz at bay and off balance. AJ needs to get use to running 10 miles a day, to make sure his cardio is better than Ruiz's. I'd be shocked if the rematch ends with the same result. As nice of a guy that Andy Ruiz seems to be, I'm sure becoming Heavyweight Champion Of The World will cause him to go a little soft.... No pun intended.

And if for some reason a Wilder vs. Ruiz fight happens before an AJ rematch, I'd bet that Wilder might have the same difficulty with Ruiz as well, but I don't see Wilder folding. I think he'd bide his time and eventually land one thunderous right hand that Andy would not be able to get up from ( perhaps a solid kidney shot as well ).

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 04 Jun 2019, 16:40

keep it long, jab jab jab and right from range

none of those body jabs that left him wide open to andys looping shots

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 04 Jun 2019, 16:41

jamamb wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 16:40 keep it long, jab jab jab and right from range

none of those body jabs that left him wide open to andys looping shots

x2 Proper distance and strong jabs (to the head, FFS)!

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 04 Jun 2019, 16:53

I don't see Joshua able to alter his cardio or skill set in 5 or 6 months.
The fight will go longer than 7. But it's going to be the same result

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 04 Jun 2019, 16:56

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 16:41 x2 Proper distance and strong jabs (to the head, FFS)!

Yes, this is the proper way if the rematch take place in UK (I doubt that Joshua may lose by decision in UK).

This would be a quite different story in Mexico or USA (see Canelo case)...............

greg · Post by **greg** » 04 Jun 2019, 17:01

I also think they should take more time, take a step back, refocus, readjust...the second (T)KO loss to the same boxer can be a lot more damaging to AJ's career..

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 04 Jun 2019, 17:05

I expect Ruiz and PBC to ignore whatever that rematch clause supposedly stipulates (Barry Hearn seemed rather uncertain about it) and focus on keeping the belt in-house.

It'll cost Ruiz a belt or 2, but so what? The fighter makes the belt, not the other way around.

Ruiz is now a mainstream star just by virtue of his unique look.

Joshua would then get a practically free ride to reclaiming a vacant crown. Maybe a WBA matchup with Charr or Bryan.

Meanwhile, Ruiz can look ahead to a showdown with Wilder next year and maybe a warmup bout against Kownascki.

Fury would probably be in the mix too for Ruiz since he has no problem working with PBC. Arum would agree too since he knows his own stable of heavyweights stinks.

For Ruiz and PBC, ignoring Joshua is best for their business.

But if a rematch does come off, my advice to Joshua is 'go for the damn body.'

ewenhay · Post by **ewenhay** » 04 Jun 2019, 17:10

SenorPipino wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:05 I expect Ruiz and PBC to ignore whatever that rematch clause supposedly stipulates (Barry Hearn seemed rather uncertain about it) and focus on keeping the belt in-house.

It'll cost Ruiz a belt or 2, but so what? The fighter makes the belt, not the other way around.

Ruiz is now a mainstream star just by virtue of his unique look.

Joshua would then get a practically free ride to reclaiming a vacant crown. Maybe a WBA matchup with Charr or Bryan.

Meanwhile, Ruiz can look ahead to a showdown with Wilder next year and maybe a warmup bout against Kownascki.

Fury would probably be in the mix too for Ruiz since he has no problem working with PBC. Arum would agree too since he knows his own stable of heavyweights stinks.

For Ruiz and PBC, ignoring Joshua is best for their business.

But if a rematch does come off, my advice to Joshua is 'go for the damn body.'

I wouldn't rule this out. He could refuse the rematch clause and take the IBF mandatory instead. Depends on the legalities and consequences of whatever clauses exist

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 04 Jun 2019, 17:15

ewenhay wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:10 I wouldn't rule this out. He could refuse the rematch clause and take the IBF mandatory instead. Depends on the legalities and consequences of whatever clauses exist

That's the thing. We've never heard exactly what's in that rematch clause.

I'm betting it's not absolutely cut and dry. There are undoubtedly some vague stipulations and uncertain wordings that the PBC attorneys are already picking apart.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 04 Jun 2019, 17:17

wud be a useless clause if its easy to bypass without cost

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 04 Jun 2019, 19:01

Anthony Joshua shouldn’t take the rematch if the only reason for doing so is due to feeling compelled to do so because of peer pressure from the fans or to satisfy the commercial interest of his promoter (Matchroom) and his broadcasters (Sky & DAZN).

I’ve only just watched the Matchroom behind the scenes video and he looked extremely exhausted when the ref was issuing the eight count to Andy Ruiz Jr. And that’s really bad, considering how early it was during the bout.

After the fourth knockdown, Anthony Joshua also seemed to completely ignore the ref’s orders to walk forward, after being verbally instructed to do so, coupled with abundantly clear hand gestures. He was essentially asked twice, but failed to abide.

Whether this was because he was distressed and didn’t want to continue or if it was because he felt unsteady on his feet and needed to lean on the ropes, who knows? If it’s the former, then where was his hunger and desire to overcome adversity and show the heart of a true champion? This is troubling also.

I think he needs to take stock of the situation, review what went wrong, consider what changes need to be implemented to address those issues and then evaluate whether it’s the right moment to exercise the rematch clause.

All this takes time and if he needs to replace certain members of his team or bring in some fresh blood, then he should implement these changes at an appropriate speed rather potentially making the situation worse by rushing things, because after all… Rome wasn’t built in a day.

If AJ faces Andy Ruiz Jr. again and suffers another bruising defeat, then it could essentially spell the end of his time as being considered one of the elite-level operators within the heavyweight division.

I’m not entirely sure if AJ should face Andy Ruiz Jr. again so soon if he doesn’t feel as though he’s got his house in order. It just seems a bit rushed to me.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 04 Jun 2019, 19:04

greg wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:01 I also think they should take more time, take a step back, refocus, readjust...the second (T)KO loss to the same boxer can be a lot more damaging to AJ's career..

IF AJ loses the rematch, it's probably game over for him. I really hope he gets a new trainer. More boxing and less weightlifting in the gym.

harisson · Post by **harisson** » 04 Jun 2019, 21:47

jamamb wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:17 wud be a useless clause if its easy to bypass without cost

I think so too. I doubt that Eddie didn't think about that...

cormack · Post by **cormack** » 05 Jun 2019, 06:39

Now that matchroom and AJ have announced they are activating the clause then its up to Ruiz and his advisors to negotiate something or start looking at other options and make them wait in line ..

I think hearn will be dangling a major ppv number to try and get it in the UK

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 05 Jun 2019, 10:08

Here are the thoughts of boxing scribe, Vivek Wallace, who provided his perspective on the outcome of the Joshua-Ruiz Jr. bout, which may affect the rematch:

(BoxingTalk - Did Extenuating Circumstances Lead to Joshua's Loss to Ruiz): Short Answer...."NO"! I've seen everything from "panic attacks", to "knocked out during sparring", and everything in between. People need to simply give Andy Ruiz his props. No matter WHAT the speculation was going in, here's what happened in sequential order:

1. Joshua was executing just fine and Winning a few rounds on the cards through the 3rd. (NO SIGN OF CONCUSSION OR PRE-FIGHT ISSUES PRESENT)

2. He knocked Ruiz down with a jarring shot most don't get up from. (NO SIGN OF CONCUSSION OR PRE-FIGHT ISSUES PRESENT)

3. Ruiz RESPONDED STRONGLY! He didn't retreat or get timid. He recognized he was in a fight and he decided to fight back. (AT THIS POINT THE QUESTIONS STARTED TO LOOM)

4. Mike Tyson once said "everyone has a plan til they get punched in the mouth"! Joshua's plan was to "punch Ruiz in the mouth". Ruiz's plan was to punch him back! (SUDDENLY NOW UNCERTAINTY SET IN)

5. What we learned was that Joshua - as the man used to punching people in the mouth" - had no "plan" when his opponent did that very thing to him. (YES, HE GOT UP VERSUS WLADI-K, BUT WLADI DIDNT TAKE THE CHANCES RUIZ WAS WILLING TO TAKE)

6. The 5th round was a VERY STRONG rebound round for Joshua....(UNTIL HE GOT PUNCHED BACK)!

7. During the final exchange, Joshua landed some wicked shots....UNTIL HE GOT PUNCHED BACK! (Notice the recurring theme???). After being floored, he touched the deck. Got up, looked at his corner....was asked did he want to continue? Gave a very weak "yah" but body language said "no"!

BOTTOMLINE: He was EVERYTHING that made us love him as long as he was winning the fight. He didn't go down for a 10-count. He wasn't wobbled and barely conscious. So you have to ask WHY the ref stopped the fight? The answer? JOSHUA DIDN'T SEE A PATH TO VICTORY, THEREFORE HE DIDNT TRULY WANT TO CONTINUE! Hearn admitted this without excuses. So did Joshua. So you, "Joe Fight Fan" must admit this too! The heart is a muscle, but not everyone with a muscle has heart? #NoMas #RuizTookHisHeart

Nightmare Roy · Post by **Nightmare Roy** » 05 Jun 2019, 10:17

SenorPipino wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:15 That's the thing. We've never heard exactly what's in that rematch clause.

I'm betting it's not absolutely cut and dry. There are undoubtedly some vague stipulations and uncertain wordings that the PBC attorneys are already picking apart.

Without doubt Hayman is a smart cookie

JohnMcMinn · Post by **JohnMcMinn** » 05 Jun 2019, 10:23

What happens if AJ loses the rematch? I think the Anthony Joshua™ brand is done, which isn't the worst thing, but AJ himself may be done which would be unfortunate. Even without a title I'd still like to see him fight Wilder, Fury, and Whyte. Hopefully Joshua can look past all of the endorsement deals and focus on his legacy.

And I really hope Al Haymon can prevent the rematch from being in the UK.

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 05 Jun 2019, 12:17

Joe Joyce has just told iFL TV that he was given the choice between two fellow PBC stablemates to face for his outing in February.

He decided against facing Andy Ruiz Jr. and chose Bermane Stiverne instead.

The reason he gave for declining the opportunity to face Ruiz Jr. was that, despite the Mexican being a fine boxer, it was a lose-lose situation for him, because if he won, he would have been accused of bullying “a small fat man.”

However, had he lost, then he would have been labelled a hype job defeated by “a small fat man.”

I remember Eddie Hearn saying something similar a few years back about Andy Ruiz Jr., because at the time AJ was looking for suitable world-rated opposition to face whilst he himself was only a contender.

Is it feasible that Andy Ruiz Jr. was “ducked”, because his physical appearance, anonymity and genuine boxing ability meant that he was considered a “high risk versus very low reward” type opponent?

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 05 Jun 2019, 12:23

Even pre-Joshua, Ruiz would have been a solid favorite over the faded, beaten down Joshua.

If Joyce was looking for the guaranteed win, picking Stiverne was a no-brainer.

Joyce was worried about public reaction to choosing the short, obese Ruiz? He wasn't exactly praised for selecting Stiverne, who was an 80-1 underdog.

bigman1968 · Post by **bigman1968** » 05 Jun 2019, 13:58

jamamb wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 17:17 wud be a useless clause if its easy to bypass without cost

So they(PBC) will pay the cost.
Actually, I will not be surprized if Hearn will be forced by DAZN to rematch in US...they didn’t sign AJ for a fortune to keep milking UK market!

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 06 Jun 2019, 07:39

Ruiz said that he must be paid at least 50 million, if rematch would take place in UK.

Ruthless-RKO · Post by **Ruthless-RKO** » 06 Jun 2019, 07:55

ValMar wrote: ↑06 Jun 2019, 07:39 Ruiz said that he must be paid at least 50 million, if rematch would take place in UK.

The fight won’t even make that much.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 06 Jun 2019, 08:05

It's really too hard to tell this early. Initially I thought AJ would return the favor in a rematch, but now under closer scrutiny, I have alot of questions, has AJ lost the eye of the tiger, is the Dawejko story true, has his confidence been shattered. The more I watch the fight the more amazed I'am by how it played out. When Joshua dropped Ruiz in the 3rd, I'm sure 95 pct of us were thinking, "this is it, game over", but it looks even more shocking now when we go from game over to seconds later seeing AJ turn gun shy and go into a shell for a big part of the rest of the bout. It's not just that AJ lost, it's how he lost and to who he lost that's really no doubt got him wondering now.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 06 Jun 2019, 08:16

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑06 Jun 2019, 07:55 The fight won’t even make that much.

You are wrong, surely.