"Pound for pound" lists are completely bogus

[Ilya Muromets]

The so-called "pound for pound" list is a bunch of baloney started as a space filler in the useless Ring magazine, which was mostly space filler anyway - large print on cheap paper, lots of blank space and blown up low pixel photos, space filler articles, and silly new artificial lists, like this one - and now it's presented as if it is some sort of important official ranking whereas it is nothing more than some guy's list of his favorite fighters almost always favoring the little guys. I am very disappointed in BoxRec for presenting it as something official and important as it is completely bogus!

[Impractical Poster]

I wouldn't say they're completely bogus. But I get your gist.

[oogiebe]

P4P certainly spurs some of the greatest debates in boxing history. So full of conjecture, we fans always bite. I personally despise P4P rankings and find them rather meaningless. Too many 'assumptions.'

[gilgamesh]

I like the super nerdy deep, deep details of things so I don't mind the P4P talk, but I will say this.

Being the #1 guy in your weight class carries just as much weight if not more than P4P #1, because it's tangible. It's real. These ARE the people you're fighting, and you're better than them. That's what matters.

Whether or not you're theoretically better than guys 30 pounds bigger or smaller than you is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. What matters is that you're better than the people you actually have to share the ring with.

[oogiebe]

I like the super nerdy deep, deep details of things so I don't mind the P4P talk, but I will say this.

Being the #1 guy in your weight class carries just as much weight if not more than P4P #1, because it's tangible. It's real. These ARE the people you're fighting, and you're better than them. That's what matters.

Whether or not you're theoretically better than guys 30 pounds bigger or smaller than you is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. What matters is that you're better than the people you actually have to share the ring with.

Agreed. All time lists by division are much more meaningful to me. Still a lot of speculation.

[greg]

..as long as boxing fans realise it's all speculation and people certainly like to speculate, so why not...in my opinion though there's a lot of subjectivity in these discussions so I'm not a part of them...

[dagilechia]

for me this kind of rankings are just for fun and discussion, some people tend to take it too seriously at times

[Onetimeonly]

Yes, they are meaningless. The people arguing resumes is the funniest. If anything gives credence to your eye test it's p4p. I remember mexibox unloading on me 3 years ago for having Crawford and Errol 1-2

[oogiebe]

Yes, they are meaningless. The people arguing resumes is the funniest. If anything gives credence to your eye test it's p4p. I remember mexibox unloading on me 3 years ago for having Crawford and Errol 1-2

Whatever happened to that loon?

[oogiebe]

..as long as boxing fans realise it's all speculation and people certainly like to speculate, so why not...in my opinion though there's a lot of subjectivity in these discussions so I'm not a part of them...

Well there's the rub. Insult infused posts go on way too much as many pontificate their speculation as fact. It's a shvt storm most of the time, unfortunately.

[gilgamesh]

Yes, they are meaningless. The people arguing resumes is the funniest. If anything gives credence to your eye test it's p4p. I remember mexibox unloading on me 3 years ago for having Crawford and Errol 1-2

Whatever happened to that loon?

He's right behind me on the Boxing Prophet game. So he's still following the sport obviously. Maybe just not the forum.

[oogiebe]

Whatever happened to that loon?

He's right behind me on the Boxing Prophet game. So he's still following the sport obviously. Maybe just not the forum.

He reminded me of EO in many ways. Glad to NOT see him in the forum any longer.

[Onetimeonly]

Yes, they are meaningless. The people arguing resumes is the funniest. If anything gives credence to your eye test it's p4p. I remember mexibox unloading on me 3 years ago for having Crawford and Errol 1-2

Whatever happened to that loon?

He probably just moved on after his relentless wrongness. Our first heated encounter was him calling me a moron for saying ggg was a bigger draw than kovalev.

[oogiebe]

Whatever happened to that loon?

He probably just moved on after his relentless wrongness. Our first heated encounter was him calling me a moron for saying ggg was a bigger draw than kovalev.

Dude reminded of EO to a tee.

[Onetimeonly]

He probably just moved on after his relentless wrongness. Our first heated encounter was him calling me a moron for saying ggg was a bigger draw than kovalev.

Dude reminded of EO to a tee.

Really? Not me. He's just an ass who takes his p4p super seriously.

[Enlightened-One]

Discussions about pound-for-pound lists are super-fun. It’s simply harmless meaningless barbershop talk.

It’s inevitable that people will fantasise about theoretically impossible bouts against a variety of fighters competing in different weight classes.

At the end of the day, if you’re a boxing nerd like me, you’ll always enjoy discussions about “who’s the very best” type topics.

[oogiebe]

Discussions about pound-for-pound lists are super-fun. It’s simply harmless meaningless barbershop talk.

It’s inevitable that people will fantasise about theoretically impossible bouts against a variety of fighters competing in different weight classes.

At the end of the day, if you’re a boxing nerd like me, you’ll always enjoy discussions about “who’s the very best” type topics.

I don't disagree EO. My only issue is when folks forget that it's very subjective and get into trading insults and such. Discussions and even debates are fine, but I find that many folks take their own opinions as fact, forgetting the 'nature' of such lists and insisting rather than suggesting. If kept from the banter, it could be a fun exercise.

[Enlightened-One]

Discussions about pound-for-pound lists are super-fun. It’s simply harmless meaningless barbershop talk.

It’s inevitable that people will fantasise about theoretically impossible bouts against a variety of fighters competing in different weight classes.

At the end of the day, if you’re a boxing nerd like me, you’ll always enjoy discussions about “who’s the very best” type topics.

I don't disagree EO. My only issue is when folks forget that it's very subjective and get into trading insults and such. Discussions and even debates are fine, but I find that many folks take their own opinions as fact, forgetting the 'nature' of such lists and insisting rather than suggesting. If kept from the banter, it could be a fun exercise.

I wholeheartedly agree with absolutely everything you wrote in that post.

[oogiebe]

I don't disagree EO. My only issue is when folks forget that it's very subjective and get into trading insults and such. Discussions and even debates are fine, but I find that many folks take their own opinions as fact, forgetting the 'nature' of such lists and insisting rather than suggesting. If kept from the banter, it could be a fun exercise.

I wholeheartedly agree with absolutely everything you wrote in that post.

I just spit out my drink! LOL! It was bound to happen sooner or later!

[Enlightened-One]

I wholeheartedly agree with absolutely everything you wrote in that post.

I just spit out my drink! LOL! It was bound to happen sooner or later!

[lazboy]

I just spit out my drink! LOL! It was bound to happen sooner or later!

Hilarious. Good, great, grand, Everything is wonderful.

[oogiebe]

Hilarious. Good, great, grand, Everything is wonderful.

LMFAO! He died way too soon! Funniest guy ever!

[conan_the_cribber]

I wouldn't say they're completely bogus. But I get your gist.

This.

[Ilya Muromets]

I wouldn't say they're completely bogus. But I get your gist.

This.

Not "completely" inasmuch as, sure, you'll find some pretty good fighters on the pound for pound lists, but really they're just a list of somebody's favorites, always favoring the smaller guys. For instance on Boxrec's list, which they give top billing on their front page, out of the 17 shown there's only one single heavyweight, and that's Andy Ruiz. Andy Ruiz? That's a lot of pounds for a "pound for pound" list!

Link:

https://boxrec.com/

[conan_the_cribber]

This.

Not "completely" inasmuch as, sure, you'll find some pretty good fighters on the pound for pound lists, but really they're just a list of somebody's favorites, always favoring the smaller guys. For instance on Boxrec's list, which they give top billing on their front page, out of the 17 shown there's only one single heavyweight, and that's Andy Ruiz. Andy Ruiz? That's a lot of pounds for a "pound for pound" list!

Link:

https://boxrec.com/

As somebody who has worked on the boxrec algorithm over the years, I know exactly why Ruiz is there on an automated list. He beat AJ, who beat Wlad. Ruiz just inherited those points. There are always going to be cases like this e.g. Jeff Horn defeating Manny Pac or from a few years ago, Glen Johnson defeating Tarver who defeated RJJ.

A computing algorithm based on victories and who beat who, has no chance to factor in "lucky punches" or "general upsets" or "dude is a fat kunt".