Max Baer VS Nicolay Valuev

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 04 Jun 2006, 19:21

I saw the Carnera Thread and it gave me an idea......The question assumes the 3 knockdown rule is waived.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 05 Jun 2006, 01:57

..there's that damn irrelavent "guy in his debut" automatic reponse from dec every time max baer is mentioned.

..as for the number of knockdowns..the question should be how many times could valuev get up??? my guess would be anywhere from not once to three at the most. don't know enough about him at this point to knoiw if he was as game as carnera..or as inept.

barry · Post by **barry** » 05 Jun 2006, 02:57

>>>..there's that damn irrelavent "guy in his debut" automatic reponse from dec every time max baer is mentioned<<<

And I have yet to see any actual proof to even back the claim. Someone said that Mike DeLisa stated that it was correct, and I know that Mike entered that bout into the database, but that is all I have ever heard and I have never seen any actual proof from Dec, and though I have nothing but respect for Mike, I have read several different newspaper accounts of the fight, which I will gladly send to anyone that might think different, that state that it was Buddy Baer who fought Art Oliver, the fighter that Decagon keeps claiming, and the reports state that Buddy knocked Oliver out...so the claim does not hold much weight unless there is some actual proof to back it up, which has not been presented! The Chicago Times states that Oliver beat Baer a wekk after the bout happened, but they did not have anyone covering the fight, nor did they run the day after account of the fight, so that account is bogus compared to day after reports that state Buddy Baer knocked out Oliver!

But then again...anyone who thinks that Valuev is, or should be considered along with Baer, well they have a lot of learning to do, but then again that's something that I do not have to tell anyone!

Also, for the record, Art Oliver was the American Olympic Golden Gloves Champion as an Amateur, so even if the various newspaper reports that I have read are incorrect and the claim does turn out to be true, it's not like Oliver was some fat heavyweight of today, who had no experience at all!

barry · Post by **barry** » 05 Jun 2006, 03:42

And lets also bring to light this fact, that if it turns out to be true, which as has been said by me is very questionable, Max Baer was currently right in the middle of a barnstorming tour across North America where he was fighting in a new city almost every other day. To say that he had every right to have an off night would be an understatement considering that he had traveled 1000s of miles the previous four months before the fight in question, but if you want to still look at it like he lost to some clueless, non-experienced fighter making his pro debut, well that’s your right to do, but don't be surprised, or act offended when people say your completely full of shit about it!

barry · Post by **barry** » 05 Jun 2006, 04:24

I’d like to have gotten this all in one post, but things keep coming to me and I’d really like to shut this ridiculous claim down, or at least present it for exactly what it was…which it is nothing really, certainly nothing to hinder Baer’s place in history and certainly not the outrageous loss that Decagon continues to try to make it out to be!

So also, along with the other truths I have presented, not only was Baer's record, for the less than five total months of 1936 that he fought, 24-1-0 (17 KO), but he also fought several exhibitions and all of this occurred after June 15, 1936! Baer was fighting a regulation bout, or an exhibition bout nearly ever day during the less than four months that he fought in 1936 before the “supposed” Oliver bout. Would a loss to a young, hungry golden gloves fighter looking to make a name for himself be such a surprise with that kind of travel schedule? I don't know what you guys think, but if the claim does turn out to be true, which is still not certain...well I think that it is not only excusable that he lost the bout, but a very likely outcome for any fighter that would have undertook a schedule like that in such a short amount of time and the fact that he only lost once is pretty remarkable.

Think about it…in less than four months he fought a total of anywhere from 50 to 100 bouts, including exhibitions. In those three months leading up to the bout with Oliver, if in fact he did fight Oliver, Baer’s travel log looked something like this…Salt Lake City, UT, Boise, ID, Pocatello, ID, Tyler, TX, San Antonio, TX, Dallas, TX, Oklahoma City, OK, Tulsa, OK, Ada, OK, Ogden, UT, Vancouver, BC, Canada Marshfield, OR, Portland, OR, Lewiston, ID, Coeur d'Alene, ID, Twin Falls, ID, Provo, UT, Casper, WY, Des Moines, IA, Sheldon, IA, Rock Springs, WY, Keokuk, IA, Evansville, IL; and this is not including all the locales for the exhibition bouts he had! So what do you guys think…if the bout actually did happen, is it something that should in any way tarnish the career of Baer? I certainly say no way in hell…what do you think?

Oh yeah…to answer the question…Jaclem hit it right…it wouldn’t be a question of how many times could Baer knock Valuev down, but instead…how many times could Valuev get up? I would say two to four, and that’s being generous…even if Baer lost to a golden gloves champion making his pro debut!

I sent Mike an email to see what his source for the bout is. He had to go out of the country, so it might be a few days before he responds, but well get to the bottom of it, but as I said before...it doesn't make a difference if Baer did lose the fight...it is of no consequence to Baer's standing!

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 05 Jun 2006, 10:07

BoxBuzz wrote:I saw the Carnera Thread and it gave me an idea......The question assumes the 3 knockdown rule is waived.

I saw the title and started to get pissed, then I saw "Box Buzz" as author and couldn't believe my eyes, and then...

Excellent joke

barry · Post by **barry** » 05 Jun 2006, 11:48

Mike said that he got the result from local reports and also that he thought Ring covered it as well, so I will agree that Baer lost to Oliver making his pro debut, but as I spoke plenty about earlier, it certainly does not matter as Oliver was not only a very accomplished amateur heavyweight, but also Baer, due to the hectic schedule of fighting almost ever day for the three months leading up to the bout, he is granted an off night...the Oliver loss has no bearing whatsoever on Baer's career, or his standing in history!

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:12

you have to figure...Baer fought I believe 24 times in three months or so. despite most of the opponents being mediocre opposition, Baer has done an incredible feat that I doubt most Heavyweights could do.

I agree with barry, your bound to have an off night, when you have a fight schedule like that.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:17

Lets try booking Nikolay on a similar tour if possible and see how he fares. Who's going to make the call to Don?

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:45

Well Valuev says how he will "conquer America", and supposedly be matched here in the USA in the fall...so why not a 10-round exhibition tour or something?

Have grade D level fighters face Valuev in "preperation" for his so-called next title defense

I say this "tank town" tour should have:

1.) Danny Wofford
2.) Eric Butterbean Esch
3.) Tony TNT Tubbs
4.) Louis Monaco
5.) Marcus Rhode
6.) Mitch Green
7.) Joe Hipp
8.) Julius Long
9.) Marcellus Brown

Hell I can think of a whole laundry list of has-beens and never was's 8)

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 05 Jun 2006, 23:16

IrishRufusMurphy wrote: 1.) Danny Wofford
2.) Eric Butterbean Esch
3.) Tony TNT Tubbs
4.) Louis Monaco
5.) Marcus Rhode
6.) Mitch Green
7.) Joe Hipp
8.) Julius Long
9.) Marcellus Brown

The Bumsquad of boxing, the sad part is that the heavyweight division is pretty thin right now......

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Jun 2006, 23:26

Yes the division is bad, but in my opinion, it was only made that way because of Don King. If the fighters would actually fight and actually get into shape and face really important fights, the division would be better.

Best fight I could think of to make at this time would be

Wlad Klitschko vs 'The White Wolf' IBF/WBO unifier

and then

Wlad Klitschko vs Hasim Rahman (if he gets passed Maskeav) WBC/IBF/WBO

There is little interest in the WBA atm...maybe when Valuev fights more in the USA he could become more noticed...but let's face it the WBA title is reverting back to the 1980's where it was passed back and forth to bum after bum.

It's pretty sad considering guys like Tex Cobb, Chuck Wepner, Charlie Polite, Dino Dennis, Scott LeDoux prolly would clean house nowadays if only they were in their primes.

HeadBasher · Post by **HeadBasher** » 06 Jun 2006, 15:32

bear ko rd 1

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 06 Jun 2006, 17:04

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Well Valuev says how he will "conquer America", and supposedly be matched here in the USA in the fall...so why not a 10-round exhibition tour or something?

Have grade D level fighters face Valuev in "preperation" for his so-called next title defense

I say this "tank town" tour should have:

1.) Danny Wofford
2.) Eric Butterbean Esch
3.) Tony TNT Tubbs
4.) Louis Monaco
5.) Marcus Rhode
6.) Mitch Green
7.) Joe Hipp
8.) Julius Long
9.) Marcellus Brown

Hell I can think of a whole laundry list of has-beens and never was's 8)

No Mike Tyson on your list?

zojo · Post by **zojo** » 10 Jun 2006, 16:41

Decagon wrote:Heck, if Max Baer can lose to a guy making his pro debut, he can lose to Valuev.

Set that guy up with a match against Johnny Bombs. Both of those guys must be the only two pro debuters to beat former champs.

Max Baer VS Nicolay Valuev

How Many Times Can Max Knock Down Valuev in 12 Rounds?

Max Baer VS Nicolay Valuev

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