Young-Lyle 2 w/ Foreman Commentary!

[Tony1244]

Interesting fight with Young beating Lyle again. Perhaps even more interesting is Foreman's commentary less than a year before GF lost to Young himself in similar fashion. Foreman was saying Lyle shouldn't load up, he should just worry about scoring.

[gilgamesh]

A better example of "Easier said than done" you'll seldom find.

[JohnReed]

I remember watching that fight live and being surprised at how easily Young whipped Lyle. It wasn't even close.

[Tony1244]

Young was the best fighter who looked like he wasn't doing anything.

The Foreman commentary in this fight is golden.

[Caractacus]

I'm fairly sure that the humidity and heat affected George Foreman early on like it probably did in Zaire.

[Tony1244]

I'm fairly sure that the humidity and heat affected George Foreman early on like it probably did in Zaire.

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

[oogiebe]

I'm fairly sure that the humidity and heat affected George Foreman early on like it probably did in Zaire.

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

I'm the furthest from a Jimmy Young fan, but he whupped up on big George fair and square.

[Tony1244]

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

I'm the furthest from a Jimmy Young fan, but he whupped up on big George fair and square.

Absolutely.

[JohnReed]

I'm fairly sure that the humidity and heat affected George Foreman early on like it probably did in Zaire.

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

In the 1970s, the entire boxing world regarded Foreman as being a five round fighter. A guy who was absolutely devastating for five rounds, but anything more than that, he tended to fatigue.

For this reason, anytime Foreman fought, the other guy's strategy was to get through the first five rounds, after which anything could happen. But very, very few fighters were capable of surviving five rounds with Foreman.

Why did the 1970s version of Foreman have this stamina issue? I don't know. I don't thing anyone in the boxing world knew either. Foreman was certainly in great shape, but still, he tended to expend his gas tank by the end of the fifth. I guess Foreman's problem was that he loaded up on all his punches -- literally packing the kind of power that could demolish buildings -- during the early rounds.

Whatever the case, in the 1990s boxing scribes did note that the older, more relaxed, slower paced version of Foreman didn't appear to have those stamina issues anymore.

[JohnReed]

Young was the best fighter who looked like he wasn't doing anything.

The Foreman commentary in this fight is golden.

Young won the fight almost effortlessly. He was simply too supple, too agile, and too bouncy for Lyle. After the bout, World/International Boxing compared hitting Young with trying to land a solid punch against a dangling string. Young really did demonstrate that kind of boxing ability against Lyle on this day.

Based on what I saw that day, I remember making the mistake of thinking that Lyle was an over-the-hill fighter. A burned out 34 year old who had lost his reflexes and legs. I was wrong, as Lyle came back from this loss to pound out a win over tough, world-class Joe Bugner just several months later.

The reality is that Young simply had Lyle's number. I think it's possible that Lyle always had trouble with agile, defensive, laterally-moving boxers who could spoil him. That's my impression, at least. But then again: look how well Lyle did against the quick-moving, slick boxing Muhammad Ali in 1975. So who knows.

[oogiebe]

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

In the 1970s, the entire boxing world regarded Foreman as being a five round fighter. A guy who was absolutely devastating for five rounds, but anything more than that, he tended to fatigue.

For this reason, anytime Foreman fought, the other guy's strategy was to get through the first five rounds, after which anything could happen. But very, very few fighters were capable of surviving five rounds with Foreman.

Why did the 1970s version of Foreman have this stamina issue? I don't know. I don't thing anyone in the boxing world knew either. Foreman was certainly in great shape, but still, he tended to expend his gas tank by the end of the fifth. I guess Foreman's problem was that he loaded up on all his punches -- literally packing the kind of power that could demolish buildings -- during the early rounds.

Whatever the case, in the 1990s boxing scribes did note that the older, more relaxed, slower paced version of Foreman didn't appear to have those stamina issues anymore.

George was very "tight" in the 70's. Loaded up most of his punches...missed a lot of punches...and was never able to relax like older George did. He expended a ton of unnecessary energy as a lad. Wanted to pound every opponent to dust rather than letting an opening or opportunity come to him. He came with a rage that burned him up early.

[Tony1244]

The other guy had to deal with the heat too. George was a Houston, Texas kid, he grew up with heat. Whatever the reason was, he had some pacing issues.

In Zaire, he loaded up with every shot. In San Juan, he also got tired, but didn't look like he was over extending himself. He did keep his hands very high, which is tiring.

In the 1970s, the entire boxing world regarded Foreman as being a five round fighter. A guy who was absolutely devastating for five rounds, but anything more than that, he tended to fatigue.

For this reason, anytime Foreman fought, the other guy's strategy was to get through the first five rounds, after which anything could happen. But very, very few fighters were capable of surviving five rounds with Foreman.

Why did the 1970s version of Foreman have this stamina issue? I don't know. I don't thing anyone in the boxing world knew either. Foreman was certainly in great shape, but still, he tended to expend his gas tank by the end of the fifth. I guess Foreman's problem was that he loaded up on all his punches -- literally packing the kind of power that could demolish buildings -- during the early rounds.

Whatever the case, in the 1990s boxing scribes did note that the older, more relaxed, slower paced version of Foreman didn't appear to have those stamina issues anymore.

He fought tense as other alluded to. There was also talk that he had an old school habit of depriving himself of water, which sounds pretty dumb to me.

He had poor presence and defense against Lyle. He tried to pace himself against Young, but it didn't work.

I was a huge fan back then but I view him more critically today.

[Tony1244]

Young was the best fighter who looked like he wasn't doing anything.

The Foreman commentary in this fight is golden.

Young won the fight almost effortlessly. He was simply too supple, too agile, and too bouncy for Lyle. After the bout, World/International Boxing compared hitting Young with trying to land a solid punch against a dangling string. Young really did demonstrate that kind of boxing ability against Lyle on this day.

Based on what I saw that day, I remember making the mistake of thinking that Lyle was an over-the-hill fighter. A burned out 34 year old who had lost his reflexes and legs. I was wrong, as Lyle came back from this loss to pound out a win over tough, world-class Joe Bugner just several months later.

The reality is that Young simply had Lyle's number. I think it's possible that Lyle always had trouble with agile, defensive, laterally-moving boxers who could spoil him. That's my impression, at least. But then again: look how well Lyle did against the quick-moving, slick boxing Muhammad Ali in 1975. So who knows.

Ali really looked like he wasn't even trying against Lyle except in spurts. Ali's next fight against Bugner had me thinking Ali could have looked much better against Lyle if he had wanted. On the other hand, 2 excellent performances of Lyle's were losses against Ali and Foreman.

[JohnReed]

On the other hand, 2 excellent performances of Lyle's were losses against Ali and Foreman.

On top of that, there's Lyle's KO over Shavers, and his points victory against Bonavena. I personally am willing to give Lyle high praise even for his decisive wins over Mathis (KO), first fight against Middleton (KO), and Ellis (decision). All superlative performances, based on what I saw and read.

I really wish I could see the Lyle-Bonavena fight. I don't know if anyone has the film, or has a CD copy for sale. The press descriptions of the bout make it appear that Lyle won comfortably and impressively, something like 8-4 in rounds. The official ringside scoring, however, is bizarre and confusing. Judging on a 5 point must system, one judge had it 52-46, and another scored it 55-51. I don't know how the hell to interpret that, given that the winner of a round gets 5 points, and the loser generally gets 4.

BTW, I've heard that Lyle's KO8 win over Boone Kirkman was another great performance, a win that validated Lyle's very high position in the world rankings.

[oogiebe]

On the other hand, 2 excellent performances of Lyle's were losses against Ali and Foreman.

On top of that, there's Lyle's KO over Shavers, and his points victory against Bonavena. I personally am willing to give Lyle high praise even for his decisive wins over Mathis (KO), first fight against Middleton (KO), and Ellis (decision). All superlative performances, based on what I saw and read.

I really wish I could see the Lyle-Bonavena fight. I don't know if anyone has the film, or has a CD copy for sale. The press descriptions of the bout make it appear that Lyle won comfortably and impressively, something like 8-4 in rounds. The official ringside scoring, however, is bizarre and confusing. Judging on a 5 point must system, one judge had it 52-46, and another scored it 55-51. I don't know how the hell to interpret that, given that the winner of a round gets 5 points, and the loser generally gets 4.

BTW, I've heard that Lyle's KO8 win over Boone Kirkman was another great performance, a win that validated Lyle's very high position in the world rankings.

Lyle was a good fighter. He started boxing very very late and still attained high marks. I always wondered how great he may have been had he started to box earlier in his life. Side Note: He almost died in prison as a result of a gaping knife wound.

[Caractacus]

Sheyaat. Ken Norton's 15 round fight with Jimmy Young was scored even going into the 15th round.
Norton said Young had him hurt at least twice,in round 2 and especially in round 10.

Earnie Shavers fought Jimmy Young twice in 1973 and 1974.
Shavers recieved some good advice from Joe Frazier.
which was something like pretend you hitting him with your best rights early in the fight
then when he begins to think that there is no real power in it,wait for the right time and really unload with it
(Shavers knocked out Young in the third round
then in November 1974,Shavers had a re-match with Young and Shavers said he was shocked how much more skill-full Young had become over that time.

[Caractacus]

BTW Ron lyle looked a bit larthegic in that fight I thought.
In a book about his life,he said that he believed "Rip" Clark had given him an orange before that fight
that was laced with something that he believed was to get him hooked on drugs.

[JohnReed]

BTW Ron lyle looked a bit larthegic in that fight I thought.
In a book about his life,he said that he believed "Rip" Clark had given him an orange before that fight
that was laced with something that he believed was to get him hooked on drugs.

Who is "Rip" Clark? And what else did Lyle say about the orange incident?

[Caractacus]

"Rip" Clark was a former jailmate and assistant trainer of Ron Lyle's who Lyle would later be charged with second degree- murder of in 1978.

[JohnReed]

"Rip" Clark was a former jailmate and assistant trainer of Ron Lyle's who Lyle would later be charged with second degree- murder of in 1978.

That's interesting...I wasn't aware of that. Assuming this story is true (about the orange), then maybe it was laced with speed. Possibly someone thought they were doing Lyle a favor by putting amphetamines into his orange, expecting that it would pep up the fighter and make him stronger. The reality, however, is that too much speed can have the opposite effect: it can drain and weaken someone.

I'm not saying I believe the orange story, but I am speculating on what could have been the case.

[Caractacus]

Rip Clark was killed in Ron Lyle's home New Years Eve 1977/1978.
check out this article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... dab8a2337/