Roy Jones: Skilled or athletic

[lazboy]

I've heard Roy Jones being referred to as the greatest boxer of our time, numero 1. There's various youtube video about this.

What was he though? Extremely athletically gifted or did he have a high level of skill? Is it both? My understanding of skill is strong fundamentals, being able to set things up, control and anticipate the opponent, correct punch technique and intelligent defence (blocking, distance management and head movement) - not just the out-speeding of an opponent.

No doubt Roy had tremendous heart and far from poor skills. He's a great and accomplished many things. However I feel like he is more athletically gifted than skilled. Watching some of his prime fights he showcases freakish speed and power. In terms of his skills it's hard to judge. A lot of his early fights are one sided and he tends to 'fence opponents', sticking to the outside. Once he started slowing down, he lost his edge.

[conan_the_cribber]

Nobody gets as far as Roy Jones did without being both skilled and athletic. However, if made to choose, then I would say he was more athletic than skilled. His athleticism enabled him to fight in a different manner to all other fighters at the time. Like Ali, he used his athleticism to his advantage using an unconventional style at times. But we're talking like 98/100 for athleticism and 95/100 for skill, certainly not someone like Vitali, who was a truly great athlete, but only reasonably skillful.

Loma and Mayweather are elite fighters who I would say were more skilled than athletic. Here I'm thinking numbers like 90+/100 for athleticism and 98+/100 for skill.

[lazboy]

I also regard Mayweather and Loma as more skilful than athletic, agreeing with you however I can’t rate Jones skill as high as you have. He clearly knows his way around the ring yet I feel there’s a big discrepancy compared to his athleticism. Honestly, I’m finding it hard to describe and this is why I wanted other opinions. Whether they agree with me or not.

[DrDuke]

Roy Jones isn't the greatest. His skills were remarkable in his prime, but his overall opposition was far from the greatest level. And, unfortunately, he was fighting a lot of big names after being past it. He isn't even the greatest light heavy.

[Puncher7]

Athletically skilled - fundamentaly flawed

[lazboy]

Roy Jones isn't the greatest. His skills were remarkable in his prime, but his overall opposition was far from the greatest level. And, unfortunately, he was fighting a lot of big names after being past it. He isn't even the greatest light heavy.

Ok, not really the point of the thread about whether he’s the greatest or not. We all know sugar ray Leonard is the greatest.

When you say he’s skills were remarkable, what do you mean. His speed? His defence?

[lazboy]

Athletically skilled - fundamentaly flawed

Yes this is what I’m siding towards.

[DrDuke]

When you say he’s skills were remarkable, what do you mean. His speed? His defence?

His reflexes and speed. Both offence and defence.

[lazboy]

When you say he’s skills were remarkable, what do you mean. His speed? His defence?

His reflexes and speed. Both offence and defence.

See, I understand that as more athleticism.

[DrDuke]

His reflexes and speed. Both offence and defence.

See, I understand that as more athleticism.

Probably you're right. That is more depended on the physical qualities.

[lazboy]

it’s complicated.

[Noxy]

When I think of him - it’s his speed that stands out. The way he made top fighters look ordinary and ponderous.

[conan_the_cribber]

When I think of him - it’s his speed that stands out. The way he made top fighters look ordinary and ponderous.

When I think of him I think of a) his blistering hand speed, in particular his lead right, his defense - he was really hard to hit and his ability to hit from angles, even if he himself was off balance b) the long list of sub-standard opponents he fought, not that there were too many top fighters ready to fight him at his prime and c) how he absolutely schooled John Ruiz, who was simply terrified of Jones's left hook after Jones wobbled him in round 4. That took all the fight out of Ruiz.

I like to keep these images in my head instead of thinking about the 50yo washed up dude fighting in Russia in order to pay his tax bills. Such a shame.

[Boxerbeetle]

Definitely far more athletic than skilled. As soon as he lost his athletic edge, he started getting ko’d left, right & centre. A more skilled boxer would have been able to adapt much better to losing the speed advantage.

[NateJR]

Both extremely skilled and athletic, but yes more athletic then he was skilled. I define skill as being able to accomplish something based on knowledge and Roy was extremely skilled at what he did in the ring. Roys skills were based around being extremely fast and athletic.

I believe skills and fundamentals as two totally different things, fundamentals to me are being extremely technical, which Roy Jones was not, he broke many of the fundemental rules of boxing.

[ironbeard]

Roy Jones isn't the greatest. His skills were remarkable in his prime, but his overall opposition was far from the greatest level. And, unfortunately, he was fighting a lot of big names after being past it. He isn't even the greatest light heavy.

Ok, not really the point of the thread about whether he’s the greatest or not. We all know sugar ray Leonard is the greatest.

When you say he’s skills were remarkable, what do you mean. His speed? His defence?

It has already been decreed by the debate police that it is not possible to compare boxers from different eras.

Stop now or face the consequences (10 demerits, and two days of after school detention).

[margaret thatcher]

He was athletically phenomenal, an elite among ATGs in that regard. His skills were not as well developed though and it showed as he aged and no longer had the same athleticism to offset the technical flaws. Compare that to Hopkins, who he beat when younger, who as an oldie was not fast or powerful and had pretty much zero stoppages, but still won loads of fights vs good opponents because he had all the skills and ring IQ to fall back on.

[Onetimeonly]

Ummmm, both. He was people are pretending loma is. A level below Whitaker, but one or the other is a silly question.

[Enlightened-One]

On purely a pound-for-pound basis, the prime version of Roy Jones Jr., without PED testing, would have almost certainly beaten the likes of Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Bernard Hopkins, because of a combination of his remarkable physical attributes, coupled with his unorthodox fighting style.

That being said, Money May’s and The Executioner’s boxing fundamentals and ring IQ were far more superior to Roy’s, which allowed Floyd and Bernard to accomplish much more within the sport and also prolong their careers.

Mayweather Jr. had the intelligence to adapt his fighting style to optimise his performance levels, even when his athleticism was on the decline… much in the same vein as Bernard Hopkins did during the final stages of his own career.

The reason why Jones Jr’s career declined so rapidly, became a shot fighter seemingly overnight, was his failure to adapt to his fighting style to cater for his own physical decline. He didn’t have the skills and ring IQ to fall back on, since he continuously tried to fight like the younger of himself against opponents’ whose athleticism was greater than his own.

We know that Roy Jones Jr. once tested positive for banned substances (i.e. the testosterone precursor androstenedione), but we don’t know how many times he consumed PED’s (voluntarily or otherwise) throughout the course of his career, since he wasn’t tested that often.

In today’s world, with VADA’s “clean” & “fair” boxing programs with the WBC & WBA, we can only speculate how effective Jones Jr’s in-ring performances would have been had the prime version of Roy been around today, since I honestly don’t know for certain whether some of his remarkable displays were due to his natural talent or cheating.

Would Roy Jones Jr. be capable of becoming the “king of the hill” (his words), in today’s sport, if he had to remain clean in order to compete at the highest level?

[Syntax Error]

Athletic.

He's similar to Muhammad Ali in some ways, in that he fought his own way and it worked for him, right up until he began to decline physically.

It wasn't text book, but it worked for him.

You could not teach someone to fight like Roy Jones Jr.

[KiwiRider]

When I think of him - it’s his speed that stands out. The way he made top fighters look ordinary and ponderous.

When I think of him I think of a) his blistering hand speed, in particular his lead right, his defense - he was really hard to hit and his ability to hit from angles, even if he himself was off balance b) the long list of sub-standard opponents he fought, not that there were too many top fighters ready to fight him at his prime and c) how he absolutely schooled John Ruiz, who was simply terrified of Jones's left hook after Jones wobbled him in round 4. That took all the fight out of Ruiz.

I like to keep these images in my head instead of thinking about the 50yo washed up dude fighting in Russia in order to pay his tax bills. Such a shame.

Nice summation
I agree.
I would also add that his combination punch selection was pretty good in his prime as well. It was the speed of his combinations for sure, but also the upstairs downstairs, left side, right side that often befuddled his opponent's defence.

[Yuzo]

It wasn't text book

what is text book?

[Enlightened-One]

It wasn't text book

what is text book?

What isn’t text book is standing by the ropes, with both arms behind your back allowing your opponent to throw punches at you whilst their in punching range.

[Impractical Poster]

Jones was extremely athletic and skilled. He wasn't necessarily skilled in the textbook fundamentals of the sport. But he was extremely skilled at how he fought. He had his own way of fighting. His own skillset.

As far as Loma is concerned. I think he is equally athletic and skilled. His speed and movement are beautiful to watch.

[oogiebe]

Both.