Boxing badly needs more heavy weight classes

[Ilya Muromets]

Fury was awesome last night, but it brings me back again to the fact that boxing badly needs more heavyweight weight classifications. Right now there is no place in boxing for guys who are somewhat over 200, like me if I was still at it, as I was 6' , or 6'1" on good days, and about 210, unless they face a huge size handicap. I'd have to be in the same division as giants like Fury. 6'6" 246 pound Schwarz looked small next to him! Meanwhile the light weight classes are separated by ridiculous 3 pounds and even light heavy is only 7 pounds from super middleweight, 168 to 175, but 210 to 263, Fury's weight, is 53 pounds more than 210 (not to mention being well over a head taller)!

[Ilya Muromets]

I don't think anyone can even logically and rationally dispute this. They will say a small man can beat a big man and a 200 pound guy can hit hard and all that, but the fact remains that there is a huge handicap, and in fact no fair place in boxing, for men who are my size now that the giants like the Klitschkos and Fury prevail.

[ValMar]

Fury was awesome last night, but it brings me back again to the fact that boxing badly needs more heavyweight weight classifications. Right now there is no place in boxing for guys who are somewhat over 200, like me if I was still at it, as I was 6' , or 6'1" on good days, and about 210, unless they face a huge size handicap. I'd have to be in the same division as giants like Fury. 6'6" 246 pound Schwarz looked small next to him! Meanwhile the light weight classes are separated by ridiculous 3 pounds and even light heavy is only 7 pounds from super middleweight, 168 to 175, but 210 to 263, Fury's weight, is 53 pounds more than 210 (not to mention being well over a head taller)!

Absolutely not ! 6'1/210 guys need a little discipline to make 200 and compete at CW. Fury is an exception, 99% fighters of his size are simply "stiff robots"................

[oogiebe]

It's the last thing boxing needs. That is why I was so happy that a smallish (not weight) HW beat the symbol of the huge; powerful modern HW. Skill goes a long way. Used to be eight weight classes, and now there are something like 17. To add more further waters down the sweet science.

[Ilya Muromets]

Absolutely not ! 6'1/210 guys need a little discipline to make 200 and compete at CW. Fury is an exception, 99% fighters of his size are simply "stiff robots"................

And that's another thing they'll say, if you're say 210 or 220 you can trim down to 199, but 210 (220 and more later on in my case) was my natural weight then and I'd have gotten weaker if I tried to trim down, and then why doesn't this apply to smaller men, even light heavyweights? Why is this discriminatory reasoning only reserved for men weighing about 205 to even 225 now...and they are even calling 235 pound men small heavyweights now!

[ValMar]

Absolutely not ! 6'1/210 guys need a little discipline to make 200 and compete at CW. Fury is an exception, 99% fighters of his size are simply "stiff robots"................

I have to add something from everyday life (believe me, I have experience, more than enough).
So, the strongest men (I am not speaking about combat sports) I have ever met weighing from 190 to 210, and their height is from 5'10'' to 6'1. This is almost the rule, the exceptions are below 5%.

[Ilya Muromets]

It's the last thing boxing needs. That is why I was so happy that a smallish (not weight) HW beat the symbol of the huge; powerful modern HW. Skill goes a long way. Used to be eight weight classes, and now there are something like 17. To add more further waters down the sweet science.

I'd settle for the traditional 8 weight classes but right now all the lighter classes have their precious 3 to 7 pounds separating them so they're not told to trim down or suck it up and hit harder... but now that giants have dominated the heavyweight scene the old traditional weight classes... wasn't that anyone over 175 was a heavyweight? Great.

[ValMar]

And that's another thing they'll say, if you're say 210 or 220 you can trim down to 199, but 210 (220 and more later on in my case) was my natural weight then and I'd have gotten weaker if I tried to trim down, and then why doesn't this apply to smaller men, even light heavyweights? Why is this discriminatory reasoning only reserved for men weighing about 205 to even 225 now...and they are even calling 235 pound men small heavyweights now!

220 ? Tyson, Holyifield, young Foreman, current Wilder. Should I mention the best - Ali. 220 is quite enough to be the greatest HW all times.

[Ilya Muromets]

I have to add something from everyday life (believe me, I have experience, more than enough).
So, the strongest men (I am not speaking about combat sports) I have ever met weighing from 190 to 210, and their height is from 5'10'' to 6'1. This is almost the rule, the exceptions are below 5%.

But those rare exceptions are the ones who have dominated heavyweight boxing for the past few decades. You don't often encounter men like that walking around the street, but stand next to Tyson Fury and think how much fun it would be to fight him!

[ValMar]

But those rare exceptions are the ones who have dominated heavyweight boxing for the past few decades. You don't often encounter men like that walking around the street, but stand next to Tyson Fury and think how much fun it would be to fight him!

As I can remember there are only 3 boxers (over the 200 cm/6'7'') who were on the top or near the top : Fury, V. Klitschko and Valuev (most of the posters would tell me that Valuev had never belonged to the elite level, BTW).
......And, I can remember Ali-Frazier times...................

[evrenb]

Fury was awesome last night, but it brings me back again to the fact that boxing badly needs more heavyweight weight classifications. Right now there is no place in boxing for guys who are somewhat over 200, like me if I was still at it, as I was 6' , or 6'1" on good days, and about 210, unless they face a huge size handicap. I'd have to be in the same division as giants like Fury. 6'6" 246 pound Schwarz looked small next to him! Meanwhile the light weight classes are separated by ridiculous 3 pounds and even light heavy is only 7 pounds from super middleweight, 168 to 175, but 210 to 263, Fury's weight, is 53 pounds more than 210 (not to mention being well over a head taller)!

A 212lb heavyweight flattened Fury twice....hes big enough.

[candyslim]

Not this old chestnut again. In the past as heavyweights grew from 6' 0" and 190llbs to 6' 3" and 215 llbs, the clamour grew for a new division to be inserted between light-heavyweight and heavyweight. It was called cruiserweight and it was initially despised or disregarded for the most part.

30 years on It has become one of the most respected and well-loved divisions in recent times.

Now as heavyweights have grown from 6' 3" and 215 llbs to 6' 6" and 250 llbs there is a growing argument for a new division between cruiserweight and heavyweight. The super-cruiserweight (or heavy-cruiserweight in keeping with the nautical description) would initially be similarly unpopular, but I foresee it developing into a division that's as popular as cruiserweight is today.

I know this idea is poison to a good many of you. All I can say to you is I remember the same prevailing attitude to the introduction of cruiserweight, and how many of you would be in favour of discontinuing the cruiserweight division now?

There will always be exceptional fighters like Wilder who make a nonsense of this idea by their example, but there aren't too many who can overpower a man 40llbs heavier.

[gilgamesh]

Fury was awesome last night, but it brings me back again to the fact that boxing badly needs more heavyweight weight classifications. Right now there is no place in boxing for guys who are somewhat over 200, like me if I was still at it, as I was 6' , or 6'1" on good days, and about 210, unless they face a huge size handicap. I'd have to be in the same division as giants like Fury. 6'6" 246 pound Schwarz looked small next to him! Meanwhile the light weight classes are separated by ridiculous 3 pounds and even light heavy is only 7 pounds from super middleweight, 168 to 175, but 210 to 263, Fury's weight, is 53 pounds more than 210 (not to mention being well over a head taller)!

HEY EVERYONE. LET'S RUIN BOXING AND DESTROY IT'S RICH HISTORY

F*ck that. 180 pound men have been Heavyweight Champions having defeated 240 plus pound giants. The Heavyweight stays the same.

If there's ever a heavier weight division than Heavyweight, I'm done being a fan of the sport, but will certainly lead a loud and passionate crusade against it.

[gilgamesh]

Absolutely not ! 6'1/210 guys need a little discipline to make 200 and compete at CW. Fury is an exception, 99% fighters of his size are simply "stiff robots"................

Or they need skills. Ya know...ability to beat somebody bigger. Ya telling me it's been done in the past, but can't be done now? F*ck outta here.

[Tony1244]

HEY EVERYONE. LET'S RUIN BOXING AND DESTROY IT'S RICH HISTORY

F*ck that. 180 pound men have been Heavyweight Champions having defeated 240 plus pound giants. The Heavyweight stays the same.

If there's ever a heavier weight division than Heavyweight, I'm done being a fan of the sport, but will certainly lead a loud and passionate crusade against it.

I agree totally. If they had a "Super-HW" division in the 80s, Greg Page would have ballooned to 250 eating potato chips while Holmes would have been the real champion. If they had this in the 1960s, Buster Mathis would have had that "title."

[Controversial]

Wilder was only 212lbs against Fury. To be fair Fury is quite unique in being as big as he is but still fast and mobile. If you made a Super HW division as being anyone over 230lbs for example all that would happen is the fitter HWs would bulk up to try and win a title at the new division. The HW division has a rich history, creating a new bigger division wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe increase the CW limit a bit but leave the HW division alone.

[Enlightened-One]

Wilder was only 212lbs against Fury.

Citing exceptions doesn't undermine the general rule. Exceptions exist for almost everything in life.

No rules would ever exist if they were only created to handle 100% of occurrences of the situations they were supposed to cater for.

[oogiebe]

Wilder was only 212lbs against Fury. To be fair Fury is quite unique in being as big as he is but still fast and mobile. If you made a Super HW division as being anyone over 230lbs for example all that would happen is the fitter HWs would bulk up to try and win a title at the new division. The HW division has a rich history, creating a new bigger division wouldn't be a good idea. Maybe increase the CW limit a bit but leave the HW division alone.

Two good points (Wilder and Fury) on both ends of the spectrum. I'd rather leave all of it alone. We just had a short HW beat the consensus best in the world. I was hoping all this size stuff would go away for a while. Tactics and skill win more fights than size does.

[ironbeard]

“Boxing badly needs” less weight divisions.

[Controversial]

Citing exceptions doesn't undermine the general rule. Exceptions exist for almost everything in life.

No rules would ever exist if they were only created to handle 100% of occurrences of the situations they were supposed to cater for.

What general rule?

[gilgamesh]

“Boxing badly needs” less weight divisions.

And less Champions

[oogiebe]

And less Champions

Same old discussions.

[Controversial]

We just had a short HW beat the consensus best in the world. I was hoping all this size stuff would go away for a while. Tactics and skill win more fights than size does.

Is he that short, he's over 6' isn't he? He is listed as 6'2" on boxrec and over 19 stone, the bloke is huge compared to most people.

[oogiebe]

Is he that short, he's over 6' isn't he? He is listed as 6'2" on boxrec and over 19 stone, the bloke is huge compared to most people.

His height and reach is smaller than most top HW's and a change from the giants ruling the division. His weight is something else. Most people don't box.

[candyslim]

There should never be a division heavier than heavyweight, but boxing has a rich history of introducing intermediate divisions. How do you suppose the birth of the "super" divisions were greeted?

The way I see it is the division that gave us Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano, Patterson etc is still there to be enjoyed and admired, only now it's called cruiserweight. Now we have a wonderful old heavyweight division (cruiserweight) and also a new bigger exciting heavyweight division populated by giants. Why have one great division when you can have two?

Natural cruiserweights of supreme ability like Usyk or Holyfield can opt to try their luck in the heavier division where the real prize money resides, if they feel they have the necessary skills. Those of more mortal ability levels can keep in their lane and enjoy a successful career facing opponents of similar dimensions to themselves.

To me it was a no-brainer especially with the benefit of hindsight. I don't think I was so enlightened back then.