BoxRec Forum HW TOP 15 Ranking - Chisora, Whyte, Ajagba

[gilgamesh]

I heard that it could take up to a year. Maybe in this case, it'll happen sooner. I'm still stunned.

A year to test a b sample? Mind blowing

Why would it even take a week?

[oogiebe]

A year to test a b sample? Mind blowing

Why would it even take a week?

I confused the "B" sample testing with the timeline for appeal. My bad. I read up on it and the "B" sample should be tested within a week of the first failure.

[Heretic]

Whyte no change

If he gets nailed with the drugs as he probably will then we kick him out of the list.

Rivas to #10

Proved that he belongs on the list. Would probably beat most ranked below him. Move him over the overrated Kownacki.

Chisora to #11. (between Kownacki#12 and rivas#10.)

Chisora is not easy win for anyone. He deserves hes spot on the rankings.

Ajagba to stay out.

He does not have the wins to enter yet.

Rest to stay out...

[Heretic]

I would like to rank Whyte over Wilder. Problem is people voted AJ and Ruiz too low the last time so that is not possible.

[dagilechia]

The voting should end long time ago but this time it lasts longer because i have no enough time until last week and because of the Whyte's doping issue so your vote will count. Btw isn't Whyte's cheating already 100% confirmed?

[joshj909]

The voting should end long time ago but this time it lasts longer because i have no enough time until last week and because of the Whyte's doping issue so your vote will count. Btw isn't Whyte's cheating already 100% confirmed?

It's 100% clear that he failed a test but not 100% clear that this will involve a ban or punishment. It's all strangely quiet and up in the air at the moment.

[Finkel]

I would like to rank Whyte over Wilder. Problem is people voted AJ and Ruiz too low the last time so that is not possible.

Think that is a bit unfair on Wilder. Though Ortiz is his best win, that would still put him above Whyte for me.
But I agree Whyte's win should be recognized in the interim. Should it be clear he is banned, then he drops from the list. Until then:

#1 Fury - the man who beat the man, and also his draw against Wilder shows he is still the man to beat.
#2 Wilder - WBC champion, drew with Fury, still technically undefeated and has a solid win against Ortiz
#3 Ruiz - unified champion, and his win over Joshua should be respected. However he needs to defend that title.
#4 Whyte - his loss to Joshua was a long time ago, and I think his resume should be recognized
#5 Joshua - The style of his loss to Ruiz moves him below Whyte for me.

The winner of Ruiz v Joshua II should take #2 with the loser taking #5.

[dagilechia]

I will try to cast votes before Kownacki's fight, but i am not sure that i will do that due to limited time and phone only (i hate to use phones)

[joshj909]

I would like to rank Whyte over Wilder. Problem is people voted AJ and Ruiz too low the last time so that is not possible.

Think that is a bit unfair on Wilder. Though Ortiz is his best win, that would still put him above Whyte for me.

Whyte's most recent win (Rivas) shares a best win with Ortiz. If Ortiz was better then he should go out and beat better opponents than Jennings. Until then, a victory over Rivas and Ortiz should be on a par.

[Finkel]

Think that is a bit unfair on Wilder. Though Ortiz is his best win, that would still put him above Whyte for me.

Whyte's most recent win (Rivas) shares a best win with Ortiz. If Ortiz was better then he should go out and beat better opponents than Jennings. Until then, a victory over Rivas and Ortiz should be on a par.

Can't argue with that

[Lennox]

Ajaba moved from 34 to 31


www.premierboxingorganisation.com/heavyweight-200

[Belanio]

Is this still open?

Whyte remains at #5.
Chisora to #12.
All others unranked.

[conan_the_cribber]

Just helping out dagilechia.......here are the legitimate votes....

Code: Select all

Poster				Chis		Wht		Riva		Aja		Comment
dagilechia			12		5		13		Un		-
joshj909			14		2		?		15		Riva not mentioned
oogiebe.....			13		5		11		Un		No changes needed. 
giglamesh			?		?		?		?		Invalid format
tiny_acres			13		5		Un		Un		Generally no change
JonnyKupfer.....		12		7		13		Un		-
ironbeard			13		5		11		Un		Unchanged
Contendeh			?		?		?		?		Invalid format
DrDuke				11		?		14		15		Other fighters e.g. Breazdale not relevant.
p4pound 			?		?		Un		14		Other fighters not relevant
SportsRatings...		13		5		14		15		Other re-ranking comments ignored
PukkaCheese......		?		?		?		?		Invalid format
Lennox				?		?		?		Un		Only aja mentioned.
 conan_the_c....		12		5		11		Un		-
 Ilya Muromets...		13		5		11		Un		Concurring with Professor Oogie Boogie
 Finkel				14		2		?		15		Concurring with Josh
 HyacinthusT......		11		5		10		Un		At last a clear answer again.....
 morm				?		?		?		?		Invalid format
 Deleted_Scen...		13		5		11		Un		-
 margaret that..		11		5		12		Un		-
 morm (revised).........	13		5		11		15		Lost in some server change
 Tarkus				12		5		14		Un		-
 Heretic...			11		5		10		Un		-
 Belanio 			12		5		Un		Un		Others remain unranked
 

[conan_the_cribber]

This, according to my understanding would result in the following....

First the easy stuff

Chisora average = 12,39 (18 valid votes).

Ajagba (overwhelmingly voted for unranked).

Whyte average = 4,76 (17 valid votes).

Now the more difficult part of Rivas. Some voters gave him a number, which is easy to average out. Other voters cast legit votes saying he should be unranked, which is hard to average out. I approached it like this. If a voter said unranked, then I changed that to a rank of 16 i.e. out of the top 15. That way, if the boxer Joe Tomato was up for a vote if nine people voted for Tomato to be 15 and ten voted for him to be unranked, then Tomato would have an average slightly higher than 15.5 and would then remain unranked. Using this approach.

Rivas (with unranked = 16) Average = 12.38 (16 votes).

BTW - Rivas (ignoring unranked votes) Average = 11,86. I consider this illegitimate though as it ignores data.

Using unranked = 16, Rivas beats Chisora by 1/100th of a point 12.38 vs 12.39

This would result in the following order.

1. Fury
2. Wilder
3. Ruiz
4. Joshua
5. Whyte (4,76 rounds to 5)
6. Potvekin
7. Ortez
8. Pulev
9. Parker
10. Kownacki
11. Hrgovic (moves up because Rivas moves down.)
12. Rivas (by a whisker)
13. Chisora (stays behind Rivas)
14. Kabayel
15. Breazdale

Note on Hrgovic moving up. Previously he was ranked 12. I interpret this as 12.0. As 12.0 is better than 12.0 is better than both the 12.38 or 12.39 of Chisora and Rivas, he should be ranked higher.

As this is dagliachia's baby, he has the final say on this new ranking. Anyone else is welcome to make a constructive comment. But if you just want to bitch about something, then please consider I just spent 90 minutes tabulating and thinking about this for the benefit of the forum community.

[conan_the_cribber]

And the funny thing is, we might just drop Whyte for being hot. Idiot.

[conan_the_cribber]

No more votes now on this as obviously, you could tinker with the results based on the information in the previous long post.

[Heretic]

Good job with the rankings Conan

Few minor nitpicks.

Counting the average as boxer number 12 having average of 12 and comparing it to voted average leads to situation where 9 votes of 12 and one vote of 13 will lead boxer going to rank 13 instead of 12 as it should. It works fine when voting people down on the list but not when voting them up.

Another minor thing is counting out as 16 leads to out vote having quite small power. It can lead to votes like 10 out votes being over run by 8 votes that have the boxer inside top 10 for example. Maybe the out votes should be a simple majority call?

I hope this ranking stays alive... It is one of the most interesting things on current scene

[dagilechia]

No more votes now on this as obviously, you could tinker with the results based on the information in the previous long post.

Thanks Conan, i appreciate your help a lot but you must know that it's median vote that matters, not average. anyway, i am back now, this ranking will stay alive. I was in Denmark then i was in Spain, now i was travelling a lot across Poland, so i hadn't enough time and taking care of this ranking on phone is a nightmare for me as i use internet almost exclusively on computer.

I will post the current ranking and start the voting on Kownacki vs Arreola in next 10-20 minutes.

[dagilechia]

The voting is over.

Dereck Chisora moves to #12, Dillian Whyte stays at #5, Óscar Rivas remains at #11, the rest stays unranked.

Current Ranking

1. Tyson Fury - 28(20) 0 1 - next fight: 14.09.2019 vs Otto Wallin - 20(13) 0 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #48)

2. Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - next fight: 09.11.2019 vs Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - (#7)

3. Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - next fight: 07.12.2019 vs Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - (#4)

4. Anthony Joshua - 22(21) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 07.12.2019 vs Andy Ruiz Jr - 33(22) 1(0) 0 - (#3)

5. Dillian Whyte - 26(18) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Alexander Povetkin - 34(24) 2(1) 0 - next fight: 31.08.2019 vs Hughie Fury - 23(13) 2(0) 0 - (unranked, BoxRec's #21)

7. Luis Ortiz - 31(26) 1(1) 0 - next fight: 09.11.2019 vs Deontay Wilder - 41(40) 0 1 - (#2)

8. Kubrat Pulev - 27(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Joseph Parker - 26(20) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Adam Kownacki - 20(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Óscar Rivas - 26(18) 1(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Dereck Chisora - 31(22) 9(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Filip Hrgović - 8(6) 0 0 - next fight: 24.08.2019 vs Mario Heredia - 16(13) 6(5) 1 - (unranked, BoxRec's #49)

14. Agit Kabayel - 19(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Dominic Breazeale - 20(18) 2(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

[dagilechia]

Worth of mention fights:

Sergey Kuzmin - 15(11) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #32) vs Michael Hunter - 17(12) 1(0) 0 - (BoxRec's #38) - 13.09.2019 - V
Oleksandr Usyk - 16(12) 0 0 - (BoxRec's #1 at CW) vs Carlos Takam - 36(28) 5(3) 1 - (BoxRec's #26) - TBA - V

Important note: not all of those fights will deserve the voting topic. This is just a list of interesting HW fights, just to not to miss them. The fights marked by ''V'' will most likely get the voting thread, those with ''X'' will most likely not.

[dagilechia]

I hope this ranking stays alive... It is one of the most interesting things on current scene

Thanks, nice to hear that... I really had no time recently, now i am going to Greece, when i will be back everything will be maintained as it was before, this will stay alive for sure, and i hope that it will stay alive for years

[greg]

..no such thing as perfect rankings, what I see here though makes a lot of sense...have a great time in Greece, Dag!

[conan_the_cribber]

No more votes now on this as obviously, you could tinker with the results based on the information in the previous long post.

Thanks Conan, i appreciate your help a lot but you must know that it's median vote that matters, not average. anyway, i am back now, this ranking will stay alive. I was in Denmark then i was in Spain, now i was travelling a lot across Poland, so i hadn't enough time and taking care of this ranking on phone is a nightmare for me as i use internet almost exclusively on computer.

I will post the current ranking and start the voting on Kownacki vs Arreola in next 10-20 minutes.

No problem dagi, median is a better idea anyhow. Glad to help.

[dagilechia]

..no such thing as perfect rankings, what I see here though makes a lot of sense...have a great time in Greece, Dag!