Ya he looked awful, got dropped (which is a huge deal in a 4 rounder) and arguably lost even w/o the knockdownl. I know 'the amateurs aint the pros' , but I refuse to believe the guy I saw clean up in the ams is as bad as he was tonight.
Exactly. It wouldn't be a surprise that he'd lose eventually. But in his pro debut vs Gonzales...margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Aug 2019, 03:11 I think it's really surprising and I didn't see one peep before the fight that anyone thought Ramirez was losing. Those WSB fights are high level usually involving top shelf amateurs, loads of solid pros have taken WSB losses, like Josh Taylor lost twice, Parker lost multiple times, Hrgovic, Jo Jo Diaz, etc.. I'ts nothing like losing to some 4-2-2 kid who'd done nothing really, so can't say that it's not a big surprise. Doubt anyone except Gonzalez himself made the case for him winning.
Thankslocoxelbox wrote: ↑11 Aug 2019, 03:49 It was a huge upset though there were warning signs. Ramirez is known to be a party man and has been thrown out of the Cuban team on at at least two occasions.
One year before the 2016 Olympics he was basically out, having missed the Panams and World Championships, losing to Andy Cruz at home and more or less being described as an alcoholic.
Ramirez got a chance from heaven when Andy Cruz, who had already qualified for Rio, had to drop out due to not being able to make 56 kg anymore.
At the first qualifier Ramirez lost, thus failed to qualify, but then regained old form just in time for the Olympics.
After Rio he was again out of the team for almost a year and had to reduce 12 kg only to lose vs a thai fighter in Cuba in his comeback.
His last year as an amateur was far from impressive. He lost two wsb bouts (against good opposition though) and in his final amateur bout he was knocked down and hardly threw any punches against an unknown German. Very similar to yesterday's bout.
I'd guess he will come back from this setback, maybe even win a title but he won't make history as a pro.
- Clearcut for those unable to understand modern abc scoring rules of boxing.Best Coast wrote: ↑11 Aug 2019, 03:09 Disappointing loss for Ramirez but it doesnt come as a total shock to those who saw Robeisy lose a clearcut decision in the World Series of Boxing last year to Uzbekistani prospect Shakhobidin Zoirov (who is now 3-0 as a pro):
Beg to differ. Ramirez did not get "robbed" in the above video fight. Zoirov outlanded him and outscored Robeisy in at least 3 of the 5 rounds. All 3 judges had it 4 rounds to 1 for Zoirov. I like Ramirez and was hoping to see him win when I watched the video for the first time several months ago, I hadnt followed WSB much up until then.BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑11 Aug 2019, 21:38- Clearcut for those unable to understand modern abc scoring rules of boxing.Best Coast wrote: ↑11 Aug 2019, 03:09 Disappointing loss for Ramirez but it doesnt come as a total shock to those who saw Robeisy lose a clearcut decision in the World Series of Boxing last year to Uzbekistani prospect Shakhobidin Zoirov (who is now 3-0 as a pro):
Shak does start off strong in a high energy jumping Jack in the box style, but Rob remains composed and by the 2nd starting to time him to show good fighting instincts going after him.
Meanwhile Shak heaving in his corner from the effort and by the 3rd visably tiring and getting pushed back. His main weapon was the leaping head butt that Rob dealt with smoothly. I'd say at least 3-2 if not 4-1 Rob, so yeah, got robbed in the WS followed by defection and unfortunate KD in his pro debut.
Make no mistake: Featherweight Robeisy Ramirez's loss in his professional debut was an abject disaster. There is no sugarcoating this train wreck.
Ramirez, 25, was one of the most heralded fighters to turn pro in years. His fight Saturday in Philadelphia was designed to be a showcase, an absolutely nonthreatening fight. So it came as an utter shock that the hand-picked Adan Gonzales (5-2-2, 2 KOs), 22, of Denver, dropped him with a clean left hand in the opening seconds of the bout and went on to smack him around for most of the four rounds en route to a split decision that should have been unanimous (40-35 and 39-36 for Gonzales and an unconscionable 38-37 for Ramirez).
The southpaw Ramirez was a massively decorated amateur who won back-to-back Olympic gold medals for Cuba in 2012 and 2016 before defecting and signing with Top Rank with fanfare earlier this year. As an amateur, he scored Olympic wins over Shakur Stevenson (in the 2016 gold medal match) and Tugstsogt Nyambayar (in the 2012 gold medal match). They are both now unbeaten pros and mandatory world title challengers with huge futures. Ramirez also notched Olympic wins over two other unbeaten pros on the fast track: Michael Conlan and Murodjon Akhmadaliev, who is going to challenge Daniel Roman for his unified junior featherweight world title on Sept. 13.
The level of upset Gonzales pulled off cannot be overstated.
Former two-division world champion Timothy Bradley Jr., working as an analyst for the ESPN+ broadcast, was rightly hard on Ramirez and trainer Rob Mendez.
"He's going to have to get himself a new training team. He was not ready for this debut," Bradley opined. "He looked terrible in there. He looked tired from the second round and he got beat down. It's not over for him. The kid got some talent. He does. I see some talent but he needs to be taught the right way. He needs to get with a good team, a good trainer, someone that knows the sport well."
The questions about Ramirez's preparedness for the fight are reasonable because he rarely used his jab, seemed to have no particular game plan and -- despite the knockdown -- showed zero urgency, which is tough to overcome in a four-round bout. It remains to be seen if Ramirez will blame Mendez and find a new trainer. It will also be interesting to see if he can rebound mentally from such a mind-blowing and crushing defeat.
However, there have been some notable fighters who have also lost their pro debuts and ultimately found boxing success -- even greatness. Those fighters may not have had the expectations hung on Ramirez because they were not elite amateurs, but the list of those fighters might bring comfort to Team Ramirez. It will remind them that one loss, no matter how horrendous, does not mean the dream is over.
The most significant of those fighters is Henry Armstrong, who not only lost his pro debut by third-round knockout but lost four of his first five fights. Armstrong ultimately held the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight world titles in the late 1930s, when there was only one world title in each division and there were only eight weight classes in boxing. He is ranked by many as No. 2 on the all-time pound-for-pound list behind Sugar Ray Robinson.
Here are a few others:
Bernard Hopkins lost a majority four-round decision in his pro debut and went on to set the record for most consecutive middleweight title defenses (20). He also won the light heavyweight world title during a legendary career.
Juan Manuel Marquez suffered a first-round disqualification loss in his pro debut and went on to become one of Mexico's all-time best, winning world titles in four divisions (featherweight, junior lightweight, lightweight and junior welterweight) and engaging in a historic four-fight series with Manny Pacquiao.
Wilfredo Vazquez lost a four-round decision in his pro debut and went on to win world titles at bantamweight, junior featherweight and featherweight as one of Puerto Rico's best boxers.
England's Johnny Nelson lost his first three fights -- two by six-round decision, one by four-round decision -- but went on to eventually win a cruiserweight world title and make a division-record 13 defenses.
Mexico's Orlando Salido lost his debut by fourth-round knockout but went on to win titles at featherweight and junior lightweight.
Mexico's Pipino Cuevas got stopped in the second round of his debut but later won a welterweight world title, which he held for four years. He was enshrined in the International Boxing Hall of Fame in 2002
Of today's active fighters, two stand out:
Srisaket Sor Rungvisai, who suffered third-round knockout losses in his first two pro fights but became a national hero in Thailand and a two-time junior bantamweight titlist who twice conquered Roman "Chocolatito" Gonzalez.
Tevin Farmer suffered a fourth-round stoppage in his pro debut but is now a dominant junior lightweight titleholder.
If Ramirez can bounce back and reach the potential so many have seen in him, he will be in good company.
