Round-by-Round: Tyson Fury vs. Otto Wallin - September 14, 2019

[lazboy]

Wow I've heard it all now. A fight should be stopped because of blood...

You keep repeating that disinfo. It's not the blood it's the possibility of eye damage. All agree that if it had been Wallin the fight would definitely been stopped so that is manifestly unfair.

You have the benefit of hindsight and yet you people are continuing to argue this. There was no damage done to his eye. Fury himself didn't want the fight stopped. Fury went on to win the fight, fairly.

What is the problem? It was a good thing the fight continued. Fury kept his record, fans got their moneys worth, Wallin got 12 rounds of experience at a high level, etc, etc.

[ironbeard]

When I had a very similar wound in a very serious fight I did not even know it was there until it was over. It was an ugly cut but not seriously threatening to Fury’s health, in and of itself.

[Ilya Muromets]

You keep repeating that disinfo. It's not the blood it's the possibility of eye damage. All agree that if it had been Wallin the fight would definitely been stopped so that is manifestly unfair.

You have the benefit of hindsight and yet you people are continuing to argue this. There was no damage done to his eye. Fury himself didn't want the fight stopped. Fury went on to win the fight, fairly.

What is the problem? It was a good thing the fight continued. Fury kept his record, fans got their moneys worth, Wallin got 12 rounds of experience at a high level, etc, etc.

You are saying that there was no damage done to his eye but you don't really know that, nor do I, but he needed serious and urgent medical attention after the fight. Eye damage might make itself manifest later on. Many boxers suffer detached retinas. Sure Fury didn't want the fight stopped. Most fighters don't want the fight stopped even if their eyeball was almost hanging out and their brain was swelling up. Mago Abdusalomov didn't quit. That's what the doctors in attendance - or actors playing doctors as the case may be - are supposed to be there for. A conscientious corner too.

Yeah it was an exciting fight. I agree with your last sentence. But won't you admit that if cuts half as bad had happened to Wallin they would have stopped it? I think it should have been stopped and a second huge upset would have happened, an upset even far huger than the last one.

[Ilya Muromets]

When I had a very similar wound in a very serious fight I did not even know it was there until it was over. It was an ugly cut but not seriously threatening to Fury’s health, in and of itself.

That's the thing, when the adrenalin is flowing you can be very indifferent to injury. They are very careful about deep cuts by the eye in boxing, and the smaller cut on the eyelid also was dangerous, maybe even more dangerous, because the eyelid is just thin skin over the eyeball itself.

Is there an eye doctor in the house? May we have your input please?

[ironbeard]

When I had a very similar wound in a very serious fight I did not even know it was there until it was over. It was an ugly cut but not seriously threatening to Fury’s health, in and of itself.

That's the thing, when the adrenalin is flowing you can be very indifferent to injury. They are very careful about deep cuts by the eye in boxing, and the smaller cut on the eyelid also was dangerous, maybe even more dangerous, because the eyelid is just thin skin over the eyeball itself.

Is there an eye doctor in the house? May we have your input please?

There is an excellent thread over on British & Irish called “Cutsman 101.”

[lazboy]

You have the benefit of hindsight and yet you people are continuing to argue this. There was no damage done to his eye. Fury himself didn't want the fight stopped. Fury went on to win the fight, fairly.

What is the problem? It was a good thing the fight continued. Fury kept his record, fans got their moneys worth, Wallin got 12 rounds of experience at a high level, etc, etc.

You are saying that there was no damage done to his eye but you don't really know that, nor do I, but he needed serious and urgent medical attention after the fight. Eye damage might make itself manifest later on. Many boxers suffer detached retinas. Sure Fury didn't want the fight stopped. Most fighters don't want the fight stopped even if their eyeball was almost hanging out and their brain was swelling up. Mago Abdusalomov didn't quit. That's what the doctors in attendance - or actors playing doctors as the case may be - are supposed to be there for. A conscientious corner too.

Yeah it was an exciting fight. I agree with your last sentence. But won't you admit that if cuts half as bad had happened to Wallin they would have stopped it? I think it should have been stopped and a second huge upset would have happened, an upset even far huger than the last one.

I'm not a medical dr.
My understanding is: A detached retina is not synonymous with a cut above the eye. It is a separate medical issue. Fury's wound was ugly. We must credit his cut-man as the wound looked worse than it behaved, in terms of blood flow.
His face was not ballooning up like more grotesque examples including Lebedev.

As for you question about Wallin, we can only guess. They may have stopped the fight but the context needs to be explored. Wallin was not a known quantity such as Fury, which includes Furys known resilience and skill level. Furthermore, Fury was performing well, dominating Wallin in the later rounds. It did not appear that he was adversely affected. I would understand the ref stopping the fight for Wallin for his own protection, however Fury did not need this protection.

Wallin a unknown fighter, a significant underdog, the smaller fighter and one who was eating clean punches consistently. Perhaps the fight would have been stopped on the possibility that he would be seriously hurt. That would be reasonable in my opinion - however it is still based on a possibility that he would be seriously hurt.

It was after all the refs and Judges discretion which allowed Fury to continue, their expertise enabled them to make the decision. It was the right decision for Fury as he ended up winning the fight and there was no indication his eye was damaged. The possibility that he would be seriously injured from the cut was reduced compared to Wallins circumstances.

Regardless of this all:
Fury received medical attention for the cuts. It would be assumed that other areas of his health were investigated. Nothing has been published other than the stitches.

To advocate the stoppage of the fight on the possibility of damage, that is not apparent after the event, is not boxing and/or fighting. The sport is high on risk. The risk payed off. The ref and ringside dr made the decision and saved a fight from ending prematurely.

Wallin has made a name for himself. A good name, he gave a good account of himself. Although I'm sure he would be happier if he had won - it would have been seriously disappointing for fight fans to see a fight stopped in such a manner when it was not necessary.

[jamesmcdonnell]

You're a joke.

I don't know you well enough to rightfully insult you for stating your opinion so I will take the high road and not retaliate. Next time I won't be so nice.
You're probably very young and haven't been taught any manners.

I'm 48 mate, as for manners, if you throw foolish opinions out there expect them to be treated with derision. As for being nice or not, up to you, I've got broad shoulders, nothing said on here will make me lose any sleep, so feel free.

[Ilya Muromets]

Ironbeard and Lazyboy - Good responses. Thanks. I'll peruse them more thoroughly later.

[ldlamb]

I’m glad I grew up watching boxing in an era where boxers were routinely allowed to fight through cuts as long as they weren’t taking massive punishment and we didn’t have discussion boards to have silly arguments about it.

[margaret thatcher]

You love discussion boards though

[ldlamb]

I do like discussion boards when they are used to analyze upcoming fights or talk about who someone should fight next.

But not 10 pages of nitpicking after the fact stuff that wouldn’t have even been an issue 40 years ago.

[Ilya Muromets]

That's the thing, when the adrenalin is flowing you can be very indifferent to injury. They are very careful about deep cuts by the eye in boxing, and the smaller cut on the eyelid also was dangerous, maybe even more dangerous, because the eyelid is just thin skin over the eyeball itself.

Is there an eye doctor in the house? May we have your input please?

There is an excellent thread over on British & Irish called “Cutsman 101.”

Thanks, Ironbeard. It is indeed, People who are in the business posting there. Here's the the link:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=233644

From that thread, exactly what I've been saying:

post by Ricky » 16 Sep 2019, 17:19

I'm more concerned by the work of the ringside doctor. The fight should've been stopped, but Furys the money guy marketed almost exclusively on his lineal nonsense. If Wallin had that cut they stop the fight.

[Ilya Muromets]

You are saying that there was no damage done to his eye but you don't really know that, nor do I, but he needed serious and urgent medical attention after the fight. Eye damage might make itself manifest later on. Many boxers suffer detached retinas. Sure Fury didn't want the fight stopped. Most fighters don't want the fight stopped even if their eyeball was almost hanging out and their brain was swelling up. Mago Abdusalomov didn't quit. That's what the doctors in attendance - or actors playing doctors as the case may be - are supposed to be there for. A conscientious corner too.

Yeah it was an exciting fight. I agree with your last sentence. But won't you admit that if cuts half as bad had happened to Wallin they would have stopped it? I think it should have been stopped and a second huge upset would have happened, an upset even far huger than the last one.

I'm not a medical dr.
My understanding is: A detached retina is not synonymous with a cut above the eye. It is a separate medical issue. Fury's wound was ugly. We must credit his cut-man as the wound looked worse than it behaved, in terms of blood flow.
His face was not ballooning up like more grotesque examples including Lebedev.

As for you question about Wallin, we can only guess. They may have stopped the fight but the context needs to be explored. Wallin was not a known quantity such as Fury, which includes Furys known resilience and skill level. Furthermore, Fury was performing well, dominating Wallin in the later rounds. It did not appear that he was adversely affected. I would understand the ref stopping the fight for Wallin for his own protection, however Fury did not need this protection.

Wallin a unknown fighter, a significant underdog, the smaller fighter and one who was eating clean punches consistently. Perhaps the fight would have been stopped on the possibility that he would be seriously hurt. That would be reasonable in my opinion - however it is still based on a possibility that he would be seriously hurt.

It was after all the refs and Judges discretion which allowed Fury to continue, their expertise enabled them to make the decision. It was the right decision for Fury as he ended up winning the fight and there was no indication his eye was damaged. The possibility that he would be seriously injured from the cut was reduced compared to Wallins circumstances.

Regardless of this all:
Fury received medical attention for the cuts. It would be assumed that other areas of his health were investigated. Nothing has been published other than the stitches.

To advocate the stoppage of the fight on the possibility of damage, that is not apparent after the event, is not boxing and/or fighting. The sport is high on risk. The risk payed off. The ref and ringside dr made the decision and saved a fight from ending prematurely.

Wallin has made a name for himself. A good name, he gave a good account of himself. Although I'm sure he would be happier if he had won - it would have been seriously disappointing for fight fans to see a fight stopped in such a manner when it was not necessary.

Well written and you make your argument very well, even though we disagree. I especially disagree with this sentence:

It was after all the refs and Judges discretion which allowed Fury to continue, their expertise enabled them to make the decision.

I am skeptical of the honesty and competence of many boxing refs and judges, especially in Las Vegas. They know who pays their salary and gets them, or doesn't get them, more spotlight gigs. I don't even know if a lot of these ringside doctors are really doctors.

[margaret thatcher]

I'd be curious though, if that cut doesn't warrant a stoppage, what cut does. Hard to think of many worse than that I've seen in boxing.

[lazboy]

I'd be curious though, if that cut doesn't warrant a stoppage, what cut does. Hard to think of many worse than that I've seen in boxing.

Personally I wasn't saying it didn't warrant a stoppage. Completely reasonable to stop the fight, the cut(s) were serious. However in my opinion the best case scenario played out (allowing the fight to continue) except it you are Wallin or a Fury hater. I also don't think it was bleeding as bad as some fights I have seen such as Badou Jack and Chavez Snr De la hoya although without question it was nasty looking.

[lazboy]

Well written and you make your argument very well, even though we disagree. I especially disagree with this sentence:

It was after all the refs and Judges discretion which allowed Fury to continue, their expertise enabled them to make the decision.

I am skeptical of the honesty and competence of many boxing refs and judges, especially in Las Vegas. They know who pays their salary and gets them, or doesn't get them, more spotlight gigs. I don't even know if a lot of these ringside doctors are really doctors.

Thank you. I'm happy to agree to disagree and never discuss this topic again. Ever.

[Bandog]

I don't know you well enough to rightfully insult you for stating your opinion so I will take the high road and not retaliate. Next time I won't be so nice.
You're probably very young and haven't been taught any manners.

I'm 48 mate, as for manners, if you throw foolish opinions out there expect them to be treated with derision. As for being nice or not, up to you, I've got broad shoulders, nothing said on here will make me lose any sleep, so feel free.

Obviously maturity doesn't necessarily come with age. I'm older than you, and have learned that if on a forum, dispute what another person says and not make personal attacks if you don't like or agree with what is said. Debate like an adult.

[ironbeard]

I'm 48 mate, as for manners, if you throw foolish opinions out there expect them to be treated with derision. As for being nice or not, up to you, I've got broad shoulders, nothing said on here will make me lose any sleep, so feel free.

Obviously maturity doesn't necessarily come with age. I'm older than you, and have learned that if on a forum, dispute what another person says and not make personal attacks if you don't like or agree with what is said. Debate like an adult.

Another fine thread turns into a Miss Manners & Rules detention class.

Fvckoff or get back on subject.

That was NOT the worst cut in history. Fury fought through it. It was not a life threatening injury, and wound mitigation has advanced enough that he will be back in the ring in the first half of 2020.

Wallin just could not finish the job.

Fury rose from the ashes on that Wilder 12th round KD. Give the man credit. It will be remembered as one of the iconic rounds of this era.

Fury’s jock-mite legions are another story.

I think Fury is overrated by his fan base but how about you give him some semblance of credit for guts and toughness? Many fighters would have had the fight stopped over the cut, mainly because they would be done, unable to deal with the situation the way Fury did.

[Ilya Muromets]

Well written and you make your argument very well, even though we disagree. I especially disagree with this sentence:

It was after all the refs and Judges discretion which allowed Fury to continue, their expertise enabled them to make the decision.

I am skeptical of the honesty and competence of many boxing refs and judges, especially in Las Vegas. They know who pays their salary and gets them, or doesn't get them, more spotlight gigs. I don't even know if a lot of these ringside doctors are really doctors.

Thank you. I'm happy to agree to disagree and never discuss this topic again. Ever.

You're quite welcome, and you don't ever have to discuss the subject again. You can discuss whatever you want to.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Wallin got A HEROES welcome when he landed back home.

[Bandog]

Fury, as much as I dislike him, should have had people around him smart enough to stop the fight right after it happened, and go to a no contest. If they had half a brain they would know the cut would get worse not better, as wide open as it was.
Fury is only 30 yrs old ffs. Stop the damn fight to prevent more damage. Common sense isn't so common anymore though.

[Bandog]

Obviously maturity doesn't necessarily come with age. I'm older than you, and have learned that if on a forum, dispute what another person says and not make personal attacks if you don't like or agree with what is said. Debate like an adult.

Another fine thread turns into a Miss Manners & Rules detention class.

Fvckoff or get back on subject.

That was NOT the worst cut in history. Fury fought through it. It was not a life threatening injury, and wound mitigation has advanced enough that he will be back in the ring in the first half of 2020.

Wallin just could not finish the job.

Fury rose from the ashes on that Wilder 12th round KD. Give the man credit. It will be remembered as one of the iconic rounds of this era.

Fury’s jock-mite legions are another story.

I think Fury is overrated by his fan base but how about you give him some semblance of credit for guts and toughness? Many fighters would have had the fight stopped over the cut, mainly because they would be done, unable to deal with the situation the way Fury did.

It was my intent to stay on the subject and debate like adults. Dumbasses need rules to follow and manners, or all decent posters will just leave, tire of the BS. But hey, thanks for the input.

[Ilya Muromets]

Wallin got A HEROES welcome when he landed back home.

https://roundbyroundboxing.com/otto-wal ... s-welcome/

https://fightnews.com/wallin-is-the-toa ... eden/55116

[sturm vogel]

If Fury didn't get cut the fight would have been shut out or knock out. Does anyone doubt that?

[margaret thatcher]

I thought he lost both rounds before he was cut