Was this fight bought?

[boxing_rocks]

But paying judges off in big ppv fights is not risky?

Like the female ref who gave the fight to canelo when he lost 12 out of 12 rds against maywrather.

Or the judges of todays fight, who gave most rds to canelo, when experts like me or bernstein had kovalev every single rd.

The whole thing was a hoax

I don’t think any judges were paid off. I think they were just really ignorant and suck at their job. I feel like something would’ve leaked. We would’ve heard some big scandal. One of these judges would wanna be famous and write a book about how they were paid off. Something would happen

In most cases, they are not literally paid off. They just want to please a certain promoter to keep working on their cards. Listen to this:

[Enlightened-One]

I don’t think any judges were paid off. I think they were just really ignorant and suck at their job. I feel like something would’ve leaked. We would’ve heard some big scandal. One of these judges would wanna be famous and write a book about how they were paid off. Something would happen

In most cases, they are not literally paid off. They just want to please a certain promoter to keep working on their cards. Listen to this:

Atlas may be wrong quite often, but at least he tries to give advise about actual boxing.

[Finkel]

Since Canelo fought Mayweather

Dave Morretti had been a judge on 9 of the 10 Canelo fights that have happened in Vegas.

The one fight he wasn't involved in was Khan. And I think it's fair to say that one was never going to the score cards.

Doesn't that seem a little odd. No matter how experienced the guy is.

[Enlightened-One]

Since Canelo fought Mayweather

Dave Morretti had been a judge on 9 of the 10 Canelo fights that have happened in Vegas.

The one fight he wasn't involved in was Khan. And I think it's fair to say that one was never going to the score cards.

Doesn't that seem a little odd. No matter how experienced the guy is.

A list of pre-approved sanctioned officials are provided by the sports governing bodies (i.e. the WBC, WBC, IBF, WBO etc.), which are then appointed by the commission (in the case of the Canelo-Kovalev bout, it would have been the NSAC).

Any resulting costs incurred due to the appointment of the aforementioned officials will be paid for by the promoter.

The promoters representing both fighters can formally request the commissions to appoint officials from "neutral" countries and they can also complain about the appointment of specific individuals (if they can prove that their track record is questionable in nature). However, the commissions are under no obligation to fulfil requests of this nature.

It is important to note that promoters cannot request the commission to appoint specific individuals and nor can they ask for judges from specific countries.

The 75-year-old Dave Moretti resides in Las Vegas, Nevada, and has officiated almost 60K fights, working on hundreds of world title bouts, with the majority of them being staged in his home state. He is one of the world's most experienced judges.

Nobody from Main Events or Top Rank filed a complaint to the NSAC about the appointment of Dave Moretti for the Canelo-Kovalev bout.

[Finkel]

I acknowledge he is one of the world's most experience judges, and that he lives in Nevada

But given he has been involved in a number of controversially scored fights involving Canelo you would think there would be other options

Whether or not there was a complaint lodged doesn't invalidate this being an example that supports what Atlas was claiming occurs

i.e. jobs for the boys

[Enlightened-One]

I acknowledge he is one of the world's most experience judges, and that he lives in Nevada

But given he has been involved in a number of controversially scored fights involving Canelo you would think there would be other options

Whether or not there was a complaint lodged doesn't invalidate this being an example that supports what Atlas was claiming occurs

i.e. jobs for the boys

It is inevitable that any judge that has officiated almost 60K bouts would have at some point submitted questionable scorecards. So I’m sure you’ll be able to cherry-pick a carefully-selected small sample of bouts he’s worked on to support your beliefs.

That being said, Moretti’s scorecard for the Kovalev-Canelo bout were pretty much in line with the following media sources: Forbes, CBS Sports, The RING, Yahoo!, FightNews, ESPN, Chris Mannix, Sky Sports etc.

Main Events and Top Rank were happy with Moretti’s appointment for the fight, because otherwise they would have lodged a complaint with the NSAC, but they did not do this.

In fact, Dave Moretti has also judged numerous Las Vegas-based Top Rank and Main Events fights cards that Sergey Kovalev did not compete on. So Bob Arum and Kathy Duva clearly don’t have issues with him.

And we’ve already established the fact that the same person that cited Teddy Atlas’ interview with Joe Rogan as evidence to support his own conspiracy theory agenda, also previously and regularly admitted that Atlas himself is “wrong quite often”, meaning that (by his own admission) this so-called “proof” was provided by an unreliable source.

I appreciate that many people wholeheartedly believe in conspiracy theories, because they provide a more complex, satisfying and exciting account of things than the objective truth of mundane reality, so I can understand the reason why you prefer to maintain your “more intriguing” stance instead of evaluating the situation using boring fact-based criteria.

[cormack]

not really
Just a shrewd move by Canelo to fight a bigger guy at the tail end of his career and pinch the belt .
Canelo can take a good shot we saw that in this fight.
Kovalov just needed a bit more to trouble him which they knew he didnt have , they knew he would tire like he did against Yarde and would be open to getting stopped.

Shrewd or calculating if you like - but for me a bit of an easy fight compared to for example both GGG fights.
Canelo has to fight Callum Smith and then we may see what he can do against a stronger opponent.

[Finkel]

I acknowledge he is one of the world's most experience judges, and that he lives in Nevada

But given he has been involved in a number of controversially scored fights involving Canelo you would think there would be other options

Whether or not there was a complaint lodged doesn't invalidate this being an example that supports what Atlas was claiming occurs

i.e. jobs for the boys

It is inevitable that any judge that has officiated almost 60K bouts would have at some point submitted questionable scorecards. So I’m sure you’ll be able to cherry-pick a carefully-selected small sample of bouts he’s worked on to support your beliefs.

That being said, Moretti’s scorecard for the Kovalev-Canelo bout were pretty much in line with the following media sources: Forbes, CBS Sports, The RING, Yahoo!, FightNews, ESPN, Chris Mannix, Sky Sports etc.

Main Events and Top Rank were happy with Moretti’s appointment for the fight, because otherwise they would have lodged a complaint with the NSAC, but they did not do this.

In fact, Dave Moretti has also judged numerous Las Vegas-based Top Rank and Main Events fights cards that Sergey Kovalev did not compete on. So Bob Arum and Kathy Duva clearly don’t have issues with him.

And we’ve already established the fact that the same person that cited Teddy Atlas’ interview with Joe Rogan as evidence to support his own conspiracy theory agenda, also previously and regularly admitted that Atlas himself is “wrong quite often”, meaning that (by his own admission) this so-called “proof” was provided by an unreliable source.

I appreciate that many people wholeheartedly believe in conspiracy theories, because they provide a more complex, satisfying and exciting account of things than the objective truth of mundane reality, so I can understand the reason why you prefer to maintain your “more intriguing” stance instead of evaluating the situation using boring fact-based criteria.

Why would they lodge a complaint?
Kovalev was selling his belt, top rank and main event were facilitating this.

It's not cherry picking to say that since Canelo faced Mayweather, Canelo has fought a further 9 times in Vegas. That is a discreet data set. Dave Moretti has officiated in 9 of those 10 bouts.

My point is whether or not you believe there to be any wrog doing, and whether or not he submitted a controversial card himself, why would an organisation keep selecting him to be on the judging panel for Canelo's fights when there has been controversy in 4 of the 9 he has been involved in:
Mayweather, Lara, GGG 1, GGG 2
and now this

BTW Morretti gave 6 of the first 7 to Canelo (remember Kovalev was the champ, Canelo was the challenger) did any of Forbes, CBS Sports, The RING, Yahoo!, FightNews, ESPN, Chris Mannix, Sky Sports etc. see it that way? Genuine question

[Enlightened-One]

Why would they lodge a complaint?
Kovalev was selling his belt, top rank and main event were facilitating this.

I’m not sure what you want me to say about that fictional claim.

why would an organisation keep selecting him to be on the judging panel for Canelo's fights when there has been controversy in 4 of the 9 he has been involved in:
Mayweather, Lara, GGG 1, GGG 2
and now this

Whenever fights are highly-competitive and the scorecards are close, fight fans are always outraged when their preferred fighter loses. It's an understandable and natural reaction, but perceived controversy doesn’t mean that the judges were either incompetent or corrupt.

The NSAC are likely to pick their most experienced/accomplished judges for any PPV bout staged in Las Vegas. And you can’t find anyone more qualified than Dave Moretti.

Within the last ten months, Dave Moretti has been the judge for eight world title bouts staged in Las Vegas:

• Canelo-Kovalev
• Stevenson-Gonzalez
• Navarrete-Elorde
• Davis-Nunez
• Pacquiao-Thurman
• Canelo-Jacobs
• Lomachenko-Crolla
• Pacquiao-Broner

During the course of his career, Moretti worked on eleven Pacquiao bouts and twelve Mayweather fights.

What do Canelo, Pacquiao and Mayweather Jr. all have in common? They either were or are considered the sports’ biggest names attracting the biggest gate receipts and largest PPV audience figures, with Las Vegas being their preferred venue of choice for many of their bouts.

If GBP, Matchroom, Main Events, Top Rank, PBC etc. had a problem with Moretti working on their fight cards, they would have lodged a complaint to the NSAC, but none have.

Perhaps you should contact the NSAC and ask them to justify the reason why they select their most highly-experienced Nevada-based judge for their highest-profile PPV fights staged in Las Vegas?

BTW Morretti gave 6 of the first 7 to Canelo (remember Kovalev was the champ, Canelo was the challenger) did any of Forbes, CBS Sports, The RING, Yahoo!, FightNews, ESPN, Chris Mannix, Sky Sports etc. see it that way? Genuine question

I didn’t scrutinise their scorecards on a round-by-round basis and some of these media sources didn’t supply this information either.

[Finkel]

Not sure why you editted in all that extra information in the above post, why not spend the time looking at the score cards of those you held up to validate Moretti's one

Btw I don't think it is good that he was judging so many of any fighters bouts
Be that Mayweather or Pacquiao

[Enlightened-One]

Btw I don't think it is good that he was judging so many of any fighters bouts

Be that Mayweather or Pacquiao

Perhaps you're right, who knows... but when you’re talking about one of the NSAC’s long-term practises that has been in place and considered the norm for more than a decade (or even several decades), it’s a little late to only start complaining about it now… and for only one particular fight.

[Monte Fisto]

I didn’t for one minute think it wouldn’t be. Who serves up the biggest PPV star in boxing to someone like kov, without knowing??
Happy retirement Sergey!

[margaret thatcher]

Not bought, just very strategically and well thought out matchmaking, and it's clear Canelo has the ability to pack on extra size well, whatever the means of that may be

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Good opponent selection. Perfect risk/reward. Like numerous people said he hasnt fought the best at 168 or 175 but was able to get paper belts as an accomplishment. The knockout he deserves a lot of credit for that was unexpected

[margaret thatcher]

Btw...I and other posters talked for the Yarde fight that it looked like Kov was 'pulling' his punches compared to how he used to fight. I think it was a 'saftey' and stamina tactic to prolong himself, I don't think it shows any 'boughtness'

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Btw...I and other posters talked for the Yarde fight that it looked like Kov was 'pulling' his punches compared to how he used to fight. I think it was a 'saftey' and stamina tactic to prolong himself, I don't think it shows any 'boughtness'

Agreed. He knows his punch resistance is poor and fought to protect himself.

A lot of people were saying he ate Pascal's shots no problem. Well fighters ability to take a punch can decrease. Hopkins absorbed kovalevs shots then Joe Smith knocked out of the ring.

Chris Byrd ate shots from the Klitschko then some lhw journeyman knocks him loopy.

[Duran1970]

If anyone thinks NSAC is on the level then they need to do more research....their priorities aren't on athletics.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Btw...I and other posters talked for the Yarde fight that it looked like Kov was 'pulling' his punches compared to how he used to fight. I think it was a 'saftey' and stamina tactic to prolong himself, I don't think it shows any 'boughtness'

Yes, I think it likely kovalev wasn't feeling strong going in there, he fought like he was the one moving up in weight.

Even before the left hook, which wasn't a full blooded shot got him going, another cuffijg left seemed to stiffen his legs. The right cross hit him when he was pretty much helpless, his legs had gone, it suggests a fighter who had very little punch resistance in him.

Let's face it, Canelo hadn't been a devastating puncher at top level at 160. GGG and Jacobs both took many flush shots without much trouble.

It's possible of course he is much stronger at 175, as he isn't weight drained, but it seems unlikely his shots would have that much authority against bigger men. His stamina did look better, but again, he wasn't made to work, all he did was stalk with his guard up.

It may of course just be that at 36, and with 12 million reasons not to leave it all in the ring, he cashed out mentally.

I don't believe it was a fix for one second, no way was the KO fake, he was hyperventilating after the knockdown, and was clearly paralysed and helpless after that right hand. Nor would any professional fighter allow themselves to be felled like that deliberately.

I think it was a case of an old fighter finding the well dry, maybe the fight was too soon after Yarde and his body couldn't take the rigors of two training camps back to back, maybe he didn't really train hard for the fight, but no way was it a fix.

I have some issues with the scoring for sure, but I've seen way more outrageous cards, and kovalev only really dominated a couple of rounds unequivocally, he had a very good 8th for instance, but that was maybe all he had in the tank.

I don't see kovalev making another run at the title, and won't be at all surprised if he calls it a day, maybe after one more last lap fight against a soft opponent, maybe that will be his last lucrative rodeo.

It wouldn't be the last time we saw an aging fighter lose after being offered a huge payday. Pedroza and tszyu come to mind.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Btw...I and other posters talked for the Yarde fight that it looked like Kov was 'pulling' his punches compared to how he used to fight. I think it was a 'saftey' and stamina tactic to prolong himself, I don't think it shows any 'boughtness'

Agreed. He knows his punch resistance is poor and fought to protect himself.

A lot of people were saying he ate Pascal's shots no problem. Well fighters ability to take a punch can decrease. Hopkins absorbed kovalevs shots then Joe Smith knocked out of the ring.

Chris Byrd ate shots from the Klitschko then some lhw journeyman knocks him loopy.

I think in byrds case the move back down ruined him.