James Toney = Massively Overrated.

[lisavac]

He's a legend, He paid his dues and had a great career. He's getting old, but he can still give a young boxer hell.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Great to see James name in this forum. Haven't had a thread on him in forever. Well Done.

[Ambling Alp]

Yes, but Peter is awful. Not much of an accomplisment in beating him.

Peter IS awful. Peter was top 2-3 in the division. At that time he only had one loss and that was to Wlad. who he gave plenty of trouble to. You can't base Toney's performance against that Sam Peter on anything you see of Peter today. That was a good fight and many many people thought Toney would absolutely get clobbered.

No, he was awful then too. True he scored some knockdowns against china-chin Klitschko, but he still lost pretty convincingly. He was sloppy then too.

[gilgamesh]

Toney probably would have slaughtered Tiberi had their been a rematch, but regardless of that, there's no way Toney won there fight. I had Tiberi winning by 6 pts. Also, I had Terry McGroom beating Toney by 2pts at Cruiserweight.

Tiberi winning by 6 points??? No way, even if you thought he won the fight it was at least reasonably close. Tiberi didn't win by 6 points no way in hell. You've been reading too much stuff exaggerating the robbery of that fight. Or you were listening to the commentators during the fight and not watching it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Toney probably would have slaughtered Tiberi had their been a rematch, but regardless of that, there's no way Toney won there fight. I had Tiberi winning by 6 pts. Also, I had Terry McGroom beating Toney by 2pts at Cruiserweight.

Tiberi winning by 6 points??? No way, even if you thought he won the fight it was at least reasonably close. Tiberi didn't win by 6 points no way in hell. You've been reading too much stuff exaggerating the robbery of that fight. Or you were listening to the commentators during the fight and not watching it.

I had it 9-3 as well, that fight wasn't close. I thought Reggie Johnson edged James too. I agree with you on the Griffin fights.

[gilgamesh]

I'll rewatch the Toney-Tiberi fight just to see if it strikes me differently. I've only watched it once. I never saw the Reggie Johnson fight, I had somebody tell me once that Johnson dropped Toney harder than anyone else ever had or ever has since.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'll rewatch the Toney-Tiberi fight just to see if it strikes me differently. I've only watched it once. I never saw the Reggie Johnson fight, I had somebody tell me once that Johnson dropped Toney harder than anyone else ever had or ever has since.

It was definitely a legit knock down. That was an excellent fight.

[Seamus]

I watched Toney v Tiberi on live TV and scored it. I stand by what I said. After the bout the crowd chanted "BS BS BS". Toney looked pretty sluggish in that fight.

Can't remember, but I think I might have had him beating Johnson by a point.

[bada$$]

Nice post, I'm not a fan of the man but he was a hell of a fighter. A notch or two below Jones & hopkins

x2

totally agree. one of the best of our time

[alexpaterson]

I don't think he's overrated at all, he beat the highly regarded (at the time) Michael Nunn, beat Mike McCallum all at a weight he was drained at. When he moved up he destroyed Iran Barkley, albeit not a top class fighter but the way he beat him was really classy. He holds wins over Vassily Jirov (undefeated and again highly regarded), you could make an argument for him beating Sam Peter and Hasim Rahmen, he's won titles at 3 weights. His feet were ridiculously slow but he made up for it with his slickness and defence skill mixed with great ring generalship.

[oliverfennell]

Montel gave RJJ alllllll he could handle in their first fight before it was stopped on a stupid DQ.

So you condone winding up a huge power shot and unleashing it on a floored opponent well after he'd clearly been put down? This was not a case of "the punch was already on its way". It was deliberate.

[oliverfennell]

I am not sure how you overrate a guy who has 72 career wins in this day and age. If it is so easy please show me someone else who is even close to that.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

[keithmoonhangover]

I am not sure how you overrate a guy who has 72 career wins in this day and age. If it is so easy please show me someone else who is even close to that.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

[keithmoonhangover]

I am not sure how you overrate a guy who has 72 career wins in this day and age. If it is so easy please show me someone else who is even close to that.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

[keithmoonhangover]

I am not sure how you overrate a guy who has 72 career wins in this day and age. If it is so easy please show me someone else who is even close to that.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

Almost

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

[Jacopodb]

James Toney showed one of the most beautiful techniques I've ever seen.

[elmersalsa]

James "Lights Out" Toney is one of my favorite boxers, but he is a borderline top 100 pound per pound all time great in my view. Maybe he is a top 100 great fighter to some. Great boxing career, though.

[DrDuke]

Toney is quite overrated indeed. And I actually was overrating him myself. He has a solid resume, but it's actually worse in reality, than it is on paper. Well, it has already been pointed out well in this topic including the opening post of it. Toney had two stellar performances: schooling wins over Barkley and Jirov. Those were true masterpieces. Toney obviously had talent and skills, but he had his drawbacks, which made him less great, than he could have become. And that's only his fault. Yet his talking/entertaining abilities were a kind of an aid to be rated higher.

[gilgamesh]

I just can't understand how Toney is so highly rated by members of the press.

He was very lucky to get the decision against:

Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum I (a draw) and was flat out beaten by Dave Tiberi.

He barely put a glove on Roy Jones Jnr, lost to Montell Griffin TWICE and also got beat by the legend that is Drake Thadzi.

Yes he beat Michael Nunn and Vassily Jirov. Both, very impressive results I have to admit.

He even had to cheat to beat John Ruiz.

For me his mouth and bad attitude cloud a lot of people's judgement

He was robbed in both Montell Griffin fights in my opinion. The 2nd fight especially.

Yeah the Tiberi and Thadzi fights are embarrassing for him. The Nunn and Jirov wins are highlight triumphs. Stopping Holyfield was still a reasonably significant win. He fought to a draw with Rahman.

Good fighter. I don't know that he's massively overrated exactly. Maybe as a Middleweight, but as a general fighter I think people are usually realistic about which fighters would trouble him, and which he'd shine against.

[Onetimeonly]

I just can't understand how Toney is so highly rated by members of the press.

He was very lucky to get the decision against:

Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum I (a draw) and was flat out beaten by Dave Tiberi.

He barely put a glove on Roy Jones Jnr, lost to Montell Griffin TWICE and also got beat by the legend that is Drake Thadzi.

Yes he beat Michael Nunn and Vassily Jirov. Both, very impressive results I have to admit.

He even had to cheat to beat John Ruiz.

For me his mouth and bad attitude cloud a lot of people's judgement

He was robbed in both Montell Griffin fights in my opinion. The 2nd fight especially.

Yeah the Tiberi and Thadzi fights are embarrassing for him. The Nunn and Jirov wins are highlight triumphs. Stopping Holyfield was still a reasonably significant win. He fought to a draw with Rahman.

Good fighter. I don't know that he's massively overrated exactly. Maybe as a Middleweight, but as a general fighter I think people are usually realistic about which fighters would trouble him, and which he'd shine against.

Rrahman clearly won that fight.

[oogiebe]

He was robbed in both Montell Griffin fights in my opinion. The 2nd fight especially.

Yeah the Tiberi and Thadzi fights are embarrassing for him. The Nunn and Jirov wins are highlight triumphs. Stopping Holyfield was still a reasonably significant win. He fought to a draw with Rahman.

Good fighter. I don't know that he's massively overrated exactly. Maybe as a Middleweight, but as a general fighter I think people are usually realistic about which fighters would trouble him, and which he'd shine against.

Rrahman clearly won that fight.

Yyup hhe ddid.

[gilgamesh]

He was robbed in both Montell Griffin fights in my opinion. The 2nd fight especially.

Yeah the Tiberi and Thadzi fights are embarrassing for him. The Nunn and Jirov wins are highlight triumphs. Stopping Holyfield was still a reasonably significant win. He fought to a draw with Rahman.

Good fighter. I don't know that he's massively overrated exactly. Maybe as a Middleweight, but as a general fighter I think people are usually realistic about which fighters would trouble him, and which he'd shine against.

Rrahman clearly won that fight.

Yeah I had it for Rahman, it was reasonably close though.

[Onetimeonly]

It was clear enough not to list it as an accomplishment.

[DrDuke]

I agree with Rahman being robbed. And Holyfield win was pointless. It's like Lebedev winning Toney himself.

[gilgamesh]

I agree with Rahman being robbed. And Holyfield win was pointless. It's like Lebedev winning Toney himself.

Hey Holyfield still had wins over Lou Savarese and Frans Botha in him! You take that back!