Muhammed Ali v. Henry Cooper - torn glove story a myth?

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 05:15

I just downloaded ali v. cooper and just seen that their was no glove inccident as i was lead to belive by many boxing magazines and books i've read.

Was the glove inccident, edited out from the video and the commentary to back up that their was no delaly in the fight added?

I was lead to belive that ali got extra time in the corner because he had a ripped glove and had to replace the glove. of course as i've read it and heard it, angelo dundee himself admits to having cut the glove to get extra time so ali can get his marbles back and this bought him the extra time needed.

I ask, is the glove story true or not? Please respond, thank you.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Jun 2006, 07:41

It was a true account. Ali was being cocky, had cooper in trouble, and cooper caught him flush. Dundee saved his fighter by making the tear bigger.

Imagine if Dundee hadn't of. The world may have never really known Ali.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 05 Jun 2006, 07:53

Terence wrote: If Ali can get up from a harder hook from Frazier then why speculate that our 'Enry (TM) would have KO'd him?

I think Ali was in much deeper trouble from the Cooper hook than Joe’s hook in the 15th. Actually, I think Ali was in more trouble in the 11th against Frazier than from the 15th rd KD punch. Fortunately for Ali, the Cooper KD occurred near the end of the round so Ali had a chance to recover.

As far as I recall, there was only a slight delay due to torn glove incident in the fight. I don’t really think it had any affect on the outcome, but someone please correct me if they have actually timed the break between rounds in this fight.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 05 Jun 2006, 08:01

I dunno watching a clip of the fight it looked like the break between the rounds was only a few seconds longer than usual. As far as the legend of some official having to go and get a new glove and a delay of 5 min. It doesnt look like anything like this happens. Maybe the tape of the fight has this part cut out . Some of this could be embelished a bit. Dundee has more stories than The Empire State Building.

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 05 Jun 2006, 11:46

expug wrote:I dunno watching a clip of the fight it looked like the break between the rounds was only a few seconds longer than usual. As far as the legend of some official having to go and get a new glove and a delay of 5 min. It doesnt look like anything like this happens. Maybe the tape of the fight has this part cut out . Some of this could be embelished a bit. Dundee has more stories than The Empire State Building.

The delay was a matter of seconds. The press and/or Cooper magnified it over the years to the point where many people thought it was minutes. It wasn't.

Ali was quite badly shaken, though I think worst case he'd have just got on his bicycle till his head cleared. Did the extra few seconds make any real difference to the outcome...I don't think so.

J

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 05 Jun 2006, 11:53

Terence wrote: Wasn't Cooper offered a fight with-then heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston only for Cooper's manager to turn it down?

Jim Wicks was asked if he would let Cooper fight Liston and responded "I wouldn't let Henry walk down the same street as Liston let alone get into the same ring!"

I met Cooper a few years ago (he was guest speaker at a company do) and asked him about fighting Liston - mentioning the Jim Wicks comment. His response was along tne lines of "Liston was an animal in the ring". I can't recall if he went on to say he'd have KO'd Sonny withg his 'ammer, but to my mind he'd have been obliterated!
J

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 05 Jun 2006, 12:52

Cooper I think would have lost to Liston, as much as I love old 'Enry, but I do believe he would have got some great shots in and would sure as hell last longer than what Patterson did.

Liston had an awesome jab and with Cooper's ability to cut, I prolly would think a TKO would be a better assumption.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:40

The time between the 4th and 5th round was little more than 63 seconds.

The glove was torn in the fourth, Dundee brought this to the attention of the ref but the gloves were never changed.

john2345 · Post by **john2345** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:49

KOJOE90 wrote:The time between the 4th and 5th round was little more than 63 seconds.

The glove was torn in the fourth, Dundee brought this to the attention of the ref but the gloves were never changed.

I'm operating purely from memory here but I seem to recall the radio commentary suggested that Angelo was calling for the glove to be changed, thereby buying a lot more time, but the referee waved it on.

J

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:54

The story is a myth. There was a tear but there was no extra time allowed. I have the unedited film of the fight as well as the ringside account. The ringside account doesnt even mention the tear and the film has no discernable extra time in between rounds.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 05 Jun 2006, 14:05

Pictures from both fights.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/sport/boxin ... cooper.jpg

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/boxing-ne ... ooper5.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/580000/im ... ali300.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/featur ... cooper.jpg

http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/l ... 227930.jpg

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Jun 2006, 15:51

Anyone have a color shot of Cooper from that fight? Black and white would do. I'm looking for a certain all time great pic of him with Blood streaming on his face similar to that second to the last shot. I have been looking for this pic for a year. I want it for my screen saver. I know it exists.....Any help would be appreciated.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 05 Jun 2006, 16:43

you are one sorry mutha

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 17:03

klompton wrote:The story is a myth. There was a tear but there was no extra time allowed. I have the unedited film of the fight as well as the ringside account. The ringside account doesnt even mention the tear and the film has no discernable extra time in between rounds.

the video i downloaded yesterday seems like it was edited which is why im questioning the video, and ali some how comes out with brand new energy and attacks cooper like never before in the bought as if he did get extra time.

it just doesn't make sense if many article i've read and from ali's book -a few of them- account the glove inccident. and as i've said the video to me looks edited and ali comes out with great energy instead of trying to recover. it just seems odd.

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 17:03

harrygreb wrote:you are one sorry mutha

back to you buddy

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 17:05

reminds me of this hbo special i seen a few weeks ago when a comedian talked about myths turning into facts because if the myth get told enough then it becomes a fact or some shit along those lines

pound per pound · Post by **pound per pound** » 05 Jun 2006, 19:19

The shocking truth is Angelo Dundee said on interview that three to four minutes passed between rounds. The interview was shown on EPSN Classic during an Ali marathon. Dundee says a person was sent back to find spare gloves in the dressing room, and none were found, so they used the gloves they had.

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 19:27

pound per pound wrote:The shocking truth is Angelo Dundee said on interview that three to four minutes passed between rounds. The interview was shown on EPSN Classic during an Ali marathon. Dundee says a person was sent back to find spare gloves in the dressing room, and none were found, so they used the gloves they had.

Thank you!

You gave credability back to sport writers and boxing historians alike.

I knew this was true. Cause i also remember dundee telling the story. Thanks.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Jun 2006, 20:21

Angelo is old....Memory problems maybe?

ferocity · Post by **ferocity** » 05 Jun 2006, 22:19

ali came out way too fresh for a fighter that was almost ko'd! only 1 minute nope don't buy and its been told many times over that dundee gained some time with the whole glove inccident

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 06 Jun 2006, 01:13

ferocity wrote:ali came out way too fresh for a fighter that was almost ko'd! only 1 minute nope don't buy and its been told many times over that dundee gained some time with the whole glove inccident

You'll be waiting a long time to find a version that has an interval of more than 65 seconds because that is how long it lasted.

Once again we enter The Twilight Zone.

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 06 Jun 2006, 04:46

See if you can find any next day newspaper reports or Ring or Boxing News reports of the fight that mention a long interval. Unless the entire assembled press missed it - it didn't happen.

In Henry Cooper's recent biography he also came clean about it and said it was a load of bollocks and the round only overran by several seconds.

but let's not let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?

Bladder · Post by **Bladder** » 06 Jun 2006, 04:49

anyway, I don't care but where the smeg is our super-historian bitch who can give the final word on this?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 06 Jun 2006, 12:45

BoxBuzz wrote:Anyone have a color shot of Cooper from that fight? Black and white would do. I'm looking for a certain all time great pic of him with Blood streaming on his face similar to that second to the last shot. I have been looking for this pic for a year. I want it for my screen saver. I know it exists.....Any help would be appreciated.

Best I can do for you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/580000/im ... ood150.jpg

As PP Arnold sang "The first cut is the deepest"

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Jun 2006, 19:15

Well I'll have to sew into a collage of the good the bad and the ugly. Much obliged!

Muhammed Ali v. Henry Cooper - torn glove story a myth?

Muhammed Ali v. Henry Cooper - torn glove story a myth?

Shocking truth

Re: Shocking truth