Whyte dropped to three in WBO Ratings

[oogiebe]

I know you're trying to turn this into something its not, but its pretty simple: any fighter that turns down a title shot should be dropped from that titles rankings. As I said before, ivisional rankings shouldn't be tied up because someone rated number one doesn't want to fight for any reason.

I can't remember another time that a fighter turned down a title shot.

[jamamb]

pov ducked a wlad fight for years

[oogiebe]

pov ducked a wlad fight for years

I honestly don't recall that. What was his reason?

[candyslim]

So Ortiz, Whyte, Fury etc should all be dropped from the rankings, right? You're going to have someone like Agit Kabayel as number one going by your methods.

I'm not trying to make it anything it's not. I'm just reporting the facts as I believe them to be and lobbying for the application of a little commonsense. It's late here I'll pick it up tomorrow.

[oogiebe]

So Ortiz, Whyte, Fury etc should all be dropped from the rankings, right? You're going to have someone like Agit Kabayel as number one going by your methods.

I'm not trying to make it anything it's not. I'm just reporting the facts as I believe them to be and lobbying for the application of a little commonsense. It's late here I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Dude! What are you going on about? Who are you posting in response to?

[Onetimeonly]

I honestly don't recall that. What was his reason?

He hurt his ankle on a tree root, pulled out, teddy Atlas came aboard and didn't want pov fighting anyone dangerous so he kept quacking about.

[greg]

..Whyte has no-one to blame but himself...should have jumped at this opportunity to fight the champ instead of making lowball excuses, end of..

[punchoutsb]

So Ortiz, Whyte, Fury etc should all be dropped from the rankings, right? You're going to have someone like Agit Kabayel as number one going by your methods.

I'm not trying to make it anything it's not. I'm just reporting the facts as I believe them to be and lobbying for the application of a little commonsense. It's late here I'll pick it up tomorrow.

Yes, after a fighter turns down a title shot they should be dropped in the rankings of that org. If common sense was really common you wouldn't be struggling to understand why this is logical.

[Finkel]

Yes, after a fighter turns down a title shot they should be dropped in the rankings of that org. If common sense was really common you wouldn't be struggling to understand why this is logical.

I see where you are both coming from, but taking such a hard line position against Whyte on those grounds would potentially have disastrous long term implications.

The belt holder could in theory make terrible financial offers to the #1 contender with horrendous rematch clauses included, as a way to duck dangerous opponents.

So by being so strict in rejecting voluntary defences you would potentially be moving more power and control into the hands of promoters

Both Whyte and Ruiz would have been voluntary defences, but Ruiz was in a different situation; he was effectively out in the cold and his career has stalled since the Parker loss, so he jumped at the chance to fight for the belts. But now he finds himself tied into a rematch clause and the control of that rematch still seems to be with Hearn and Joshua.

[punchoutsb]

I see where you are both coming from, but taking such a hard line position against Whyte on those grounds would potentially have disastrous long term implications.

The belt holder could in theory make terrible financial offers to the #1 contender with horrendous rematch clauses included, as a way to duck dangerous opponents.

So by being so strict in rejecting voluntary defences you would potentially be moving more power and control into the hands of promoters

Both Whyte and Ruiz would have been voluntary defences, but Ruiz was in a different situation; he was effectively out in the cold and his career has stalled since the Parker loss, so he jumped at the chance to fight for the belts. But now he finds himself tied into a rematch clause and the control of that rematch still seems to be with Hearn and Joshua.

Definitely a good point, and if rankings bodies actually did what I'm suggesting then they would doubtless put something in place to prevent what you're describing from happening.

In this case Whyte turned down 4 million pounds, AND a shot at three belts, AND a chance to rematch a rival, AND a chance to avenge a loss so I don't feel sorry for him at all.

[Nondescript]

Oleksandr Usyk was the mandatory anyway (based on his "super champion" status) and Tyson Fury just captured the WBO's inter-continental title from Tom Schwarz during his most recent outing.

Perhaps an anonymous cherry-picker like Dillian Whyte, who does his upmost to duck any half-decent opposition, doesn't really deserve a shot at one of the world heavyweight titles?

It might be time for him to consider going down the route of fighters that choose to take high-risks, such as Eric Molina, Luis Ortiz, Bermane Stiverne & Dominic Breazeale, since these guys are absolute killers who are fearless and willing to face anyone (as contenders) in order to earn their shot at the title, regardless of their reputation.

What sort of world do we live in where fighters like Eric Molina are given multiple opportunities to challenge for the world heavyweight title?

The WBO have already relegated Dillian Whyte in the rankings and the WBC threatened to do the same if he doesn’t stop bad mouthing them about the way they've handled his situation.

The IBF doesn't even rate him and likes of Mahmoud Charr, Joe Joyce, Trevor Bryan, Oleksandr Usyk and Fres Oquendo are all rated above Dillian Whyte in the WBA’s rankings.

He had a chance to fight Joshua in a rematch for a bunch of world titles. He turned it down because he wasn't happy with £4 million.

We've been over this.

[Nondescript]

parker, chis x2, helenius, browne is better for sure then orts wins over the same period, and of course rivas is a solid contender. no one has matched this consistency of opposition lately without having had a shot. its certanly not the opposition that should be questioned for whyte and whether he desercves a shot for that, its more a question if he shouldve taken what he was offered vs aj etc

Rivas best win is a shot version of Bryant Jennings who Ortiz knocked out years ago when he was coming off giving Klitschko a difficult fight.

[jamamb]

shot based on what

rivas and ort have there best win over the same guy. you obviously r giving the negative spin on everything whyte

[Nondescript]

Hey Dagi I think you need to start thinking of reasons why a win over Rivas deserves no credit because there is a strong possibility Whyte could beat him.

It's easy to sneer at Lucas Browne now but before Whyte knocked him TF out, people like me who have Whyte's best interests at heart, were as nervous for him as they now are about him facing Rivas. He isn't the best in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but he consistently takes on opponents that (before the fight) are given a very good chance of beating him, which is a lot more than be said for most of the world's top ten.

Don't listen to me. I'm British and I'm very biased toward Dillian. Listen instead to Enlightened One who is neutral and clearly has a lot of respect for Whyte based purely on his achievements. He is not alone in that.

Browne just got knocked out by a British area level figher who wasn't good enough to win a commonwealth title. He's shot to hell.

[jamamb]

ya everyone whyte fights is just total shot and overrated trash, what a b!tch

[Nondescript]

I agree with your assertion about Dillian Whyte being very beatable, but despite his stylistic flaws, he always finds a way to win. And he’s clearly not scared to share the ring with anyone. He has the finest resume of any currently active fighter that has never fought for any version of a world title.

I also believe that Whyte has improved immensely since his loss to AJ, because he’s no longer a crude slugger.

Dillian had been a pro for 4½ years when he faced AJ in 2015 and it’s been 3½ years since that defeat. Time doesn’t stand still and Whyte is a better fighter today than he was back then. Pretending otherwise and continuously brining up that loss is simply wrong!

I wouldn’t dismiss his chances of beating any of today’s top-ten heavyweights, barring Tyson Fury. Not because ‘The Gypsy King’ is that damn good, but since I feel his style is all wrong from Whyte.

The thing about Dillian, is that despite him being a limited fighter, is that he’s an overachiever that doesn’t know how to lose (unless he’s knocked unconscious). And that makes him a dangerous heavyweight for any fighter (not named Tyson Fury) to overcome.

In terms of the reason why I feel Dillian Whyte is being “ducked” by his peers, is that I believe it’s due to him being self-managed and not having any ties to any promoter or broadcaster.

And as we already know, the sports’ governing bodies tend to show favoritism towards certain boxing content providers (i.e. Bob Arum/Fṙḁṅḱ Ẁḁṙṙḛṅ = WBO; PBC = WBC; Matchroom = WBA/IBF).

So it’s not in any boxing content providers’ best interest to grant Dillian Whyte a shot at one of the world titles they hold possession of if they can’t retain control over The Body Snatcher’s subsequent fights, because it’s not worth risking the loss of those belts.

Do you not think that other fighters improve with time though? So since Whyte and Joshua last fought, Whyte has improved immeasurably, but Joshua has stayed at exactly the same level?

I don't buy that.

Since they first fought, Joshua still has wins over Klitschko and Povetkin.

[candyslim]

Dude! What are you going on about? Who are you posting in response to?

Come on Oogie get with the programme. Who's the guy advocating that Whyte should lose his ranking, and doesn't deserve a title shot because he didn't accept Hearn's offer? He knows who I'm talking to even if you don't.

[candyslim]

Browne just got knocked out by a British area level figher who wasn't good enough to win a commonwealth title. He's shot to hell.

Yes we know that now but at the time Whyte fought him he was undefeated and had knocked out Chagaev in his own back yard. Whyte didn't know he was going to be facing a tub of lard did he?

[candyslim]

Yes, after a fighter turns down a title shot they should be dropped in the rankings of that org. If common sense was really common you wouldn't be struggling to understand why this is logical.

Finkel has already answered this but it's pretty bloody obvious that if you can get your toughest challengers removed from the rankings by offering them peanuts, what do you think is going to happen? It's hardly rocket-science.

If you have been made mandatory by an organization and you turn it down, then the organization has every right to remove you from their mandatory slot, although you haven't suddenly become a poorer fighter so dropping you from their rankings is damaging to their credibility (not that any of them seem bothered by how pathetic their rankings look)

The IBF have more reason to be pissed off with Dillian because he turned down the opportunity to fight their final eliminator with Pulev in Sofia for 25% of a shitty purse, choosing instead to fight Parker on UK PPV. Miller turned it down too despite having no better option. Better ban him too, oh wait.

A champion making a voluntary defence is free to fight who the hell he wants, and if negotiations fall through with just one or a whole host of possible challengers that is no business of any sanctioning body, and if you can't see that then there's little point continuing this dialogue.

[punchoutsb]

Finkel has already answered this but it's pretty bloody obvious that if you can get your toughest challengers removed from the rankings by offering them peanuts, what do you think is going to happen? It's hardly rocket-science.

Yes Finkels fictional what-if was a good point and one that would have to be addressed if orgs actually implemented this. I already responded to him

The real life scenario is that he turned down what must be close to a career high payday and a chance to fight for three world titles. He doesn't want to fight for this title...even you admitted that so why keep him ranked number one?

If you have been made mandatory by an organization and you turn it down, then the organization has every right to remove you from their mandatory slot, although you haven't suddenly become a poorer fighter so dropping you from their rankings is damaging to their credibility (not that any of them seem bothered by how pathetic their rankings look)

Winning a title also doesn't make you a poorer fighter so where is Wilder ranked by the IBF, WBA, WBO? Ruiz by WBC? Rankings haven't been determined by a fighters quality in a long time. They're political to reflect the orgs wants. Did you really not know this?

The IBF have more reason to be pissed off with Dillian because he turned down the opportunity to fight their final eliminator with Pulev in Sofia for 25% of a shitty purse, choosing instead to fight Parker on UK PPV. Miller turned it down too despite having no better option. Better ban him too, oh wait.

Neither Whyte or Miller are in the IBF top ten so I'm not really sure if this was a point you were trying to make or if your cat walked across the keyboard.

A champion making a voluntary defence is free to fight who the hell he wants, and if negotiations fall through with just one or a whole host of possible challengers that is no business of any sanctioning body, and if you can't see that then there's little point continuing this dialogue.

You have finally made a good point; there is no point continuing this dialogue since you seem to be the kind to call your ex and tell them they're still number one in your heart even though they don't want it.

[Nondescript]

shot based on what

rivas and ort have there best win over the same guy. you obviously r giving the negative spin on everything whyte

Shot based on the fact he was dropped by Dimitrenko in the fight before Rivas. Dimitrenko himself has been shot for years, and wasn't very good to begin with. He was never a puncher either.

The fight against Joyce will tell us more.

[jamamb]

well i see your point, but then again, 'prime' jennings was dropped by tupou, who i think is worse then dimmy

[candyslim]

Yes Finkels fictional what-if was a good point and one that would have to be addressed if orgs actually implemented this. I already responded to him

The real life scenario is that he turned down what must be close to a career high payday and a chance to fight for three world titles. He doesn't want to fight for this title...even you admitted that so why keep him ranked number one?

It's not fictional it's simple cause and effect. My problem is not that Usyk has replaced Whyte as mandatory, they have their rules, it's your absurd suggestion he should be penalized for rejecting a fight that was not demanded of him by any sanctioning body. Your brilliant solution to the blindingly obvious problem this creates? ... "It would have to be addressed". The orgs would address it by doing whatever TF they want like they always do.

Winning a title also doesn't make you a poorer fighter so where is Wilder ranked by the IBF, WBA, WBO? Ruiz by WBC? Rankings haven't been determined by a fighters quality in a long time. They're political to reflect the orgs wants. Did you really not know this?

Of course I know it, it doesn't stop it making their ratings unrealistic though. Whyte turned down the Joshua fight. Ortiz turned down the Joshua fight. Fury turned down the Joshua fight. Wilder turned down the Joshua fight. They all had their reasons. Deal with it.

Neither Whyte or Miller are in the IBF top ten so I'm not really sure if this was a point you were trying to make or if your cat walked across the keyboard.

I think you'll find Whyte is and Miller may or may not have been, I really don't care. The point is the principle. The IBF nominated Dillian to contest their final eliminator. He snubbed them so they have every right to penalize him within the context of their own rankings/ mandatory status. Dillian did not snub the WBO because they were not asking him to fight Joshua. Is the destinction really that difficult for you to grasp?

You have finally made a good point; there is no point continuing this dialogue since you seem to be the kind to call your ex and tell them they're still number one in your heart even though they don't want it.

What TF are you talking about, no don't bother. I don't want to know.

[punchoutsb]

It's not fictional it's simple cause and effect. My problem is not that Usyk has replaced Whyte as mandatory, they have their rules, it's your absurd suggestion he should be penalized for rejecting a fight that was not demanded of him by any sanctioning body. Your brilliant solution to the blindingly obvious problem this creates? ... "It would have to be addressed". The orgs would address it by doing whatever TF they want like they always do.

Is addressing potential problems a difficult concept to you? Innovation doesn't come without needed to address any potential problems it could create. You seem simple.

Of course I know it, it doesn't stop it making their ratings unrealistic though. Whyte turned down the Joshua fight. Ortiz turned down the Joshua fight. Fury turned down the Joshua fight. Wilder turned down the Joshua fight. They all had their reasons. Deal with it.

Looks like you didn't know it. Rankings are not skill based.

I think you'll find Whyte is and Miller may or may not have been, I really don't care. The point is the principle. The IBF nominated Dillian to contest their final eliminator. He snubbed them so they have every right to penalize him within the context of their own rankings/ mandatory status. Dillian did not snub the WBO because they were not asking him to fight Joshua. Is the destinction really that difficult for you to grasp?

They're not rated by the IBF...is this an admission your cat walked across your keyboard?

What TF are you talking about, no don't bother. I don't want to know.

You didn't want to keep talking either but here you are. Maybe time to move on?

[oogiebe]

This started out a decent thread.