UNBELEIVABLE...Toney vs Wlad for Nov

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 01 Jun 2006, 03:52

Lefthookhappy19 wrote:Im tellin you guys, Toney has NO Chance. 100%. I sure hope the bookies are as deluded as some of you.

Toney would never be able to even get there. But lets say he does get on the inside? Wlad will be able to out muscle and tie him up at will, so it won't matter. This is Toney's retirement fight. Their's hardly a guy in history who would be a worse matchup for a heavyweight Toney. Chris Byrd is a good few inches taller than James, and was actually in decent shape. Byrd fought Wlad before, he knew what to expect and what to plan for. He still got smoked.

When you guys see them facing up you will release Toney never really had a shot at this. Expect Wlad to REALLY push for this fight.

PS: Toney won't take Wlad punches for long despite his chin. Wlad hits like a truck. Toneys face will be a mess. And Toneys stamina is shit. After every burst of activity he has to take a rest.

Hands up who was ever seen a fighter successfully tie up Toney on the inside? If Wlad even tries that will be the greatest gift he could award Fatboy.

The Byrd fight flattered him, he may have been a champ but i think he was the only opponent that 2006 Wlad could put in a confident, dominant perfomance against.

Toney clearly doesn't have true HW power but unleashing stinging, accurate 3 punch combos on the inside will soon have that familar slack jawed deeply worried expression appearing on Wlad's face soon enough.

Toney will shoulder roll and counter accurately every time Wlad steps in. The only concern from the fans point of view is that Manny could well tell Wlad to use the jab almost exclusively and don't step in or commit under any circumstances.

I get the feeling though that Toney is just looking for paydays now and doesn't care too much about the result. He was so mellow and complimentary after the draw with Rahman it told me he was just happy to get the work and there was nothing real about all the pre-fight talk.

Some American writer said he could see Toney realising that he needs to be in good shape for this one and continually injuring himself (into retirement) trying to attain it. I could quite easily see that happening.

Overall this is a genuine 50:50 match against opposites which i would be intrigued to watch. An ageing, too small, out of shape boxing genius/natural fighter and a huge athlete in his physical prime with all the physical tools but none of the natural ability or mental fortitude.

Now i must leave for the airport. Can't keep Corrales & Castillo waiting!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Jun 2006, 09:30

Yes this is all true, Wlad's huge steriod ridden bulk coupled with his extreme tension in the ring means he struggles when forced to work hard.

However, if he sticks to a gameplan, he could keep Toney where he cannot be effective, and as Toney will need to get close to work effectively, it's going to allow him plenty of free shots. Toney will have to make him miss a lot to negate that, and although that is possible, Wlad does have a good stick with enough power to keep a much smaller man on the outside.

d1mak · Post by **d1mak** » 02 Jun 2006, 10:34

[quote="topper123] If Toney can get inside then a stands a chance of winning, Wlad would have to keep Toney off with his long range boxing something he can do, as we've seen in previous fights[/quote]
It is actually a big "if". If Toney will get past that jab, Wlad will just hang himself on Toney. The reason he won all latest fights that he didn't let anyone get close to him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 02 Jun 2006, 11:52

Well Toney won't be a sitting duck to Wlad's piston punches like Byrd was.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 02 Jun 2006, 12:40

Max Molyneux wrote:Well Toney won't be a sitting duck to Wlad's piston punches like Byrd was.

How so? Toney rolls with punches a bit but Byrd has much quicker feet than Toney. I think it will play out much the same way.

I'll give anybody 2 to 1 odds if they wanna bet on Toney. i.e. bet £100 if Toney wins I give you £200 if Wlad wins I get your £100. Any takers?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 02 Jun 2006, 12:50

nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Well Toney won't be a sitting duck to Wlad's piston punches like Byrd was.
How so? Toney rolls with punches a bit but Byrd has much quicker feet than Toney. I think it will play out much the same way.

I'll give anybody 2 to 1 odds if they wanna bet on Toney. i.e. bet £100 if Toney wins I give you £200 if Wlad wins I get your £100. Any takers?

Toney isn't bothered with size as much as Byrd is.

He'd try to slip them unlike Byrd would either just like when he was just pawing at Wlad.

Not saying he'd win though but he'd be less a sitting duck than Byrd.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 02 Jun 2006, 13:16

Max Molyneux wrote:
nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Well Toney won't be a sitting duck to Wlad's piston punches like Byrd was.
How so? Toney rolls with punches a bit but Byrd has much quicker feet than Toney. I think it will play out much the same way.

I'll give anybody 2 to 1 odds if they wanna bet on Toney. i.e. bet £100 if Toney wins I give you £200 if Wlad wins I get your £100. Any takers?
Toney isn't bothered with size as much as Byrd is.

He'd try to slip them unlike Byrd would either just like when he was just pawing at Wlad.

Not saying he'd win though but he'd be less a sitting duck than Byrd.

I really dont see how. Toney plods on his feet which means he'll be slow closing the distance. Not bothered with size? Who has he foughts who's as big and fights as big as Klitschko? Rahman does not use his height and size like Wlad does. Toney has no chance.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 03 Jun 2006, 05:21

nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
nickd wrote: How so? Toney rolls with punches a bit but Byrd has much quicker feet than Toney. I think it will play out much the same way.

I'll give anybody 2 to 1 odds if they wanna bet on Toney. i.e. bet £100 if Toney wins I give you £200 if Wlad wins I get your £100. Any takers?
Toney isn't bothered with size as much as Byrd is.

He'd try to slip them unlike Byrd would either just like when he was just pawing at Wlad.

Not saying he'd win though but he'd be less a sitting duck than Byrd.
I really dont see how. Toney plods on his feet which means he'll be slow closing the distance. Not bothered with size? Who has he foughts who's as big and fights as big as Klitschko? Rahman does not use his height and size like Wlad does. Toney has no chance.

He plods on his feet but he slips and ducks unlike Byrd who relied on speed.

Why should fighting someone as big as Wlad bother him as there both over 200lbs? The height could be awkward but thats what the inside is for.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 03 Jun 2006, 05:31

In fairness, Byrd didn't really try and avoid Wlad that's why he got battered. However, last time he tried to avoid Wlad, and got battered anyway, so I guess he figured he would try and do something different. Byrd's style relied on speed and relfexes, and he had been on the slide for some time.

With the right game plan, Wlad should win this one easy, body shots and tieing Toney up on the inside and leaning all over him.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:27

I like JT but he blew his big shot v Rahman, and whether or not he comes in shape or FAT hes 38 & doesnt possess a big punch. Wlad will beat him up pretty easily and allow boxing to move on without one of its more entertaining characters.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 05 Jun 2006, 22:06

Apparently Toney has turned down a $1.5 mill offer to fight Wlad. I don't think he can expect to get much more than that TBH, but we shall see.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jun 2006, 05:38

That's a pretty piss poor offer. £750k for heavyweight title fight against Wlad K? That's a bollocks offer and they know it. It's a pretty big fight on paper, Wlad still has a pretty good following, and Toney is pure box office.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 06 Jun 2006, 07:11

Disgracful offer i think, Toney got about 3-4 mil for fighting Rahman. Maybe Wlad's managment are a little worried about this fight because surely they would make a lot of cash even if they paid him 3 mil.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jun 2006, 07:17

Yes, sounds to me like a token offer they know he will turn down. I reckon that Manny knows that Toney has the potential to be a difficult opponent, and so made sure the offer was derisory.

Thing is, right now, what are Toney's other options? A rematch with Rahman wouldn't sell like hotcakes.

Valuev?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jun 2006, 08:19

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, sounds to me like a token offer they know he will turn down. I reckon that Manny knows that Toney has the potential to be a difficult opponent, and so made sure the offer was derisory.

Thing is, right now, what are Toney's other options? A rematch with Rahman wouldn't sell like hotcakes.

Valuev?

Not sure if he is allowed to face Valuev - WBA suspension and everything?

As you mentioned Valuev, I'll digress slightly - but I have recently got hold of Tye Fields vs Bruce Seldon. Whilst Bruce is nothing short of a disgrace to boxing, yes in the years of inactivity he hasn't grown any balls (just a belly) - I have to say that Fields is improving.

Fields vs Valuev has got to happen, hasn't it?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 06 Jun 2006, 09:09

Yeah, I'd have thought so too, it's a good fight for TV, especially in Germany where they could get huge live gates and prime time TV exposure. Toney is the sort who would most likely travel to germany, for the pleasure of whupping his man on home turf.

jab · Post by **jab** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:39

stujones wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, sounds to me like a token offer they know he will turn down. I reckon that Manny knows that Toney has the potential to be a difficult opponent, and so made sure the offer was derisory.

Thing is, right now, what are Toney's other options? A rematch with Rahman wouldn't sell like hotcakes.

Valuev?
Not sure if he is allowed to face Valuev - WBA suspension and everything?

As you mentioned Valuev, I'll digress slightly - but I have recently got hold of Tye Fields vs Bruce Seldon. Whilst Bruce is nothing short of a disgrace to boxing, yes in the years of inactivity he hasn't grown any balls (just a belly) - I have to say that Fields is improving.

Fields vs Valuev has got to happen, hasn't it?

WBA is ranking Toney as their number 3 right now. So if they were still holding to that suspension, why rank Toney?

Yes, Valuev is an option for Toney. This has got to be the biggest size difference ever in a heavyweight championship fight. Right? Toney would give away about 15`` in height and 9`` in reach to Valuev, and about 85lbs.

This fight would sell big in Germany, with Toneys big mouth and antics, plus the freak show factor based on their huge size difference.

However, Valuev cant even offer the 1.5 million that Toney turned down for fighting Wlad. So would Toney fight for less than that for a crack at the WBA belt?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:47

Hasn't Donald King got options on Valuev now? I think Valuev's intrigue factor makes him a bigger box office star stateside than Wlad. According to Dan Raphael on the Rahman vs Toney card he gets inundated with emails asking "when is Valuev going to be on US TV".

It would be like Rocky, the giant from Russia making his US debut vs an all time great master boxer but past his prime.

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:52

Style wise Wlad tames Toney easily - if the fight happens if Wlad is better odds than 1/3 then I will go large on him - Wlad is gunshy but has a ramrod jab when he isn't scared of the man he is fighting. I genuinely think Toney is about a 9/1 shot.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Jun 2006, 18:48

How much did Byrd get to fight Wlad?

After the Ruiz incident, then losing to Rahman in a crap fight, he doesn't train seriously so why does he still deserve huge paydays?

I cannot see him getting more than 3mill for a fight with Wlad.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Jun 2006, 18:57

lvlarc_uk wrote:How much did Byrd get to fight Wlad?

After the Ruiz incident, then losing to Rahman in a crap fight, he doesn't train seriously so why does he still deserve huge paydays?

I cannot see him getting more than 3mill for a fight with Wlad.

Didn't lose to Rahman though, which as petty as it may sound, is critical as to why I (did) applaud Wlad for at least trying to get this fight.

A draw in a WBC title fight leaves an impression that fatty Toney is still the best non title holder Heavyweight out there... Him or Brewester.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 06 Jun 2006, 20:35

True, but in my eyes Rahman deserved the win. I was gutted too as I was cheering on Toney but he just wasn't doing enough to win rounds.

I'd prefer to see Wlad - Brewster II more than Toney. Brewster actually brings good workrate & power, something needed to beat Klitschko.

In fact, I think Brewster & Toney should box off, winner faces Wlad.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 06 Jun 2006, 20:40

Brewster is going to be out for some time with the detached retina from his last fight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Jun 2006, 04:39

I kind of scored Toney and Rahman barely to Toney but Imight of scored one round wrong so I agree with the draw too. It was close and Toney was making Rahman miss and landing cleaner.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Jun 2006, 04:44

jamesmcdonnell wrote:That's a pretty piss poor offer. £750k for heavyweight title fight against Wlad K? That's a bollocks offer and they know it. It's a pretty big fight on paper, Wlad still has a pretty good following, and Toney is pure box office.

even before the offer, Goossen made it clear that they wanted a Rahman rematch. no amount of money can spur toney to get himself in shape, so regardless of offers high or low - he wouldn't risk humiliation against WK