When Should Ali Have Retired?

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 10 Oct 2019, 09:32

A) After The Rumble in the Jungle
B) After The Thrilla in Manila
C) After Spinks 2
D) When he did, he did it his way

JWP · Post by **JWP** » 10 Oct 2019, 09:38

31st of October 1974.

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 10 Oct 2019, 09:49

JWP wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 09:38 31st of October 1974.

Did you vote?

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 10 Oct 2019, 09:51

After Frazier III. Would have been a fantasic ending to a legendary career and he might have kept his health.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 10 Oct 2019, 10:21

If he retired after the Shavers fight his record would have been 55-2 (37KOs) with both defeats avenged.

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 10 Oct 2019, 10:55

Controversial wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:21 If he retired after the second Shavers fight his record would have been 52-2 (37KOs) with both defeats avenged.

I thought of putting after Shavers in as an option. Perhaps I should have.

fanman · Post by **fanman** » 10 Oct 2019, 12:45

Controversial wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:21 If he retired after the second Shavers fight his record would have been 55-2 (37KOs) with both defeats avenged.

that would have been a pretty awesome record.
for his health the sooner would have been the better. even the frazier 1 fight did damage. so for his health he shouldn't have come back in the 70's.
for legacy. he didn't add anything much after the thriller in manilla.
for the ultimate high point, the rumble in the jungle would have been best.
certainly the spinks rematch was the last win, and the last 2 fights were painful.

probably should have stayed retired after spinks 2 to be fair, as nothing good happened thereafter.

DrDuke · Post by **DrDuke** » 10 Oct 2019, 12:48

Ideally after Manila. But it's agruable looking at the different sides of this option. While after Spinks 2 is a 100% option, because his following fights were completely unnecessary.

SteveO · Post by **SteveO** » 10 Oct 2019, 14:44

Controversial wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:21 If he retired after the second Shavers fight his record would have been 55-2 (37KOs) with both defeats avenged.

After the 'Thrilla In Manila' would have been a perfect ending to his brilliant career.
Failing that, he should have stayed retired after the second Spinks fight when he became the first ever 3 time world heavyweight champion - what a legacy. (He is still the only 3 time Lineal world heavyweight champion).
His record at that point would have been a very respectable 56-3 with all three defeats avenged.

Onetimeonly · Post by **Onetimeonly** » 10 Oct 2019, 16:24

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:55
Controversial wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:21 If he retired after the second Shavers fight his record would have been 52-2 (37KOs) with both defeats avenged.
I thought of putting after Shavers in as an option. Perhaps I should have.

Certainly not after the "second" shavers fight. Though perhaps I'm misunderstanding controversial again.

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 10 Oct 2019, 16:40

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 16:24
Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 10:55

I thought of putting after Shavers in as an option. Perhaps I should have.
Certainly not after the "second" shavers fight. Though perhaps I'm misunderstanding controversial again.

Someone is very confused.

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 10 Oct 2019, 19:50

Ali-Shavers 2 was very controversial. Sorry couldn't resist.

sweetsci · Post by **sweetsci** » 10 Oct 2019, 21:29

Tony1244 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 19:50 Ali-Shavers 2 was very controversial. Sorry couldn't resist.

It's a little-known classic.

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 11 Oct 2019, 02:12

Sorry my bad, Ali and Shavers only fought once, I meant after the Shavers fight, must’ve got confused with Shavers fighting Holmes twice

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 11 Oct 2019, 08:56

Interesting isn't it.

Retire after Folley in 1967, a mercurial talent who walked away for personal reasons aged 25, having defended the title 9 times.

Retire after Frazier 1 in 1970, a great champion who couldn't recapture the dazzling form he had prior to a lengthy lay-off.

Retire at any point between 1974 and 1977, a statesman of the sport, a warhorse who left on his own terms after another spell on the throne.

Retire in 1978, a finished fighter with a great legacy who conjured up just enough magic to make sure he avenged every loss.

Retire in 1981. A man devastated by the hard career he chose and the choices he made in it. Become the man for whom 'shuffle' has two meanings.

I voted for 'after the rumble in the jungle'

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 11 Oct 2019, 10:07

After Leon II. Go out a winner.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 11 Oct 2019, 16:57

After Thrilla in Manila. Then he can mess with all the women he wants to.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 11 Oct 2019, 16:58

After Thrilla in Manila. Then he can mess with all the women he wants to.

Contendeh · Post by **Contendeh** » 12 Oct 2019, 21:06

After Manila.

That’d have been a great ending.
The world didn’t stop caring about him when he stopped fighting and he had nothing left to prove after that fight.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 13 Oct 2019, 12:44

Muhammad Ali should have retired after the Thrilla in Manila.

But, after that fight, it was hard to retire because he was trying to make all the millions of dollars that he lost in his exile years.

He was making an average of 2.5 million dollars a fight in his second reign. It was to him about making all that money and entertain the crowd as much as possible. He was much more of a banker than a boxer after the Thrilla.

drunkenpiper36 · Post by **drunkenpiper36** » 13 Oct 2019, 16:41

My vote was after the Thrilla. winning the title for the third time wasn't worth losing to Leon Spinks, and some of those other fights he narrowly escaped with iffy decisions anyway. The Holmes and Berbick fights were just sad.

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 15 Oct 2019, 10:44

After the 3rd Frazier is the obvious choice.

However, no matter when, he would have criticized. We would be hearing how he ducked Young, Shavers, and a 3rd fight with Norton.

drunkenpiper36 · Post by **drunkenpiper36** » 15 Oct 2019, 21:46

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Oct 2019, 10:44 After the 3rd Frazier is the obvious choice.

However, no matter when, he would have criticized. We would be hearing how he ducked Young, Shavers, and a 3rd fight with Norton.

I absolutely agree with Norton. But in 1975 ( which is when The thrilla took place ) Young and Shavers weren’t seen as elite men yet, hence I doubt they would have been considered as “ ducks “

oogiebe · Post by **oogiebe** » 15 Oct 2019, 21:53

drunkenpiper36 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2019, 21:46
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑15 Oct 2019, 10:44 After the 3rd Frazier is the obvious choice.

However, no matter when, he would have criticized. We would be hearing how he ducked Young, Shavers, and a 3rd fight with Norton.
I absolutely agree with Norton. But in 1975 ( which is when The thrilla took place ) Young and Shavers weren’t seen as elite men yet, hence I doubt they would have been considered as “ ducks “

young came out of nowhere, and Shavers was never considered elite. So yeah, I agree.

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 16 Oct 2019, 11:02

It's Ali, they would have considered "ducks" by his his detractors.

Young had already beaten Lyle. Shavers had been a contender for years. There is usually going to be someone good you haven't fought if you retire with the title.

And again it's Ali. I have seem him get criticized for not defending the title against Foreman when Foreman came back in 1976. That would be the same year that Ali defended the title against both the #1 and #2 contenders.

I have seen Tunney criticized for not fighting Schmeling. (Schmeling wasn't in the top 10 when Tunney retired. He quite possibly had never heard of him.)
Marciano has been criticized for not fighting Patterson. Patterson was not ranked at the the time Marciano retired.