P4P Best Welsh Boxer Ever? Wilde Or Calzaghe?

[chrisjs1985]

Good picks Elmer. These are the best five, without a doubt.

Miles Templeton.

Hi Miles, stumbled across this thread. I'm fascinated by Welsh boxing history and feel it's an area I want to learn more about especially the pre-war era.

What about Percy Jones? I notice on his record it shows he lost European title lineage with the defeat against Symonds but not IBU lineage. Was he stripped for failure to make weight then? I don't see the weights of his bouts afterwards listed but read that he had weight problems for a while. Interesting career. He was done with the game early and sadly died young but has a hell of a record and good KO rate. The first ever Welshman to win the title I believe.

Regarding Wilde, he's a fighter I've always wanted to get further reading on but have only ever tracked down the books he penned and I heard mixed reviews and they are priced high where I've seen them. Didn't Gareth Davies write a book? I never saw that anywhere. Any idea if it's available to purchase anywhere? Can you recommend any books on Wilde that I'm not seeing?

Also, any further reading or perhaps documentaries on Freddie Welsh and Jim Driscoll?

[chrisjs1985]

Calzaghe is my favorite British fighter of my lifetime and feel he gets massively underrated but he can't rate over Wilde. Wilde is basically a lock for top 20-30 all-time, surely? He's basically what Eder Jofre is to Brazilian boxers. I think Welsh, Driscol and Calzaghe seem close enough to move around in any order. Calzaghe won all the belts in the end, won some unification bouts so despite a lot of wasted time his career was superb. That's a hell of a Mount Rushmore they have produced and it stretched over a long time period.

[Onetimeonly]

Calzaghe is my favorite British fighter of my lifetime and feel he gets massively underrated but he can't rate over Wilde. Wilde is basically a lock for top 20-30 all-time, surely? He's basically what Eder Jofre is to Brazilian boxers. I think Welsh, Driscol and Calzaghe seem close enough to move around in any order. Calzaghe won all the belts in the end, won some unification bouts so despite a lot of wasted time his career was superb. That's a hell of a Mount Rushmore they have produced and it stretched over a long time period.

Wilde gets locked at 20-30, no reason to be there though. He and Perez are both very shallow resume wise.

[elmersalsa]

Wilde gets locked at 20-30, no reason to be there though. He and Perez are both very shallow resume wise.

They were very dominant for flyweights

[Onetimeonly]

They were very dominant for flyweights

[chrisjs1985]

Wilde gets locked at 20-30, no reason to be there though. He and Perez are both very shallow resume wise.

I think if we are talking pound for pound you’ve got to consider how small he was. To beat Memphis Pal Moore and Joe Lynch is huge also. Then a level below that the likes of Tancy Lee, Joe Symonds, Sid Smith, Joe Conn and on top of it the total dominance, volume of fights, how he stood out so much etc; some guys stop others being great with their dominance.

I think when you add it all up he’s deserving of that lofty ranking IMHO.

[Onetimeonly]

I used to have him there. More top 75-100 to me now. Fidel labarba is one I'd have above him.

[Ambling Alp II]

He is difficult to rate. There are aren't a lot of recognizable names on his record. I think some people rate him too highly because of the stories of him beating guys way bigger than himself, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation of this actually happening. On the other hand, I think some people blow him off because they simply don't know enough about him.

[chrisjs1985]

He is difficult to rate. There are aren't a lot of recognizable names on his record. I think some people rate him too highly because of the stories of him beating guys way bigger than himself, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation of this actually happening. On the other hand, I think some people blow him off because they simply don't know enough about him.

I think there's a decent amount but it does appear there are gray areas with a lot of his career. However, a lot of the weights are documented. Miles Templeton posted a good little write-up on his fight with Joe Conn, which included photos showing the size disparity. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=221673&start=25

There's also the Pal Moore and Lynch wins. All-time greats at Bantamweight, in which I believe he was more than a 2-1 underdog vs. Moore and absolutely outweighed. Lynch had more than 10 lbs on him.

[Ambling Alp II]

To me, that is impressive Not enough to put him with the legends though.

[Onetimeonly]

To me, that is impressive Not enough to put him with the legends though.

none of the flyweights he beat have much to their record past fighting him. His two best wins were at bantam. Who's after that? Frankie Mason? His resume is about the same as mark Johnson at fly. Amazing he's the default king of the division

[elmersalsa]

To me, that is impressive Not enough to put him with the legends though.

You got to be kidding me!

Jimmy Wilde is an all-time pound per pound great. He belongs with the top 25 best ever.