UNBELEIVABLE...Toney vs Wlad for Nov

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jun 2006, 04:55

stujones wrote:Hasn't Donald King got options on Valuev now? I think Valuev's intrigue factor makes him a bigger box office star stateside than Wlad. According to Dan Raphael on the Rahman vs Toney card he gets inundated with emails asking "when is Valuev going to be on US TV".

It would be like Rocky, the giant from Russia making his US debut vs an all time great master boxer but past his prime.

Precisely. King does indeed have options. If anyone can sell Valuev to an american TV audience, it's Don. It's like Apollo Creed v Drago all over again.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Jun 2006, 05:04

Max Molyneux wrote:I kind of scored Toney and Rahman barely to Toney but Imight of scored one round wrong so I agree with the draw too. It was close and Toney was making Rahman miss and landing cleaner.

i couldn't give toney the fight, he didn't do enough & didn't deserve it no matter how many good 30-40 second spells he had where he landed a few good counters. on these boards toney is living off his reputation

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Jun 2006, 05:07

viciousmaussa wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:I kind of scored Toney and Rahman barely to Toney but Imight of scored one round wrong so I agree with the draw too. It was close and Toney was making Rahman miss and landing cleaner.
i couldn't give toney the fight, he didn't do enough & didn't deserve it no matter how many good 30-40 second spells he had where he landed a few good counters. on these boards toney is living off his reputation

It was close though.

Rahman was mostly going off the jab and he shouldn't of been pushing Toney to the ropes as Toney kept hitting him cleaner when he was on the ropes.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 07 Jun 2006, 05:09

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
stujones wrote:Hasn't Donald King got options on Valuev now? I think Valuev's intrigue factor makes him a bigger box office star stateside than Wlad. According to Dan Raphael on the Rahman vs Toney card he gets inundated with emails asking "when is Valuev going to be on US TV".

It would be like Rocky, the giant from Russia making his US debut vs an all time great master boxer but past his prime.
Precisely. King does indeed have options. If anyone can sell Valuev to an american TV audience, it's Don. It's like Apollo Creed v Drago all over again.

King have 2 or 3 options left. And King only have 50% option, Sauerland got the other 50%

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Jun 2006, 05:53

Come on guys dont let your personal feelings get in the way of picking this fight! Toney is a HOF cert but is now overweight and old. He would have enough trouble competing with Wlad fighting at 215 - at 235+ he is a sitting duck. He couldn't even outbox Rahman!

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 07 Jun 2006, 06:03

Some people never learn

Although apparently BoxRec's own Stacy "American Clubfighter" Goodson has got Shannon Briggs a fight with Wlad....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Jun 2006, 06:14

Terence wrote:Nick, people get size blind looknig at Wlad, he was not white-hot versus a clearly past-it Byrd and the shots he went down from versus Peter do not suggest his capacity to hold a shot has been bolstered.

Watching versus Purity the other day was interesting as he has not improved a great deal, for all his self-styled genius Manny has not done a great job with Wlad. He was still showing signs of tiring in a non-fight with Byrd.

It is all debateable until the fight is signed, fought and picked apart, even then the Wlad pickers would not admit Toney won, it would be due to Wlad's medical problems or something of that kind. Toney is a short, very good fighter, Wlad is a big, poor fighter. How many people picked Brewster to hammer Wlad into submission?

I'm not size blind, but I fail to see how Toney can win coming into the fight like a blimp which he most certainly will. I would not say Wlad is a poor fighter just look at his record he has beaten some capable fighters. His shortcomings are already well documented but Toney does not have the power of workrate to take advantage.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Jun 2006, 06:19

nickd wrote:Come on guys dont let your personal feelings get in the way of picking this fight! Toney is a HOF cert but is now overweight and old. He would have enough trouble competing with Wlad fighting at 215 - at 235+ he is a sitting duck. He couldn't even outbox Rahman!

He did outbox Rahman to a close fight though.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Jun 2006, 07:46

Max Molyneux wrote:
nickd wrote:Come on guys dont let your personal feelings get in the way of picking this fight! Toney is a HOF cert but is now overweight and old. He would have enough trouble competing with Wlad fighting at 215 - at 235+ he is a sitting duck. He couldn't even outbox Rahman!
He did outbox Rahman to a close fight though.

How?

Most people thought Rahman won and it was scored a draw so how did he outbox him?

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 07 Jun 2006, 09:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Toney is pure box office.

You sure about that?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Jun 2006, 09:44

According to Teletext, Toney is asking for 2.5 million (not sure if it is pounds or dollars).... Team Klitchsko think it is crazy money, but if you think it is for a portion of the most prestigious prize in boxing... and the earnings the last great champions (Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis) were earning ($30 million). I don't think its a rediculous price tag.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 07 Jun 2006, 09:45

Not considering how much Wlad will gross in Germany.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jun 2006, 10:27

Wlad and Manny want to keep a nice fat slice of the cake for themselves. The fight will probably gross $15 million with TV rights etc.

When I said Toney was pure box office, I meant he knows how to sell a fight. If he was fighting Valuev the press conferences would be hilarious.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Jun 2006, 16:05

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Wlad and Manny want to keep a nice fat slice of the cake for themselves. The fight will probably gross $15 million with TV rights etc.

When I said Toney was pure box office, I meant he knows how to sell a fight. If he was fighting Valuev the press conferences would be hilarious.

I don't know. Toney is findly remembered by a lot of us who saw him in the early 90s. I first learned of him when I got a tape of the 1st McCallum fight and the book Dark Trade: Lost in Boxing & was hooked on the guy. Yanks liked him too, needing as they did another badarse with Tyson jailed. However, he's more of a freakshow now, a fat cigar smoking bigmouth - still crafty, but his body's breaking down and his legs have gone. Not a guy you'd want to pay to see. Even his Jirov comeback has totally lost its steam.

Also, Toney-Holyfield did crap on PPV, truly crap if I remember right

jab · Post by **jab** » 07 Jun 2006, 17:36

stujones wrote:According to Teletext, Toney is asking for 2.5 million (not sure if it is pounds or dollars).... Team Klitchsko think it is crazy money, but if you think it is for a portion of the most prestigious prize in boxing... and the earnings the last great champions (Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis) were earning ($30 million). I don't think its a rediculous price tag.

Yeah, maybe true. But then again, Toney is nowhere close to Holy, Tyson or Lewis in their heydays. He plainly sucks by comparision with these 3. So while they commanded huge purses, Obese One Ton Toney cannot. His heavyweight record does not warrant him 30 million dollar purses. No way! He never beat anybody of note at heavy so far. (Ruiz fight doesnt count, due to drug DQ, anf Holy was way past it) So why should One Ton Toney deserve such high purses? He is one big fight away from retirement. He has nothing left in the tank. He cant even get in decent shape for a title fight. He is done.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Jun 2006, 18:43

jab wrote:
stujones wrote:According to Teletext, Toney is asking for 2.5 million (not sure if it is pounds or dollars).... Team Klitchsko think it is crazy money, but if you think it is for a portion of the most prestigious prize in boxing... and the earnings the last great champions (Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis) were earning ($30 million). I don't think its a rediculous price tag.
Yeah, maybe true. But then again, Toney is nowhere close to Holy, Tyson or Lewis in their heydays. He plainly sucks by comparision with these 3. So while they commanded huge purses, Obese One Ton Toney cannot. His heavyweight record does not warrant him 30 million dollar purses. No way! He never beat anybody of note at heavy so far. (Ruiz fight doesnt count, due to drug DQ, anf Holy was way past it) So why should One Ton Toney deserve such high purses? He is one big fight away from retirement. He has nothing left in the tank. He cant even get in decent shape for a title fight. He is done.

Jab I didn't say 30 million for Toney... all I said was 2.5 was reasonable. Tyson got more than that for the Williams and McBride losses. My whole point was there is a huge difference between 30 and 2.5 million.

If someone would have said to me how much would Toney and Wlad be earning for this fight, I would have guessed at around the 5 million a piece.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 07 Jun 2006, 19:32

Taken from the pursus thread on the current scene:
Wladimir Klitschko $300.000 v DaVarryl Williamson $90.000
Wladimir Klitschko $531.000 v Lamon Brewster $225.000

jab · Post by **jab** » 07 Jun 2006, 20:16

stujones wrote:
jab wrote:
stujones wrote:According to Teletext, Toney is asking for 2.5 million (not sure if it is pounds or dollars).... Team Klitchsko think it is crazy money, but if you think it is for a portion of the most prestigious prize in boxing... and the earnings the last great champions (Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis) were earning ($30 million). I don't think its a rediculous price tag.
Yeah, maybe true. But then again, Toney is nowhere close to Holy, Tyson or Lewis in their heydays. He plainly sucks by comparision with these 3. So while they commanded huge purses, Obese One Ton Toney cannot. His heavyweight record does not warrant him 30 million dollar purses. No way! He never beat anybody of note at heavy so far. (Ruiz fight doesnt count, due to drug DQ, anf Holy was way past it) So why should One Ton Toney deserve such high purses? He is one big fight away from retirement. He has nothing left in the tank. He cant even get in decent shape for a title fight. He is done.
Jab I didn't say 30 million for Toney... all I said was 2.5 was reasonable. Tyson got more than that for the Williams and McBride losses. My whole point was there is a huge difference between 30 and 2.5 million.

If someone would have said to me how much would Toney and Wlad be earning for this fight, I would have guessed at around the 5 million a piece.

Sorry for the missunderstanding. English is not my first language.

Yeah, perhaps 2.5 million is a fair amount.
But this is negotiation process here:

Wlad: Toney, how about I get to knock your obese self out for 1.5 million?
Toney: No way Wladdy, I need at least 2.5 million to let you blast me around the ring and end my career on my back.
Wlad: Hey Toney, you are too far gone and too fat and lazy to bring enough viewers for a 2.5 million cut. That pathetic effort you put against Rahman killed your appeal man!
Toney: Come on Wladdy, the judges gave me that gift draw so I still am in the big picture. Give me at least 2.1 million?!
Wlad: 1.8 million is the most you can get guy. You dont fool many anymore. You cant even get in shape for a title fight, so you disapointed your fan base. Few are left now. Take it or leave it.
Toney: Deal!

Then 1 week before the match, a 265lb Toney pulls out because he broke a leg in the gym while weight training with 15 Big Macs. He announces retirement from boxing. He promptly joins the Sumo circuit where he is light enough to compete.