Won the European title and managed to win a world title. IBF was lightly regarded at the time I believe, but he made a defence too.
According to his BoxRec page..
He shot FW, who was his manager at the time.. It reads:
Frank Wrrn, Marsh's ex-manager, was shot twice in the chest outside the Broadway Theatre in London on November 30, 1989. The shooter was wearing a coat with a hood, and he had a scarf or mask covering the lower part of his face. The gunman was tackled by a business associate of Warren's, but he broke free and fled. A bullet narrowly missed Warren's heart, but he was able to fully recover.
Marsh was charged with attempted murder and spent ten months in jail awaiting trial. He was found not guilty on November 7, 1990.
The prosecution had argued that a libel suit filed against Marsh by Warren was the motive for the shooting.
In January 1989, Marsh appeared on a British television show and said Warren had encouraged him to sign a contract to defend his title even though Warren knew he had been diagnosed as an epileptic. Warren denied the allegation and sued Marsh for libel. Warren lost the case on October 30, 1992.
Says he retired after his last bout, at the age of 29 due to epilepsy.
I liked Terry Marsh as he seemed a good solid working fighter, things just seemed to awry for him.
Further reading is allegedly's 2003 autobiography and Marsh's autobiography Undefeated and also Lords of the Ring: Marsh, Warren and the Business of Boxing which if you do a search around can get cheaper than displayed on some sites.
I liked Terry Marsh as he seemed a good solid working fighter, things just seemed to awry for him.
Further reading is allegedly's 2003 autobiography and Marsh's autobiography Undefeated and also Lords of the Ring: Marsh, Warren and the Business of Boxing which if you do a search around can get cheaper than displayed on some sites.
Terry was a brilliant amateur and a brilliant pro and he had much more to offer until the relationship with his manager and promoter totally broke down and cost him his pro career. The fact remains, Terry never lost a pro fight and won the IBF light-welterweight title against the odds with a resounding stoppage of Joe Louis Manley, who was never in the hunt. Terry possessed an iron will, outstanding fitness and a brilliant boxing brain. He could adapt his style to beat anyone.
scribbs1 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 07:00
Further reading is allegedly's 2003 autobiography and Marsh's autobiography Undefeated and also Lords of the Ring: Marsh, Warren and the Business of Boxing which if you do a search around can get cheaper than displayed on some sites.
Thanks for that.
Should be Warren's autobiography but comes out as alledgely even though when tried to edit said Warren
Sometimes difficult to tell when reading if someone is being sarcastic or not but if genuine then you're welcome
scribbs1 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 07:00
Further reading is allegedly's 2003 autobiography and Marsh's autobiography Undefeated and also Lords of the Ring: Marsh, Warren and the Business of Boxing which if you do a search around can get cheaper than displayed on some sites.
Thanks for that.
Should be Warren's autobiography but comes out as alledgely even though when tried to edit said Warren
Sometimes difficult to tell when reading if someone is being sarcastic or not but if genuine then you're welcome
No, I meant it. I only came across Terry a few days ago. Read a bit about him.. Found it interesting.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 10:27
No, I meant it. I only came across Terry a few days ago. Read a bit about him.. Found it interesting.
You reckon he shot FW?
Not sure, sometimes there is no smoke without fire but gut feeling is he probably involved although someone else did firing but he was not guilty in court. Thing is Warren probably had a few enemies and possible one took opportunity then may have been devious in deflecting onto Marsh - all conjecture really
To be honest you have peaked my interest and am gonna get all 3 books I mentioned and do some reading up and peruse links and vid posted earlier when have a bit more time
scribbs1 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018, 11:16
Not sure, sometimes there is no smoke without fire but gut feeling is he probably involved although someone else did firing but he was not guilty in court. Thing is Warren probably had a few enemies and possible one took opportunity then may have been devious in deflecting onto Marsh - all conjecture really
To be honest you have peaked my interest and am gonna get all 3 books I mentioned and do some reading up and peruse links and vid posted earlier when have a bit more time
Marsh was also an ex Royal Marine 'Bootneck' Commando as well............so fitness, work ethic and a desire to win/overcome the odds had a rock-solid, professional grounding.
Manley got served-up a proper bad deal......a hard man RM, a three-time ABA Champ and all away from home!
The title fight with Manley was interesting for all sorts of reasons.......Fwank was at this juncture the new, pushy kid on the block aggressively challenging the established London fight cartel of Jarvis Astaire, Mickey Duff and Terry Lawless.
The Marsh-Manley fight in the infamous Big Top was both a marketing success and a neccesity.......Fwank got a lot of useful PR with his huge 'fight in a tent' which was different and delivered a big event without having access to a major, central London venue which the cartel had effectively tied-up.
The story goes that Marsh had signed for a defence for terrible money and got a lot more by selling his story to The Sun 2 days before the fight saying he had to retire with epilepsy.
His promoter FW knew nothing about this and of course ruined the show with the promoter taking a financial hit.
Apparently Marsh felt that with his payoff from the Sun and that he had started doing the commentary on the satellite to shows, this would be the money to keep him comfortable.
When Marsh turned up to commentate on his next show he was denied entry and been replaced by Barry McGuigan. That night Marsh snuck in disguised as Father Christmas, but was seen and got a right hiding from the security.
It seems that FW had got him blackballed and this was one of the main motives given by the police when he was accused of shooting him.
One of Marsh's main defences was that as a trained marine he would have killed FW if it had have been him. Marsh miraculously grew out of his epilepsy!
Coco wrote: ↑04 Sep 2018, 05:01
The story goes that Marsh had signed for a defence for terrible money and got a lot more by selling his story to The Sun 2 days before the fight saying he had to retire with epilepsy.
His promoter FW knew nothing about this and of course ruined the show with the promoter taking a financial hit.
Apparently Marsh felt that with his payoff from the Sun and that he had started doing the commentary on the satellite to shows, this would be the money to keep him comfortable.
When Marsh turned up to commentate on his next show he was denied entry and been replaced by Barry McGuigan. That night Marsh snuck in disguised as Father Christmas, but was seen and got a right hiding from the security.
It seems that FW had got him blackballed and this was one of the main motives given by the police when he was accused of shooting him.
One of Marsh's main defences was that as a trained marine he would have killed FW if it had have been him. Marsh miraculously grew out of his epilepsy!
Coco wrote: ↑04 Sep 2018, 05:01
The story goes that Marsh had signed for a defence for terrible money and got a lot more by selling his story to The Sun 2 days before the fight saying he had to retire with epilepsy.
His promoter FW knew nothing about this and of course ruined the show with the promoter taking a financial hit.
Apparently Marsh felt that with his payoff from the Sun and that he had started doing the commentary on the satellite to shows, this would be the money to keep him comfortable.
When Marsh turned up to commentate on his next show he was denied entry and been replaced by Barry McGuigan. That night Marsh snuck in disguised as Father Christmas, but was seen and got a right hiding from the security.
It seems that FW had got him blackballed and this was one of the main motives given by the police when he was accused of shooting him.
One of Marsh's main defences was that as a trained marine he would have killed FW if it had have been him. Marsh miraculously grew out of his epilepsy!
some of that I had heard before, but some not, cheers mate
banjo wrote: ↑04 Sep 2018, 08:02
Didn't he become a firefighter at one point as well?
Yeah I think he was a fireman while he was boxing ,
I can't remember if he carried on while champion though, I know of another boxer that was a fireman and he was given an ultimatum when he won a title and got on TV more often that the fire service wouldn't let him box and be a fireman as they wanted to stop fireman having 2 jobs as many did and he was told if he left the fire service while he boxed he'll be allowed straight back in when stopped boxing but it took a few years and a couple of favours from the local mayor to get back in.
The Marsh story is unusual in quite a few ways. For a start have you ever seen someone win a world title and defend it so easily. I don’t mean to knock Terry, he was a great fighter but he didn’t punch that hard and quite a few of his fights on the way up were harder than his world title fights.
I saw both world title fights and I don’t think he lost a round in either of them. He even gave the challenger Kameda some free shots at his ribs, as if he were playing with him or something.
The Marsh story is unusual in quite a few ways. For a start have you ever seen someone win a world title and defend it so easily. I don’t mean to knock Terry, he was a great fighter but he didn’t punch that hard and quite a few of his fights on the way up were harder than his world title fights.
I saw both world title fights and I don’t think he lost a round in either of them. He even gave the challenger Kameda some free shots at his ribs, as if he were playing with him or something.
Interesting Noxy.
I certainly think that Manley and his team got Marsh all wrong in terms of sussing-out his boxing credentials, personal background and what they'd get on the night.......which was a raucous fight crowd in an unusual/intimidating environment.
Manley seemed to walk somewhat unwittingly into a hot place and against a top challenger. Considering that most US fighters of that era beat their British challengers fairly handily....it is perhaps understandable.
But the Kameda fight I remember differently........Marsh got a nasty cut and early, was bleeding heavily - and had to push for the stoppage as far as I can recall.
The Marsh story is unusual in quite a few ways. For a start have you ever seen someone win a world title and defend it so easily. I don’t mean to knock Terry, he was a great fighter but he didn’t punch that hard and quite a few of his fights on the way up were harder than his world title fights.
I saw both world title fights and I don’t think he lost a round in either of them. He even gave the challenger Kameda some free shots at his ribs, as if he were playing with him or something.
Interesting Noxy.
I certainly think that Manley and his team got Marsh all wrong in terms of sussing-out his boxing credentials, personal background and what they'd get on the night.......which was a raucous fight crowd in an unusual/intimidating environment.
Manley seemed to walk somewhat unwittingly into a hot place and against a top challenger. Considering that most US fighters of that era beat their British challengers fairly handily....it is perhaps understandable.
But the Kameda fight I remember differently........Marsh got a nasty cut and early, was bleeding heavily - and had to push for the stoppage as far as I can recall.
Yes, he did get cut. It was against the run of play though. Marsh was controlling the fight. He did have to force the issue though because of the cut. The weird thing about that was, he had a nasty cut and Kameda‘s only chance was to stop him. So what does Kameda do? He went to the body. That’s what I mean, the champion and challenger seemed so inept, at least at that level. They must have had something about them to be fighting for an IBF title. Maybe, as you say, Manley underestimated him and maybe Kameda had a bad camp or was weight drained or something.
Yes, he did get cut. It was against the run of play though. Marsh was controlling the fight. He did have to force the issue though because of the cut. The weird thing about that was, he had a nasty cut and Kameda‘s only chance was to stop him. So what does Kameda do? He went to the body. That’s what I mean, the champion and challenger seemed so inept, at least at that level. They must have had something about them to be fighting for an IBF title. Maybe, as you say, Manley underestimated him and maybe Kameda had a bad camp or was weight drained or something.
I definitely thought - even as a youngster - that the Manley camp did not entirely get that Marsh was a very tough man indeed and that they would be fighting in such a different, intimidating venue.
Marsh was actually quite a specimen and I am sure that I've read somewhere that Manley got off the plane - attended a first warm-up presser at a London hotel just to sell the fight - but took a real double-take at how big Marsh was and how he was already primed for the later weigh-in.
Despite Honeyghan's huge, upset win against Curry the year before......it is easy to forget that American champs fighter/promoterslargely viewed British challengers as good but credible paydays.
I know who shot him, too, and it isn't Terry but it is someone close to him and that's as far as I'll go. Terry, of course, was found not guilty of the crime at the Old Bailey in 1990 (upon which his mate and heavyweight Ned Rawlins shouted, "Three cheers for the jury!").
The verdict marked the end of a horribly acrimonious split between the fighter and his old manager. Marsh was, in fact, Mr Warren's first signing as a licensed manager and promoter back in 1981 and only turned pro after he lost out on the welterweight spot for the Moscow Olympics in 1980. (Marsh won the ABA title that year, beating Liverpool puncher Joey Frost en route, but was then ordered to box-off with Frost for the Moscow berth and refused.) It has to be said that Warren guided his fighter skilfully through the ranks from the start. There was an early draw with Lloyd Christie at Bloomsbury in an eight-rounder but Christie could give anyone a tussle and went on to lift the British light-welterweight title. Otherwise, it was easy for the clever and superfit Marsh and the first indication that he was a bit special came when he outclassed Vernon Vanriel for the Southern Area light-welterweight title at York Hall in 1983. He made Vanriel look as slow as a heavyweight as he nipped in and out with quick combinations throughout the 10-rounder and three fights later in September 1984, he did the same to perennial and defending British champion Clinton McKenzie in a thrilling 12-rounder at Shoreditch. McKenzie, who first won the British title in 1978, tried everything to get to the wiry challenger but Marsh wouldn't crack and poured it on down the stretch just to make sure.
All of a sudden, Terry looked the complete fighter and displayed more iron will a year later in Monaco, where he outworked and outmuscled Italy's Alessandro Scapecchi for the European title and he defended the belt twice in the build-up to the greatest night of his career against America's Joe Manley for the IBF light-welterweight title in his own hometown of Basildon in March 1987. Without a big enough venue in the town, promoter Warren erected a huge circus tent which was completely sold out and Marsh rose to the occasion as he marched into the champion and hammered away continually for round after round. Manley had no answer and was rescued, completely spent, in the 10th in yet another indication of Terry's fitness, wiry strength, sheer determination and boxing skills.
The man was relentless and outwilled a gutsy Japanese in defence of his world title a few months later at the Albert Hall, with potential rival Hector "Macho" Camacho in attendance. Marsh would have outworked the brash Puerto Rican, in my opinion, a man who boxed for only 90 seconds of every round and was eventually sussed out by Greg Haugen but firstly Terry had to defend against his No. 1 contender whose name believe it or not was (and is) F rankie Warren, which took irony to a whole new meaning as Marsh fell out with his manager over money and there was to be no reconciliation - ever.
The rift cost Marsh his boxing career at the height of his ability and while he dabbled with the idea of fighting in the States, nothing ever came of it. In the end, Marsh walked away with an unbeaten record as a pro on top of a brilliant amateur career (three ABA titles) but there should have been so much more.
bennie wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 07:20
I know who shot him, too, and it isn't Terry but it is someone close to him and that's as far as I'll go. Terry, of course, was found not guilty of the crime at the Old Bailey in 1990 (upon which his mate and heavyweight Ned Rawlins shouted, "Three cheers for the jury!").
The verdict marked the end of a horribly acrimonious split between the fighter and his old manager. Marsh was, in fact, Mr Warren's first signing as a licensed manager and promoter back in 1981 and only turned pro after he lost out on the welterweight spot for the Moscow Olympics in 1980. (Marsh won the ABA title that year, beating Liverpool puncher Joey Frost en route, but was then ordered to box-off with Frost for the Moscow berth and refused.) It has to be said that Warren guided his fighter skilfully through the ranks from the start. There was an early draw with Lloyd Christie at Bloomsbury in an eight-rounder but Christie could give anyone a tussle and went on to lift the British light-welterweight title. Otherwise, it was easy for the clever and superfit Marsh and the first indication that he was a bit special came when he outclassed Vernon Vanriel for the Southern Area light-welterweight title at York Hall in 1983. He made Vanriel look as slow as a heavyweight as he nipped in and out with quick combinations throughout the 10-rounder and three fights later in September 1984, he did the same to perennial and defending British champion Clinton McKenzie in a thrilling 12-rounder at Shoreditch. McKenzie, who first won the British title in 1978, tried everything to get to the wiry challenger but Marsh wouldn't crack and poured it on down the stretch just to make sure.
All of a sudden, Terry looked the complete fighter and displayed more iron will a year later in Monaco, where he outworked and outmuscled Italy's Alessandro Scapecchi for the European title and he defended the belt twice in the build-up to the greatest night of his career against America's Joe Manley for the IBF light-welterweight title in his own hometown of Basildon in March 1987. Without a big enough venue in the town, promoter Warren erected a huge circus tent which was completely sold out and Marsh rose to the occasion as he marched into the champion and hammered away continually for round after round. Manley had no answer and was rescued, completely spent, in the 10th in yet another indication of Terry's fitness, wiry strength, sheer determination and boxing skills.
The man was relentless and outwilled a gutsy Japanese in defence of his world title a few months later at the Albert Hall, with potential rival Hector "Macho" Camacho in attendance. Marsh would have outworked the brash Puerto Rican, in my opinion, a man who boxed for only 90 seconds of every round and was eventually sussed out by Greg Haugen but firstly Terry had to defend against his No. 1 contender whose name believe it or not was (and is) F rankie Warren, which took irony to a whole new meaning as Marsh fell out with his manager over money and there was to be no reconciliation - ever.
The rift cost Marsh his boxing career at the height of his ability and while he dabbled with the idea of fighting in the States, nothing ever came of it. In the end, Marsh walked away with an unbeaten record as a pro on top of a brilliant amateur career (three ABA titles) but there should have been so much more.
As always Bennie, your overviews are invaluable. I've never looked too much into Marsh, so this gives me a clearer idea of what he was. But do you rate Joe Manley at all? He doesn't look that great from his record, but records can be deceiving.
bennie wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 07:20
I know who shot him, too, and it isn't Terry but it is someone close to him and that's as far as I'll go. Terry, of course, was found not guilty of the crime at the Old Bailey in 1990 (upon which his mate and heavyweight Ned Rawlins shouted, "Three cheers for the jury!").
The verdict marked the end of a horribly acrimonious split between the fighter and his old manager. Marsh was, in fact, Mr Warren's first signing as a licensed manager and promoter back in 1981 and only turned pro after he lost out on the welterweight spot for the Moscow Olympics in 1980. (Marsh won the ABA title that year, beating Liverpool puncher Joey Frost en route, but was then ordered to box-off with Frost for the Moscow berth and refused.) It has to be said that Warren guided his fighter skilfully through the ranks from the start. There was an early draw with Lloyd Christie at Bloomsbury in an eight-rounder but Christie could give anyone a tussle and went on to lift the British light-welterweight title. Otherwise, it was easy for the clever and superfit Marsh and the first indication that he was a bit special came when he outclassed Vernon Vanriel for the Southern Area light-welterweight title at York Hall in 1983. He made Vanriel look as slow as a heavyweight as he nipped in and out with quick combinations throughout the 10-rounder and three fights later in September 1984, he did the same to perennial and defending British champion Clinton McKenzie in a thrilling 12-rounder at Shoreditch. McKenzie, who first won the British title in 1978, tried everything to get to the wiry challenger but Marsh wouldn't crack and poured it on down the stretch just to make sure.
All of a sudden, Terry looked the complete fighter and displayed more iron will a year later in Monaco, where he outworked and outmuscled Italy's Alessandro Scapecchi for the European title and he defended the belt twice in the build-up to the greatest night of his career against America's Joe Manley for the IBF light-welterweight title in his own hometown of Basildon in March 1987. Without a big enough venue in the town, promoter Warren erected a huge circus tent which was completely sold out and Marsh rose to the occasion as he marched into the champion and hammered away continually for round after round. Manley had no answer and was rescued, completely spent, in the 10th in yet another indication of Terry's fitness, wiry strength, sheer determination and boxing skills.
The man was relentless and outwilled a gutsy Japanese in defence of his world title a few months later at the Albert Hall, with potential rival Hector "Macho" Camacho in attendance. Marsh would have outworked the brash Puerto Rican, in my opinion, a man who boxed for only 90 seconds of every round and was eventually sussed out by Greg Haugen but firstly Terry had to defend against his No. 1 contender whose name believe it or not was (and is) F rankie Warren, which took irony to a whole new meaning as Marsh fell out with his manager over money and there was to be no reconciliation - ever.
The rift cost Marsh his boxing career at the height of his ability and while he dabbled with the idea of fighting in the States, nothing ever came of it. In the end, Marsh walked away with an unbeaten record as a pro on top of a brilliant amateur career (three ABA titles) but there should have been so much more.
As always Bennie, your overviews are invaluable. I've never looked too much into Marsh, so this gives me a clearer idea of what he was. But do you rate Joe Manley at all? He doesn't look that great from his record, but records can be deceiving.
Manley looked great in winning the IBF title from Gary Hinton in an absolute war and was a big betting favourite against Marsh with the British bookies, which shows you how little they understood Terry. The steely Basildon man proved a cut above and proved yet again that there is no advantage like home advantage. Manley was never in the hunt.
Nevertheless, the American was a fine ring mechanic with good power who would have gone to the 1980 Olympics (along with the likes of Don Curry, Richie Sandoval and Johnny Bumphus) but missed out due to the American boycott of the Games, which pretty well summed up much of his later boxing career. He turned pro in 1981 and lost crucial early fights to Harry Arroyo and Gene Hatcher - both of whom went on to win world titles. Manley was left behind. It looked grim when he was outscored by Ronnie Shields in a 12-rounder in 1985 because he now looked a bit of a choker. He had his moments against Shields (and against Arroyo and Hatcher) but overall was too cautious.
However, Joe began to fight with real devil in 1986 and scored a big win over Howard Davis in Atlantic City, dropping the veteran contender twice on the way to an exciting 10-round decision and that earned him a surprise crack at southpaw Hinton in October 1986, who was clearly expected to win but found himself on the floor in the second round and couldn't hold off an inspired challenger in a thrilling, punishing affair full of magnificent rallies from both men. Finally, Manley nailed the champion again in the 10th and this time Hinton was all through.
Manley came out of relative obscurity to win the title and fought with an intensity never seen from him before and good luck to him -he really went for it. Unfortunately, his reign proved to be desperately short-lived as Marsh, his first challenger, showed the same intensity five months later.
