Why Anthony Joshua loss is a huge wake-up call for over-marinating fights

[Ruthless-RKO]

On June 2nd of 2019, DAZN bosses may well have woken up thinking what might have been for one-time poster boy Anthony Joshua.

The fact Eddie Hearn was unable to agree terms over huge fights with Tyson Fury and Deontay Wilder cost the Matchroom boss tens of millions of pounds.

Joshua took one of the worst beatings a unified heavyweight champion has ever taken in the ring when Andy Ruiz Jr. took his titles at Madison Square Garden.

The New York crowd were heard visibly gasping, whilst those professionals at ringside didn’t know what they were watching.

AJ was pulled across the Atlantic to show just how good he was to the American fans. The move failed miserably.

Now, the Londoner faces a rebuilding job. He has to overcome what seemed to be stagefright, nerves or maybe something deeper.

With a rematch on the horizon, Joshua has to find himself quickly. If he doesn’t, Joshua risks blowing one of the most lucrative careers of all time in just over six months.

What does the Joshua loss prove? – Well, a lot when it comes to negotiations between rivals.

There’s an old saying, which goes: ‘If two fighters want to fight, they fight’. Clearly, in the case of Joshua, Wilder and Fury one of those three, or their representatives, didn’t want it.

The continued marination of Joshua’s stagnated opponents came to a head when the 29 year-old was effectively backed into a corner.

Hearn had originally hand-picked Jarrell Miller, a clash which looked a foregone conclusion. When Miller was ruled out, Hearn and Joshua were left scrambling.

Would Ruiz have been Hearn’s first, second or third choice from the outset, one hundred percent not.

Michael Hunter was the initial target, although DAZN bosses didn’t think the former cruiserweight was a big enough name. Maybe in hindsight, they could have allowed Joshua a gimme in this scenario?

Whatever the case, prolonging bouts on purpose has to stop. Boxers should be pitted together in their prime in order to give the paying public value for money.

Wilder v Fury happened out of the blue, and possibly before the latter was even ready for it. So hence giving Fury an extra year makes total sense.

2020

February 2020 could make what was a great first fight even better in the return. Whilst Joshua’s make-or-break encounter with Ruiz will have been settled by then.

If Joshua manages to claw his titles back, it could be feasible to see the eventual winner of the Wilder v Fury saga battle the 2012 Olympic gold medalist at the back end of 2020, that’s if both sides are willing to give ground.

WBN had inside knowledge of previous Joshua v Wilder negotiations, which seemed nowhere near an agreement at any point over the summer of 2018.

Ruiz has shaken up the division and pushed the realization we were all frustrated about – that sooner, rather than later – is best moving forward.

Let’s hope this turning point gives the boxing public what they hope for next year. And ultimately…what the sport has been craving for so long.

https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2019/06 ... promoters/

[Enlightened-One]

Anthony Joshua’s loss isn’t really much of a wake-up call for promoters, since the “marination” approach that is used to generate interest in fights over a prolonged time period is highly-lucrative in nature and has a proven track-record of success.

So instead of fight fans receiving highly-anticipated marquee bouts sooner, what will probably happen instead is fighters, promoters and broadcasters becoming more risk averse.

And what I mean by that is they’ll likely focus more on the “risk versus reward” ratio instead.

Fighters will probably start treading the safest and easiest path whilst patiently waiting for interest in their marquee PPV-type bouts to plateau and reach their optimum demand.

High-risk anonymous unheralded contenders will be avoided at all cost. The calibre of last-minute replacement opponents will likely diminish to journeymen standard.

And fighters will realise that the Buster Douglas’, Corrie Sanders’, Oliver McCall’s, Hasim Rahman’s and Andy Ruiz Jr’s of this world are capable of upsetting the applecart, meaning that no underdog opponent will be taken lightly ever again.

[gilgamesh]

Anthony Joshua’s loss isn’t really much of a wake-up call for promoters, since the “marination” approach that is used to generate interest in fights over a prolonged time period is highly-lucrative in nature and has a proven track-record of success.

So instead of fight fans receiving highly-anticipated marquee bouts sooner, what will probably happen instead is fighters, promoters and broadcasters becoming more risk averse.

And what I mean by that is they’ll likely focus more on the “risk versus reward” ratio instead.

Fighters will probably start treading the safest and easiest path whilst patiently waiting for interest in their marquee PPV-type bouts to plateau and reach their optimum demand.

High-risk anonymous unheralded contenders will be avoided at all cost. The calibre of last-minute replacement opponents will likely diminish to journeymen standard.

And fighters will realise that the Buster Douglas’, Corrie Sanders’, Oliver McCall’s, Hasim Rahman’s and Andy Ruiz Jr’s of this world are capable of upsetting the applecart, meaning that no underdog opponent will be taken lightly ever again.

I don't think you could've found an "easier" opponent on paper that was still somewhat a contender than Andy Ruiz for AJ. Ruiz wasn't supposed to have a chance. What would they have to have done? Fly Bermane Stiverne over?

[Ilya Muromets]

I don't think you could've found an "easier" opponent on paper that was still somewhat a contender than Andy Ruiz for AJ. Ruiz wasn't supposed to have a chance. What would they have to have done? Fly Bermane Stiverne over?

Ruiz had been knocking around the pros for over ten years going nowhere fast. The only top guy he ever fought was Parker and he lost to him. Most people were even bored at the thought of the mismatch, which it turned out to be, but in reverse.

[gilgamesh]

Ruiz had been knocking around the pros for over ten years going nowhere fast. The only top guy he ever fought was Parker and he lost to him. Most people were even bored at the thought of the mismatch, which it turned out to be, but in reverse.

Exactly. So on paper he SHOULD'VE been an easy night. Don't really know how you could have a guy in AJ's position take on any "safer" of an opponent without being criticized to hell and back.

[Onetimeonly]

Could just as well be a wake up call to stick to your guns. Wilder looks good now at #1.

[Syntax Error]

I've had it up to my man boobs with marinating superfights.

I understand the concept and if it pans out, it can be lucrative, but boxing is such a dangerous and unpredictable sport that almost anything can happen.

Imagination they did this marinating lark in the 70s when Ali was the kingpin, how many superfights could he have missed out on?

He made a ton of money and anyone who fought him usually received their biggest ever payday, so there was no need to marinate.

Fast forward to now; whoever fights Joshua will receive their biggest payday, so what is there to marinate?

If a fight is hot, make it, because whoever wins calls the shots and that's where you can make your money.

Marinating should only be used in food preparation, not in the sport of boxing.

[marvelous marv]

They have moved on to marinating Wilder and Fury now. It is a dangerous game.

[Onetimeonly]

I've had it up to my man boobs with marinating superfights.

I understand the concept and if it pans out, it can be lucrative, but boxing is such a dangerous and unpredictable sport that almost anything can happen.

Imagination they did this marinating lark in the 70s when Ali was the kingpin, how many superfights could he have missed out on?

He made a ton of money and anyone who fought him usually received their biggest ever payday, so there was no need to marinate.

Fast forward to now; whoever fights Joshua will receive their biggest payday, so what is there to marinate?

If a fight is hot, make it, because whoever wins calls the shots and that's where you can make your money.

Marinating should only be used in food preparation, not in the sport of boxing.

These guys make huge money fighting crap. That's the real problem. Boxers are probably the most overpaid entertainers in the world.

[candyslim]

There certainly used to be a culture of boxers fighting quality opposition, the best fighting the best on a regular basis back in the day when it put food on the table rather than life changing money in your bank account.

I'm not saying I'd want to return to the days when a hungry fighter was literally that, but why should one fight earn what they now call "generational money" (meaning not only could you afford to retire now but so could your grandkids) ?

It's nuts. If AJ wasn't concerned about his place in boxing lore i.e. his legacy, he could have retired several fights ago. I want people who risk their lives for our entertainment to be well rewarded but that doesn't mean that I want retirement at twenty something to be a viable option. It's not just the fortune-earning elite that are risking their lives.

I used to complain how the money paid to top UK footballers was obscene but then it was pointed out to me that would be a pittance compared to what even an unremarkable NFL player is earning. Sport is a short career they should be well paid, but no sportsman should earn more in a week than a nurse could earn in two lifetimes it's madness.

[Enlightened-One]

I don't think you could've found an "easier" opponent on paper that was still somewhat a contender than Andy Ruiz for AJ. Ruiz wasn't supposed to have a chance. What would they have to have done? Fly Bermane Stiverne over?

Maybe that’s what your perception of Andy Ruiz Jr. was prior to his bout against AJ, but it wasn't mine. I’ve been a big fan of his talents since early 2016, well before his bout against Joseph Parker, which I thought he won.

And I genuinely believed that the Mexican would pose a tough challenge to Anthony Joshua. Even though I didn’t expect him to win, it was always regarded as a competitive match-up to me.

This isn’t coming from someone professing wisdom built on the foundation of hindsight either, since my appreciation of Andy Ruiz Jr. is already well-documented on this forum.

And let’s not forget that a lot of boxing insiders appreciated the Mexican’s talents prior to the Joshua bout, as they too considered him a very good opponent for the Brit.

Eddie Hearn could have picked far easier opposition for the June 1st fight-date.

[Winter king]

Its not that I underestimated Ruiz, but I expected Joshua to be smarter than swinging inside with a shorter, better infighter. If he truly respected Ruiz he would have boxed smarter I think. And yes Joshua always gets hit but he invited those hooks with poor set ups and strategy. Ruiz was truly willing to die for this victory but Joshua didnt have any fire in him. Its obvious he expected an easy win.

[Syntax Error]

They have moved on to marinating Wilder and Fury now. It is a dangerous game.

Exactly; it's bonkers, marinating a fight between two guys who've already fought.

There's nothing to marinate: the rematch is hot as hell due to the nature of their original fight.

I fear that one could blow up too.

Not expecting Fury to lose to Schwarz, but Ortiz is still a dangerous proposition for Wilder.

[HomicideHenry]

Blame Vince McMahon for the "wait til WrestleMania" model that boxing promoters have grafted themselves onto. There's enough willing suckers out there to buy no matter how long they have to wait.

But it's certainly a detriment to legitimate combat sports because you're peak is awfully short, and it takes fights to stay sharp. All the weight lifting and sparring in the world cannot prepare you for the real thing if you're infrequently fighting or just facing scrubs instead of the top tier.

People hated him, but I miss Don King. He would have arranged an undisputed heavyweight championship tournament two or three times over by now.

[KiwiRider]

People hated him, but I miss Don King. He would have arranged an undisputed heavyweight championship tournament two or three times over by now.

And run off with their money!

[HomicideHenry]

And run off with their money!

Maybe, but imho the fighters today are overpaid and the promoters are all the more powerful than ever, more so than King would have thought possible. That's why there's nothing but gridlock.

At least men fought for legacy and legitimacy in those days. Nobody knows the meaning of the word anymore.

[Lackeos]

Meh. I don't have a problem with having waited as long as they did. I'd prefer that the fight not happen until at least the point where Joshua beat Povetkin and Wilder beat Ortiz; which was fairly recent.

Wlad's career was plagued with having a dearth of legacy-defining opponents available to fight. For anyone who wasn't a member of boxrec back then, there were like 100,000 posts complaining that either Wlad didn't have a legacy-defining win, that there wasn't anyone good enough to challenge him, or something of that sort; and it was annoying as f*ck. In Wlad's prime, there was no one he could've fought who was that of a Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Lewis, Holmes, Ali, or Frazier. Wlad's 10-year reign was almost like a waste of 10 years, and I think Wlad and most boxing fans would've traded all of those fights in for just one fight against someone of an elite caliber. That's also why we should support the current heavyweights trying to build-up to a fight of that caliber instead of prematurely climaxing when their resumes are still very thin. You should have some sort of self-consistent values that apply as much now as they did back then. Don't just be contrary all the time and complain about every situation.

So, I see plenty of value in Joshua / Wilder / Fury allowing the fight to marinade until it reached a fever pitch. If Joshua and Wilder fought two years ago, it wouldn't have meant much. If Wilder lost, we'd be pointing out that he never really did much to prove he was any good (his best win was Bermane Stiverne). If Wilder won, it would've been the Ruiz - Joshua situation all over again, with the winner being some guy who had no other substantial victories on his resume. Screw that, both fighters need to have victories of value on their resumes.

Ultimately, if there were a serious risk of Ruiz upsetting Joshua, the betting odds would have reflected it. His handlers had no reason to realistically think this would happen. Joshua had like a 95% chance of winning. He could've taken 7 fights of that kind, and he'd have a 70% chance of winning all 7.

[gilgamesh]

Maybe that’s what your perception of Andy Ruiz Jr. was prior to his bout against AJ, but it wasn't mine. I’ve been a big fan of his talents since early 2016, well before his bout against Joseph Parker, which I thought he won.

And I genuinely believed that the Mexican would pose a tough challenge to Anthony Joshua. Even though I didn’t expect him to win, it was always regarded as a competitive match-up to me.

This isn’t coming from someone professing wisdom built on the foundation of hindsight either, since my appreciation of Andy Ruiz Jr. is already well-documented on this forum.

And let’s not forget that a lot of boxing insiders appreciated the Mexican’s talents prior to the Joshua bout, as they too considered him a very good opponent for the Brit.

Eddie Hearn could have picked far easier opposition for the June 1st fight-date.

I said "An easier opponent that was still somewhat a contender" so I acknowledge he was seen as a contender, but certainly the lower end of the Top 10. Or maybe 11 or 12-ish.