James Toney = Massively Overrated.

[gilgamesh]

It was clear enough not to list it as an accomplishment.

Hey the OP listed his "losses" to Montell Griffin as points against him.

He beat Montell in the 2nd fight more clearly than Rahman beat him. That's for goddamn sure.

1st fight with Montell was closer, but still a Toney win.

[Onetimeonly]

It was clear enough not to list it as an accomplishment.

Hey the OP listed his "losses" to Montell Griffin as points against him.

He beat Montell in the 2nd fight more clearly than Rahman beat him. That's for goddamn sure.

1st fight with Montell was closer, but still a Toney win.

That was 9 years ago!!!!!!

[gilgamesh]

Hey the OP listed his "losses" to Montell Griffin as points against him.

He beat Montell in the 2nd fight more clearly than Rahman beat him. That's for goddamn sure.

1st fight with Montell was closer, but still a Toney win.

That was 9 years ago!!!!!!

I don't check the dates on these goddamn threads. When it's up at the top it's current.

Now that you mention it. I notice I already said my piece on this 9 years ago

So yeah...

[Onetimeonly]

That was 9 years ago!!!!!!

I don't check the dates on these goddamn threads. When it's up at the top it's current.

Point remains, that fight was out of place in your post. He was wrong 3,000 days ago, you were wrong yesterday.

[gilgamesh]

I don't check the dates on these goddamn threads. When it's up at the top it's current.

Point remains, that fight was out of place in your post. He was wrong 3,000 days ago, you were wrong yesterday.

What did I say that was wrong?

[Onetimeonly]

Point remains, that fight was out of place in your post. He was wrong 3,000 days ago, you were wrong yesterday.

What did I say that was wrong?

You listed that draw as a positive. Just looking back 9 years ago you had a nice post with one error that needed fixing. That's a high average.

[gilgamesh]

What did I say that was wrong?

You listed that draw as a positive. Just looking back 9 years ago you had a nice post with one error that needed fixing. That's a high average.

It's not exactly a negative. On paper at least.

[Onetimeonly]

You listed that draw as a positive. Just looking back 9 years ago you had a nice post with one error that needed fixing. That's a high average.

It's not exactly a negative. On paper at least.

Jesus dude,.

[gilgamesh]

It's not exactly a negative. On paper at least.

Jesus dude,.

I acknowledged I thought he lost the fight. What do you want asshole?

[Onetimeonly]

I'll give you one thing, it was much closer than the tiberi fight you were saying was razor close. Your errors have improved.

[chrisjs1985]

Toney is one of those fighters who I find either gets massively overrated or massively underrated with very few getting him right. I guess for some it depends on how you score his fights. His detractors will obviously say he lost to Tiberi, but probably throw in Johnson, agree with both Griffin fights and maybe act like McCallum was wronged in one of their fights. They'll also agree with the first Peter verdict. Those people obviously underrated Toney. Then you've got the over zealous fans who'll claim he won every close fight he ever had and totally excuse the Jones fight on weight loss, the Thadzi loss etc;

Toney was great. He had a ton of skill, lots of tricks and his resume is very deep and the longevity and the fact he was a beast at middleweight who later kicked ass at cruiserweight and was a very good heavyweight points to him being a special fighter. Inconsistent, yes, but he accomplished a lot and did it with such style that it's hard to deny him as one of the greatest boxers of the last 30 years at least.

[Onetimeonly]

Definitely a special fighter, he was no middleweight beast though. Super middle.

[Nightmare Roy]

A fighter who was avoided by prime Benn and Eubank was probably pretty good.

[Seamus]

I thought he lost the second fight fight with Montell Griffin. I had it 117-113. Against Drake Thadzi he was flat out embarrassing.

[chrisjs1985]

Definitely a special fighter, he was no middleweight beast though. Super middle.

Nunn, McCallum I & II, Johnson is pretty damn impressive even though there's the Tiberi debacle in there.

[littlepug]

Damn good fighter, great skills, chin and nice and spiteful like most top fighters are, just lacked discipline at times which cost him fights, probably would always have lost to Jones but was capable of beating everyone else that got a decision over him.

[Onetimeonly]

Definitely a special fighter, he was no middleweight beast though. Super middle.

Nunn, McCallum I & II, Johnson is pretty damn impressive even though there's the Tiberi debacle in there.

He was certainly good, but you could argue he lost more RDS than he won against contenders. Not exactly Mr middle

[Controversial]

The Tiberi fight isn't a true reflection on Toney as a fighter. He wasn't the most disciplined of guys and Tiberi wasn't given any chance. A classic case of the underdog wanting it more, his chance of winning the lottery, and the favourite not taking it as serious as he should as he didn't think his opponent could beat him. Had they fought again I think Toney would have performed much better. Anyone can perform badly against lesser opposition and have off nights, it happens to them all, look at Duran vs Laing.

[Ambling Alp II]

He had a long career and had his ups and downs. If you want to say he would have beat Tiberi in a rematch, you could also argue that he would lost to Nunn in a rematch. Who knows. He wasn't up for the fight is a "my dog ate my homework" excuse.

His detractors point out the Tiberi fight and other fights where he was less than stellar. His fans point out the wins and how he was old school. All the fights where he and his opponent were close to their primes counts.. The good and the bad. The good performances should be weighed against the bad.

[gilgamesh]

He had a long career and had his ups and downs. If you want to say he would have beat Tiberi in a rematch, you could also argue that he would lost to Nunn in a rematch. Who knows. He wasn't up for the fight is a "my dog ate my homework" excuse.

His detractors point out the Tiberi fight and other fights where he was less than stellar. His fans point out the wins and how he was old school. All the fights where he and his opponent were close to their primes counts.. The good and the bad. The good performances should be weighed against the bad.

Nunn was never as good ever again as he was going into the Toney fight. So I doubt very much he would've won the rematch.

We actually should've gotten Toney vs Tiberi 2. Shame we didn't.

[Controversial]

He had a long career and had his ups and downs. If you want to say he would have beat Tiberi in a rematch, you could also argue that he would lost to Nunn in a rematch. Who knows. He wasn't up for the fight is a "my dog ate my homework" excuse.

His detractors point out the Tiberi fight and other fights where he was less than stellar. His fans point out the wins and how he was old school. All the fights where he and his opponent were close to their primes counts.. The good and the bad. The good performances should be weighed against the bad.

Yes of course but with respect to Tiberi he done nothing in his career to show how great he was. Toney proved himself over his career, Tiberi had one good fight. We can all make excuses for any fighter but that fight to me looks like a prepared and up for it fighter against someone who wasn’t. In these scenarios upsets happen.

[Onetimeonly]

Tiberi threw a lot of punches and ate toneys counters well. I don't see any reason why he couldn't do well in a rematch. That was the most lopsided fight of note toney was involved in at middle, he never beat anyone as convincingly as Dave beat him there.

[Ambling Alp II]

He had a long career and had his ups and downs. If you want to say he would have beat Tiberi in a rematch, you could also argue that he would lost to Nunn in a rematch. Who knows. He wasn't up for the fight is a "my dog ate my homework" excuse.

His detractors point out the Tiberi fight and other fights where he was less than stellar. His fans point out the wins and how he was old school. All the fights where he and his opponent were close to their primes counts.. The good and the bad. The good performances should be weighed against the bad.

Nunn was never as good ever again as he was going into the Toney fight. So I doubt very much he would've won the rematch.

We actually should've gotten Toney vs Tiberi 2. Shame we didn't.

Who knows. I think it's more likely that Nunn would have won a rematch against Toney than Tiberi would have.

[Ambling Alp II]

He had a long career and had his ups and downs. If you want to say he would have beat Tiberi in a rematch, you could also argue that he would lost to Nunn in a rematch. Who knows. He wasn't up for the fight is a "my dog ate my homework" excuse.

His detractors point out the Tiberi fight and other fights where he was less than stellar. His fans point out the wins and how he was old school. All the fights where he and his opponent were close to their primes counts.. The good and the bad. The good performances should be weighed against the bad.

Yes of course but with respect to Tiberi he done nothing in his career to show how great he was. Toney proved himself over his career, Tiberi had one good fight. We can all make excuses for any fighter but that fight to me looks like a prepared and up for it fighter against someone who wasn’t. In these scenarios upsets happen.

These upsets do occasionally happen. When they do, they count against the fighter it happened to. You can't just blow them off. Consistency counts.

[Controversial]

Yes of course but with respect to Tiberi he done nothing in his career to show how great he was. Toney proved himself over his career, Tiberi had one good fight. We can all make excuses for any fighter but that fight to me looks like a prepared and up for it fighter against someone who wasn’t. In these scenarios upsets happen.

These upsets do occasionally happen. When they do, they count against the fighter it happened to. You can't just blow them off. Consistency counts.

I’m not blowing it off but Toney proved himself to be the better fighter throughout his career, so he was more consistent. Tiberi had one good night which happens, I’m not so sure the rematch would have been the same that’s all I’m saying. Otherwise we are saying Tiberi was a better fighter than Toney which is like saying Laing was a better fighter than Duran.