Short of Gold: After Demolishing Schwarz, Tyson Fury Waits for the “Biggest Fight in Boxing”

[thenonpareil]

And for the fourth time (!), a wry joke Jimmy Lennon Jr. slipped into Fury’s fighter introduction because the “Gypsy King,” alas, is short on gold. Beyond the fact that his invisible hardware hardly added to the bout’s significance, the obsession with lineal titles feels desperate. Fury may be the lineal heavyweight champion, but that distinction draws its significance—and its utility—from the absence of belts around his waist. One might counter, saying that Fury became the heavyweight champion of the world when he dethroned Wladimir Klitschko in 2015, and still would be were he not stripped of his titles for failing to defend them. While both points are valid, one wonders whether anyone would’ve rated Fury’s victory over Klitschko as highly had only the lineal title been on the line. Besides, fetishizing a title once worn by Buster Douglas and Shannon Briggs is odd behavior. The lineal champion need not be the best fighter in the division, and it’s hard to see why being able to trace the belt’s history back to John L. Sullivan somehow legitimizes it more. Hanging over these tortured and tortuous conversations about lineality is this: the champion makes the title. Being a champion brings responsibilities, and Fury, who came unhinged under the weight of them, failed to act as a champion once he became one.

https://hannibalboxing.com/short-of-gol ... in-boxing/

[SteveO]

The way I see it, whoever holds a sanctioning body title and belt are really just belt holders. The WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO etc. could each have a different 'belt holder' in the same weight division - so who would be the real champion?
The obvious answer is 'the man who beat the man', by that reasoning the lineal title is the most important.

[JimStone]

Lol, short of gold! He was paid more than a king's ransom to bang out that can the other day. No easier way to make big money than that.

[leejonesjnr]

The way I see it, whoever holds a sanctioning body title and belt are really just belt holders. The WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO etc. could each have a different 'belt holder' in the same weight division - so who would be the real champion?
The obvious answer is 'the man who beat the man', by that reasoning the lineal title is the most important.

Lineal means following the lineage.
That means that there is no heavyweight champion.

[SteveO]

Lineal means following the lineage.
That means that there is no heavyweight champion.

You know as well as I do that when a lineage is broken a new one is eventually formed.
After Lennox Lewis' permanent retirement a new lineage was formed with Wladimir Klitscho, Fury beat him and is therefore the current lineal champion - but of course you knew that really.

[JimStone]

Yep, lineal is a load of bollocks imo too.

None of them are world champion until it's undisputed and those top four or five could all beat each other on any given day so it's a no goer with this generation.

Ruiz, Usyk, Fury, Wilder. One of the aforementioned needs to beat the other three to be world champ for me and quick before the next big dude comes through.

[SteveO]

Yep, lineal is a load of bollocks imo too.

None of them are world champion until it's undisputed and those top four or five could all beat each other on any given day so it's a no goer with this generation.

Ruiz, Usyk, Fury, Wilder. One of the aforementioned needs to beat the other three to be world champ for me and quick before the next big dude comes through.

You may not like it (and you obviously don't) but it is what it is - read the record books!
A new lineage is formed when the recognized #1 and #2 boxers fight each other.

[jamamb]

how many times did fury announce his reitrement

they are all essentially just labels of champ, each with own criticism. no single one of them should be taken as the ultimate authoirty. for that youd need something more like the old system, which you had only 1 major world title and the champs pretty much had to defend vs the best, instead of not fighting for 3 years, remaining champ despite saying ur retired and getting busted for peds, and then getting credited for title defenses vs sefer sferi

i think in general 'lineal' has a higher standard to acquire it, but then there is like almost no obligation or standard to keep that status. you can turn into an inactive blimp and get credited with title defenses for 1 fight in 3 years, vs a total can sefer

[KiwiRider]

In my mind Fury is the #1 HW.
He should have been given the nod against Wilder, and that was a really good win given where he came from leading up to it. Wilders team thought it was the perfect time to beat him and were lucky to get a draw.
AJ got beat fair and square.
So that leaves Fury. Still unbeaten.
And not paying all those crooks sanctioning fees like AJ was.
Canelo Alverez dosent need belts to be at the top, if he wanted them, he would have all of them

[SteveO]

how many times did fury announce his reitrement

they are all essentially just labels of champ, each with own criticism. no single one of them should be taken as the ultimate authoirty. for that youd need something more like the old system, which you had only 1 major world title and the champs pretty much had to defend vs the best, instead of not fighting for 3 years, remaining champ despite saying ur retired and getting busted for peds, and then getting credited for title defenses vs sefer sferi

i think in general 'lineal' has a higher standard to acquire it, but then there is like almost no obligation or standard to keep that status. you can turn into an inactive blimp and get credited with title defenses for 1 fight in 3 years, vs a total can sefer

Many heavyweight champions took long periods between title fights including James J Corbett (3 years +), Fitzsimmons (2 years +), Jack Dempsey (2 years), James J Braddock (2 years) etc. etc.
As for defending the title against no-hopers have a look at Joe Louis' title defences.

[leejonesjnr]

You know as well as I do that when a lineage is broken a new one is formed

Like if someone officially retired and were an admitted drugs cheat?

[KiwiRider]

If the rumours are true and he fights Miller next, it will be the biggest fight in boxing. At least by combined height and um, girth.

[SteveO]

Like if someone officially retired and were an admitted drugs cheat?

Fury never officially retired. He is still the lineal champion.
For example: His recent fight against Schwarz was billed as such (see the posters), introduced in the ring as such and reported by the world's press as such.
Like I said in a previous post - it is what it is, like it or not.

[leejonesjnr]

Fury never officially retired. He is still the lineal champion.
For example: His recent fight against Schwarz was billed as such (see the posters), introduced in the ring as such and reported by the world's press as such.
Like I said in a previous post - it is what it is, like it or not.

He said ‘I’m retired’, didn’t hold a license and was absent from the world of boxing.
He retired.
Putting something on a poster or having it announced by an MC doesn’t make something true.
Tyson Fury said over and over that he was boxing the world number 2 in Schwarz, that doesn’t make it true.
My mother says she is a size 14, that isn’t true either.
I don’t really like it or not like it, currently Tyson Fury is not a champion of any kind, that’s just how it is.

[stujones]

Fury retired , was stripped of all belts, failed a drugs test...returned and drew with Wilder....while I have him #1 currently I cannot see him as a champion.

[fanman]

well fury is the lineal champ. he beat vlad, took 2 years out and came back and was robbed against the no,2 , wilder.
fury is now ranked no.1.
though he has no belt and no need to defend against top contenders.
there is no real champ right now, until fury/wilder/joshua/ruiz eliminate each other. but fury is no.1.
too bad aj didnt fight wilder, as that would have created a new undisputed champ.

[daviddee]

He said ‘I’m retired’, didn’t hold a license and was absent from the world of boxing.
He retired.
Putting something on a poster or having it announced by an MC doesn’t make something true.
Tyson Fury said over and over that he was boxing the world number 2 in Schwarz, that doesn’t make it true.
My mother says she is a size 14, that isn’t true either.
I don’t really like it or not like it, currently Tyson Fury is not a champion of any kind, that’s just how it is.

Tyson Fury is the best Heavyweight boxer in the world anyone who thinks different are deluded.. As for lineal champion yes it isn’t a real thing really.. But in saying that all these belts don’t mean your World Champion.. Fury is #1 and Wilder is #2, he beat Wilder and boxing politics saved Wilder as it suited to keep Wilder as Champ.. Boxing is about money nothing else.. Joshua was found out because Hearn got too greedy and thought he was missing out on a trick with Fury going to America

[jamesmcdonnell]

Fury is probably the best out there right now, but he isn't a champion yet. Simple as that.

[ironbeard]

Gudlawd Furyots are a desperate lot.

[cormack]

lineal chump