More Duplicate Boxers/Aliases

[JohnMcMinn]

Larry Mayes / Larry Maize
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/23459
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/757393

Torito Rivas / Adolfo Rivas
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/65659
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/58223
Two articles describe Jimmy Claar's and Raymond Boyd's opponent as Torito Rivas, not Adolfo Rivas (https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/106957456/ & https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/119917238/). If you look at the two records the weights and locations of their fights line up, including some common opponents.

Charlie Peterson / Charlie Powell
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/23274
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/23296
I have several reasons proving Powell is an alias for Peterson. But the most pertinent one is that when I interviewed boxer Bob Coolidge, he identified Powell as Peterson. If you look at his record, he fought both.

Nick Miller / Nick Palmer
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/23297
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/203159
Nick Miller was a middleweight from Omaha in the Bruce Strauss stable. Nick Palmer was the alias he used for the fight in Oklahoma. A matchmaker that I've interviewed about Midwest boxing told me this and confirmed it after looking at a photo of Palmer.

Pete Tenorio / Kid Tinero
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/134838
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/160423
Before the 1978-03-18 fight, some newspaper articles I have refer to the boxer as Kid Tinero, others as Pete Tinero. They both seem to have been part of Blackie Ramon's stable from Texas so it would make sense that they are the same boxer.

Rene Pagan / Rafael Pagan
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/97871
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/203160
I know the promoters of the fights in Oklahoma - one of whom was my grandfather - used to book boxers from a manager in Texas, fighters such as Jose Pacheco (http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/61526). The boxers were based primarily in the Houston and Beaumont/Port Arthur area. Almost all of Rene Pagan's fights were in Houston, he fought on some of the same cards as Pacheco, and they shared several common opponents (Edmund Carter, Raymond Gonzales, Eddie Green). I can provide photos as well.

Eddie Mitchell / Billy Thomas
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/27987
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/203150
Another one of these Texas boxers was Eddie Mitchell. The Billy Thomas of the 1982-01-01 fight was said to be middleweight Billy Joe Thomas of Lake Charles, La. Eddie Mitchell was fighting as a middleweight at this time and in 1981 almost all of his fights were in Lake Charles and other nearby Louisiana towns. He would go on to have a fight in Lake Charles just days after the Oklahoma fight. Billy Joe's record was said to be 38-5; Mitchell's was actually 5-38. His manager clearly adjusted his record to make him a more appealing opponent (very common). Both were African-American middleweights from the same stable. Mitchell also fought the aforementioned Rene Pagan.

There was an actual Billy Joe Thomas who was a heavyweight boxer fighting in the South, including fights in Louisiana, a later fight in Lake Charles, and multiple bouts with Lake Charles boxer Philipp Brown. The real Billy Joe likely would've been known to Mitchell's management. They must have "borrowed" his name and sent him up to Oklahoma to fight. Using aliases in Oklahoma at the time was not uncommon, as a lot of the fighters I've mentioned here obviously did. There was no state boxing commission at the time so managers would send their boxers into the state with aliases so a loss wouldn't go on their official record. I've been doing a lot of research on Oklahoma, Texas, and Midwest boxers and hopefully this all makes sense.

One more note, Rafael Valdez would have been fighting a different boxer named Billy Thomas. Valdez was a lightweight/super lightweight and Mitchell was a middleweight at that time

[wouter]

Thanks for the info. Oklahoma in those days is a bit of a challenge, to put it mildly. Regarding the Eddie Mitchell / Billy Thomas identity, do you have any additonnal proof? You refer to the 5-38 record Mitchell had at the time according to Boxrec, but that record is almost certainly incomplete and only reflects the fights we have for him thus far. Therefore his manager can't simply have 'reversed' his real record.

[JohnMcMinn]

Thanks for the info. Oklahoma in those days is a bit of a challenge, to put it mildly. Regarding the Eddie Mitchell / Billy Thomas identity, do you have any additonnal proof? You refer to the 5-38 record Mitchell had at the time according to Boxrec, but that record is almost certainly incomplete and only reflects the fights we have for him thus far. Therefore his manager can't simply have 'reversed' his real record.

It's definitely possible that Eddie Mitchell has other fights out there that aren't recorded, but as to "reversing" or mixing up records I've seen it before. For example, with the Charlie Peterson/Charlie Powell fight Powell was said to be 25-7 (32 fights) while Peterson was really 10-20-2 (32 fights) so it's not out of the question. But you could certainly be right.

I do have a photo from the Billy Joe Thomas fight:

I don't have a contemporary photo of Mitchell but I found this on his obituary page. I think you can see distinct similarities between features such the ears and nose:

[JohnMcMinn]

Oklahoma in those days is a bit of a challenge, to put it mildly.

And as for Oklahoma being a challenge, my dad said he knew several guys from that area who would take "unofficial" fights when they needed extra money using aliases so a potential loss wouldn't go on their official record that they were trying to build up. So a lot of the real records for lots of boxers in that era will never be known. My dad never engaged in any of that stuff, he always fought clean, and my grandfather advised the boxers he promoted to avoid that stuff.

[JohnMcMinn]

And one other thing - lots of those Oklahoma fights still haven't been recorded. For example, the 1980-11-15 event in Miami currently only lists Tony McMinn vs. Eddie Johnson, but Jimmy Heair was the headliner and Johnny Copeland fought a 10 round fight as well. The newspaper reporting the results doesn't seem to have been digitized yet but I have the physical copy in my grandpa's scrapbook along with many others.

[wouter]

And one other thing - lots of those Oklahoma fights still haven't been recorded. For example, the 1980-11-15 event in Miami currently only lists Tony McMinn vs. Eddie Johnson, but Jimmy Heair was the headliner and Johnny Copeland fought a 10 round fight as well. The newspaper reporting the results doesn't seem to have been digitized yet but I have the physical copy in my grandpa's scrapbook along with many others.

Thanks again, check your private messages.