The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

[elmersalsa]

Saldivar was a great fighter. If not for his retirement after the third Winstone fight it's likely Winstone, Legra (first reign) and Famechon don't win the title and perhaps Saldivar fights Harada? Those Winstone fights were excellent, real high class stuff with Saldivar just being too strong and complete for him. I felt Famechon was really close to him in their fight but Saldivar just about deserved it.

I'd personally have Saldivar just inside the top five boxers to ever come out of Mexico. I've seen some think he's as high as number two or three.

He indeed was something special. I am looking at his fight with fellow hall of famer Ismael Laguna of Panama. It is fast paced all the way.

[chrisjs1985]

He indeed was something special. I am looking at his fight with fellow hall of famer Ismael Laguna of Panama. It is fast paced all the way.

That's an excellent fight. I thought Laguna probably just about deserved the nod in that one. Good, close fight. I'll watch that again and score it soon.

[elmersalsa]

Was Ismael Laguna robbed against El Zurdo de Oro? Maybe. It was a very close fight in my opinion. It could have gone either way.

I am impressed with Saldivar's foot and hand speed. He was pretty fast. Great footwork for a brawler. He could take a punch as well.

I saw his fight with Floyd Robertson of Ghana. Robertson, a good challenger for Saldivar's crown, was quickly dispatched in 2 rounds.

I saw his fight were Saldivar lost his first professional fight by disqualification against Baby Luis of Cuba. It was a very strange loss that the crowd started throwing debris to the ring. It was odd to see how did he lost that fight.

[elmersalsa]

I just saw Vicente Saldivar's title winning effort against Sugar Ramos. It was a butchery. Saldivar really whupped Ramos' azz!

I also saw his fight when he lost the lineal featherweightweight crown to Kuniaki Shibata by technical knockout.

[chrisjs1985]

I think Ramos should have already moved up. He was totally dead at the weight by then. Unfortunately for Ramos, I think those two deaths ruined him mentally.

Saldivar-Shiabata is a fun fight too. Notice Nacho Beristain in the corner? It’s 1970 and he looks like he did in the 90s still.

[elmersalsa]

I think Ramos should have already moved up. He was totally dead at the weight by then. Unfortunately for Ramos, I think those two deaths ruined him mentally.

Saldivar-Shiabata is a fun fight too. Notice Nacho Beristain in the corner? It’s 1970 and he looks like he did in the 90s still.

Yeah. The trainer stopped the fight. It wasn't Vicente that quit. He wanted to continue. But, Saldivar didn't looked as sharp as other times. He was slower and his timing was a little off. Not to take nothing away from Kuniaki Shibata. He fought a great fight that night in Tijuana, Mexico.

[elmersalsa]

I have finished watching all of El Zurdo de Oro's fights with Howard Winstone. Winstone was a hell of a fighter, but he ran into one of the greatest that ever laced them up.

Kuniaki Shibata caught a fading Saldivar. All of those 4 were great fights.

[chrisjs1985]

I have finished watching all of El Zurdo de Oro's fights with Howard Winstone. Winstone was a hell of a fighter, but he ran into one of the greatest that ever laced them up.

Kuniaki Shibata caught a fading Saldivar. All of those 4 were great fights.

I think Winstone was fantastic. He had an incredible left hand. Many compare his skills and ability with Buchanan. Eddie Thomas taught both how to jab and use the left hand. Thomas was a good pro himself, he beat Billy Graham once and was the British and European champion. Buchanan's dad had him out in Wales training in Merthyr Tydfil with Thomas. That small town alone has statues of three of their favorite sons - Johnny Owen, Eddie Thomas and Howard Winstone.

Fortunately for Buchanan he was able to win a title before Duran and still beat a number of good opponents afterwards whereas Winstone got his title shot(s) when Saldivar was already the champion and those three fights took a lot out of him. He eventually won the vacant title when Saldivar briefly retired but was then destroyed by Jose Legra. Saldivar stopped at least one of those excellent featherweights - Johnny Famechon, Legra and Winstone from being great IMO. He was such a great, dominant champion.

[elmersalsa]

Saldivar vs Mitsunori Seki fight #2 was a beat down.

[elmersalsa]

Vicente Saldivar vs Johnny Famechon. It was Saldivar's second reign as champion. He clearly beat Famechon to win his title back. Saldivar wins the WBC World Featherweight Title. Saldivar is champ for the second time. It was Saldivar's last hurrah.

[chrisjs1985]

Vicente Saldivar vs Johnny Famechon. It was Saldivar's second reign as champion. He clearly beat Famechon to win his title back. Saldivar wins the WBC World Featherweight Title. Saldivar is champ for the second time. It was Saldivar's last hurrah.

Famechon was an excellent fighter but the decision he got against Legra was criminal. He came much closer to beating Saldivar.

[elmersalsa]

Famechon was an excellent fighter but the decision he got against Legra was criminal. He came much closer to beating Saldivar.

Some people on YouTube argued that Johnny Famechon got robbed. Well, in my view, he didn't do enough to keep his crown.

[elmersalsa]

That's an excellent fight. I thought Laguna probably just about deserved the nod in that one. Good, close fight. I'll watch that again and score it soon.

I saw again last night and really, Laguna won that fight. It was very close.

[chrisjs1985]

Some people on YouTube argued that Johnny Famechon got robbed. Well, in my view, he didn't do enough to keep his crown.

Probably Aussies. I posted Famechon-Legra and you see one guy saying how the commentary was biased. No, Legra was the better fighter and deserved to keep the title. Famechon was excellent, like I said. I do believe he was closer to beating Saldivar than he was to beating Legra and Harada in fight I. Of course, he did a number on Harada in the re-match.

I saw again last night and really, Laguna won that fight. It was very close.

I felt it was really, really close but that Laguna just about edged it.

[elmersalsa]

And to say the least, I enjoyed every single fight of the great Vicente Saldivar. What a fighter, my friends! The only thing that should have changed in his career was to fight more often. He only had 40 fights. Also, he should have tried for the Jr Lightweight and lightweight crowns. But, his career as is was special. That's why he's at #98. Maybe he knew after his first brief retirement that he didn't have it anymore. I would have loved to see him fight the great bantanweight champions like Eder Jofre and Fighting Harada in the mid-60s decade. It would have been some thrillers.

Next, we got another terrific fighter in his own right. He is the poster boy of boxing's tough guys. Probably the last great white fighter born in American soil. His name? The great Gene Fullmer. He is at #97 spot because of great work ethic and determination.

#97. Gene Fullmer:

Record: 55-6-3, 24KOs

KO percentage is 44%

Career: 1951-63

Titles held: World Middleweight Champion (1957). NBA World Middleweight Champion (1959-62).

Highlights: A two-time middleweight world champion who was a poster boy of tough and rough fighters. Was truly the last great white American boxer in an era of great fighters. Beat top welterweights and middleweights of the 1950s and early 60s decade. Won his first 29 bouts. After losing to the great Sugar Ray Robinson by knockout, went into another unbeaten streak of 17 bouts from June 1957 to December 1961. Beat 4 out of 5 world champions he faced. Record versus world champions was 6-3-3 with 2KOs. Beat 2 out of 3 hall of famers. Record versus hall of fame boxers is 4-3-3, with 2KOs.

Historical Impact: Rugged fighter of great will and determination with incredible stamina, is considered one of the best middleweight boxers of all time. He is the ONLY FIGHTER on record to have a winning series against the great Sugar Ray Robinson (Record vs Robinson was 2-1-1). And has the distinction to be the only man to stop the great Carmen Basilio twice.

Defining Fight: W15 Sugar Ray Robinson... January 2, 1957..."Beats boxing's greatest to become champ"
Other Defining Bouts: LKO5 Sugar Ray Robinson (II), WTKO14 Carmen Basilio, W15 Florentino Fernandez, WKO10 Benny "Kid" Paret, W10 Gil Turner and L15 Dick Tiger

What are your thoughts of Gene Fullmer? He was as tough as they come.

[elmersalsa]

I just saw Gene Fullmer first two fights with the original Sugar Ray. He is as tough as they come. Rugged, tough, strong and with great stamina. He was also some kind of dirty. He hit Robinson too many rabbit punches and the referee? Well, he said nothing. Gene clearly won the first fight. He dropped Ray in the seventh round. He imposed his will and body on Robinson. He roughed him up. He was 25 at the time with 40 fights. A Mormon from West Jordan, UT. Sugar Ray at 35 had 145 fights with only 4 losses and 140 wins, in which he scored 90 knockouts! He had already been middleweight king 3 times by the time he fought Gene.

In the rematch, however, Robinson was much more aggressive. And nobody thought that Fullmer was going to get stopped that early. It was called "The Perfect Punch". It was a left hook. Short. Precise. Powerful. A thing of beauty. I will see the third and fourth fights between them.

[APerno]

He certainly had Basilio's number; and for the most part SRR's as well. Take away that one punch loss and he jumps ten spots on this list. Looks to have fought everyone available. He has a special place in my heart because he was willing to tangle with the always dangerous, (and the best name ever,) Spider Webb.

[elmersalsa]

He certainly had Basilio's number; and for the most part SRR's as well. Take away that one punch loss and he jumps ten spots on this list. Looks to have fought everyone available. He has a special place in my heart because he was willing to tangle with the always dangerous, (and the best name ever,) Spider Webb.

Gene Fullmer surely fought THE VERY BEST of his era. He was the last great white American boxer in my view. He could really tangle with anybody. I imagine if he fights guys like Carlos Monzon, Marvelous, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran at middleweight. It would be fun to watch.

How about The Cyclone versus these guys?:
Iran Barkley
Nigel Benn
Vito Antuofermo
Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Jake LaMotta

[APerno]

He certainly had Basilio's number; and for the most part SRR's as well. Take away that one punch loss and he jumps ten spots on this list. Looks to have fought everyone available. He has a special place in my heart because he was willing to tangle with the always dangerous, (and the best name ever,) Spider Webb.

Gene Fullmer surely fought THE VERY BEST of his era. He was the last great white American boxer in my view. He could really tangle with anybody. I imagine if he fights guys like Carlos Monzon, Marvelous, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran at middleweight. It would be fun to watch.

How about The Cyclone versus these guys?:
Iran Barkley
Nigel Benn
Vito Antuofermo
Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Jake LaMotta

OK some predictions:

He would be able to handle Hearns' right hand long enough to out muscle him, Fullmer by TKO middle rounds.
Duran is too small, Fullmer bullies him to a UD W.
He would take Barkley apart; Fullmer could box with SRR; TKO.
Antuofermo is stopped in six rounds too, TKO.
Don't know Benn well enough to have an opinion.
Valdez. You got to give this one to Fullmer; 2-1-1 against Robinson; Valdez was great but does he bring more to the fight than SRR did?
LaMotta, I think Fullmer prevails by decision. Frustrating, maybe even boring fight. Fullmer by SD.
I would like to watch Graziano fight live, anyone, just once; Graziano could hurt Fullmer with his right hands, but if he doesn't land them early he gets taken to school and stopped inside of six rounds.
No real opinion on Zale; if I had to bet, I'd bet Fullmer, I think other than the Graziano trilogy Zale really didn't accomplish that much. Maybe I am just ignorant on Zale.

Hagler and Monzon both are too much for Fullmer; each can off set his strength and have better skill sets.

If Hagler can make Fullmer lead he counters him to an easy decision, maybe TKO.

Monzon (at any age) puts Fullmer to sleep with his jab (i.e. makes him inactive, not KOed) and crosses his right enough to swell Fullmer's face, but Fullmer doesn't fold the way many others did; Typical Monzon, he never lets a fight break out; boring, dominating Monzon, Fullmer can't change that (maybe no MW could). A UD for Monzon, even over 15.**

** Late in his career, Monzon had cut down from four to three packs a day; one less pack of cigarettes a day, he was ready to go 20 rounds; he was prime right to the end. He was also a fornicating freak.

[elmersalsa]

Gene Fullmer surely fought THE VERY BEST of his era. He was the last great white American boxer in my view. He could really tangle with anybody. I imagine if he fights guys like Carlos Monzon, Marvelous, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran at middleweight. It would be fun to watch.

How about The Cyclone versus these guys?:
Iran Barkley
Nigel Benn
Vito Antuofermo
Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Jake LaMotta

OK some predictions:

He would be able to handle Hearns' right hand long enough to out muscle him, Fullmer by TKO middle rounds.
Duran is too small, Fullmer bullies him to a UD W.
He would take Barkley apart; Fullmer could box with SRR; TKO.
Antuofermo is stopped in six rounds too, TKO.
Don't know Benn well enough to have an opinion.
Valdez. You got to give this one to Fullmer; 2-1-1 against Robinson; Valdez was great but does he bring more to the fight than SRR did?
LaMotta, I think Fullmer prevails by decision. Frustrating, maybe even boring fight. Fullmer by SD.
I would like to watch Graziano fight live, anyone, just once; Graziano could hurt Fullmer with his right hands, but if he doesn't land them early he gets taken to school and stopped inside of six rounds.
No real opinion on Zale; if I had to bet, I'd bet Fullmer, I think other than the Graziano trilogy Zale really didn't accomplish that much. Maybe I am just ignorant on Zale.

Hagler and Monzon both are too much for Fullmer; each can off set his strength and have better skill sets.

If Hagler can make Fullmer lead he counters him to an easy decision, maybe TKO.

Monzon (at any age) puts Fullmer to sleep with his jab (i.e. makes him inactive, not KOed) and crosses his right enough to swell Fullmer's face, but Fullmer doesn't fold the way many others did; Typical Monzon, he never lets a fight break out; boring, dominating Monzon, Fullmer can't change that (maybe no MW could). A UD for Monzon, even over 15.**

** Late in his career, Monzon had cut down from four to three packs a day; one less pack of cigarettes a day, he was ready to go 20 rounds; he was prime right to the end. He was also a effing freak.

These predictions are right on the money in my view. Duran would be too small. We forgot that Gene also had fast hands for a rugged and tough in-your-face fighter. And also at middleweight, he had much more stamina than the Hands of Stone even if Duran comes well prepared for the Fight. I think Duran loses because of weight discrepancy than pure skill. It's really hard to beat a tough and well conditioned fighter like Fullmer. Ask Benny "Kid" Paret. I believe also that Fullmer could pull a TKO in late rounds against a tiring and wilting Hands of Stone. About in round 13th or 14th, or win by a close decision.

I also agree that with Tommy Hearns, he will have his hands full at the beginning. But, I believe that the longer the fight, the better for Fullmer. He would have been pressuring Tommy, but he would have had to take Tommy's big bombs a la Marvelous. And I think he could take Tommy's big bombs. Once he is inside, it would be all Gene Fullmer!

Gene Fullmer vs Carlos Monzon would have been interesting, too. And like you have said, it would have been a boring fight and clear dominion by King Carlos. I don't think that The Cyclone would be able to rough up Monzon. Monzon was too methodical. A Very calculative boxer. A thinking man's fighter. Monzon by decision for me. I will have my other thoughts in the other mythical bouts.

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Gene Fullmer fight #3 was a draw, but I saw Robinson winning. Does anyone have seen that fight?

[elmersalsa]

Gene Fullmer surely fought THE VERY BEST of his era. He was the last great white American boxer in my view. He could really tangle with anybody. I imagine if he fights guys like Carlos Monzon, Marvelous, Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran at middleweight. It would be fun to watch.

How about The Cyclone versus these guys?:
Iran Barkley
Nigel Benn
Vito Antuofermo
Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez
Tony Zale
Rocky Graziano
Jake LaMotta

OK some predictions:

He would be able to handle Hearns' right hand long enough to out muscle him, Fullmer by TKO middle rounds.
Duran is too small, Fullmer bullies him to a UD W.
He would take Barkley apart; Fullmer could box with SRR; TKO.
Antuofermo is stopped in six rounds too, TKO.
Don't know Benn well enough to have an opinion.
Valdez. You got to give this one to Fullmer; 2-1-1 against Robinson; Valdez was great but does he bring more to the fight than SRR did?
LaMotta, I think Fullmer prevails by decision. Frustrating, maybe even boring fight. Fullmer by SD.
I would like to watch Graziano fight live, anyone, just once; Graziano could hurt Fullmer with his right hands, but if he doesn't land them early he gets taken to school and stopped inside of six rounds.
No real opinion on Zale; if I had to bet, I'd bet Fullmer, I think other than the Graziano trilogy Zale really didn't accomplish that much. Maybe I am just ignorant on Zale.

Hagler and Monzon both are too much for Fullmer; each can off set his strength and have better skill sets.

If Hagler can make Fullmer lead he counters him to an easy decision, maybe TKO.

Monzon (at any age) puts Fullmer to sleep with his jab (i.e. makes him inactive, not KOed) and crosses his right enough to swell Fullmer's face, but Fullmer doesn't fold the way many others did; Typical Monzon, he never lets a fight break out; boring, dominating Monzon, Fullmer can't change that (maybe no MW could). A UD for Monzon, even over 15.**

** Late in his career, Monzon had cut down from four to three packs a day; one less pack of cigarettes a day, he was ready to go 20 rounds; he was prime right to the end. He was also a effing freak.

I think also that Marvelous beats Gene. He had a much more variety of punches. Plus, he is as well conditioned as Fullmer.

Gene beats Rocky Graziano 10 out of 10. Gene was in a different class.

Rocky Valdez would be a tough fight for Gene, but The Cyclone underrated speed is the key. He would be stronger in the latter rounds, too.

I would pick Jake LaMotta over Gene in a thrilling contest by decision.

Gene Fullmer over Iran Barkley by decision, too.

Gene Fullmer vs Nigel Benn....Fullmer wins. I just can't see anything that Benn brings to the table to say he was better than Fullmer.

Gene Fullmer anhiliates Vito Antuofermo by TKO.

[elmersalsa]

I am watching Gene Fullmer vs Sugar Ray Robinson fight #4

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray Robinson's third fight with Gene Fullmer was a great scrap. It was Robinson's last great performance of his illustrious career. I think he won that fight.

But fight #4 with the Cyclone was another story. Fullmer clearly dominated Sugar Ray. He roughed Robinson up with constant pressure and with some illegal blows using the arms and elbows and some telling rabbit punches. It looked like Sugar Ray could not keep up with the pace. Maybe it was age and wear and tear. He fought in spurts here and there. Not enough to keep Fullmer off him. In round 3 he was rocked and in trouble. Fullmer attacked him with a barrage of lefts and rights. Sugar Ray was ready to go. I didn't see Fullmer lose a single round after the 5th. By the time that Fullmer lost a round, it was the 13th, but he had the fight secured. I scored the fight 146-142 in favor of Fullmer. He became the second boxer ever to beat Sugar Ray Robinson twice.

[APerno]

Sugar Ray Robinson's third fight with Gene Fullmer was a great scrap. It was Robinson's last great performance of his illustrious career. I think he won that fight.

But fight #4 with the Cyclone was another story. Fullmer clearly dominated Sugar Ray. He roughed Robinson up with constant pressure and with some illegal blows using the arms and elbows and some telling rabbit punches. It looked like Sugar Ray could not keep up with the pace. Maybe it was age and wear and tear. He fought in spurts here and there. Not enough to keep Fullmer off him. In round 3 he was rocked and in trouble. Fullmer attacked him with a barrage of lefts and rights. Sugar Ray was ready to go. I didn't see Fullmer lose a single round after the 5th. By the time that Fullmer lost a round, it was the 13th, but he had the fight secured. I scored the fight 146-142 in favor of Fullmer. He became the second boxer ever to beat Sugar Ray Robinson twice.

Paul Pender -- You made me go look!