Saunders may be an appealing good scalp for Canelo atm

[drunkenpiper36]

This is a good next fight for Canelo if it comes off.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Do you think if Saunders were to beat Canelo, he‘d get some credit for it on here?

Yes he would, though he would probably still be disliked, mainly because he comes across as a vile human being, and an extremely boring fighter to watch.

[Enlightened-One]

WBC already did Canelo a favor allowing to "defend" against Khan and keep his belt. Canelo and Oscar knew right after beating Cotto that they need to reach an agreement with GGG. They didn't learn something new after the Khan fight.

This.

Canelo had 6 months to agree terms to fight Golovkin (Nov 2015, up to the WBC's deadline in late May the following year).

After he beat Cotto, he asked for an interim fight, based on an agreement to face Golovkin in September 2016, to allow him time to properly acclimatise to middleweight (which he did by fighting Khan at 155). It shouldn't have come as any surprise that the WBC wanted to force through the fight by that point. They'd already made enough concessions.

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

[apollo creed]

This.

Canelo had 6 months to agree terms to fight Golovkin (Nov 2015, up to the WBC's deadline in late May the following year).

After he beat Cotto, he asked for an interim fight, based on an agreement to face Golovkin in September 2016, to allow him time to properly acclimatise to middleweight (which he did by fighting Khan at 155). It shouldn't have come as any surprise that the WBC wanted to force through the fight by that point. They'd already made enough concessions.

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

Can you put the links? Thanks.

[Enlightened-One]

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

Can you put the links? Thanks.

Nope. You can use Google and its search engine filters though.

[Deleted_Scenes]

This.

Canelo had 6 months to agree terms to fight Golovkin (Nov 2015, up to the WBC's deadline in late May the following year).

After he beat Cotto, he asked for an interim fight, based on an agreement to face Golovkin in September 2016, to allow him time to properly acclimatise to middleweight (which he did by fighting Khan at 155). It shouldn't have come as any surprise that the WBC wanted to force through the fight by that point. They'd already made enough concessions.

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

I'm not disputing that timeline, but you missed something out.

14/12/2015 - WBC announce that it will allow Alvarez and Golovkin one interim fight in the spring, based on an agreement to face each other by September 2016.

So, Canelo knew he had to face Golovkin in November 2015, and he knew when the fight had to happen by in December 2015.

To suggest he was only allowed 15 days is ludicrous. The WBC said they were only giving another 15 days, because they'd had long enough already. The court case is irrelevant, and as far as I'm aware, the fighter isn't required to be present at a purse bid (correct me if I'm wrong).

The only part you can argue the WBC was in the wrong, is cutting the 30 days to 15, but given (as you've shown yourself) Canelo was busy with other things at that time, an extra 2 weeks wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference. Especially when they had 6 months to make it and failed.

[lazboy]

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

I'm not disputing that timeline, but you missed something out.

14/12/2015 - WBC announce that it will allow Alvarez and Golovkin one interim fight in the spring, based on an agreement to face each other by September 2016.

So, Canelo knew he had to face Golovkin in November 2015, and he knew when the fight had to happen by in December 2015.

To suggest he was only allowed 15 days is ludicrous. The WBC said they were only giving another 15 days, because they'd had long enough already. The court case is irrelevant, and as far as I'm aware, the fighter isn't required to be present at a purse bid (correct me if I'm wrong).

The only part you can argue the WBC was in the wrong, is cutting the 30 days to 15, but given (as you've shown yourself) Canelo was busy with other things at that time, an extra 2 weeks wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference. Especially when they had 6 months to make it and failed.

Canelo was rightfully criticised.

However today I feel he’s now more respected and liked as he is taking more risks. I considered Kovalev a risk.

[boxing_rocks]

Canelo was rightfully criticised.

However today I feel he’s now more respected and liked as he is taking more risks. I considered Kovalev a risk.

Canelo and his team are clearly more knowledgeable. They knew that Kovalev didn't pose much risk.

[lazboy]

Canelo was rightfully criticised.

However today I feel he’s now more respected and liked as he is taking more risks. I considered Kovalev a risk.

Canelo and his team are clearly more knowledgeable. They knew that Kovalev didn't pose much risk.

To me he was still a risk although I’m sure they knew their advantages. Canelo imo was rightly criticised in the past especially the ggg saga but I feel he’s making better decisions, now having faced ggg twice, Jacobs and Kovalev.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Canelo delayed the fight which is obvious. He was right to do so based on the financial and in ring results although he was heavily criticized.

Remember he said he wouldnt f around and put the gloves on right there after the Khan win. Then he effed around for another year and a half. To act like there wasnt time for a negotiation I'm that time is absurd.

[Enlightened-One]

Here are the actual timelines:

• 11/11/2015 - WBC orders the winner of Cotto-Canelo to defend their title against GGG, after Golovkin had received an $800K step-aside fee
• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

Like I said before...

Only three days after Canelo had defended his belt against Amir Khan, the WBC installed a blatantly unreasonable 15-day deadline for the Mexican to come to an agreement with Gennady Golovkin for a title defence, with the World Boxing Council president (Mauricio Sulaiman) knowing full-well that both Alvarez and also his promoter (Golden Boy) were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit.

If you don't believe me, check the facts for yourself.

I'm not disputing that timeline, but you missed something out.

14/12/2015 - WBC announce that it will allow Alvarez and Golovkin one interim fight in the spring, based on an agreement to face each other by September 2016.

So, Canelo knew he had to face Golovkin in November 2015, and he knew when the fight had to happen by in December 2015.

To suggest he was only allowed 15 days is ludicrous. The WBC said they were only giving another 15 days, because they'd had long enough already. The court case is irrelevant, and as far as I'm aware, the fighter isn't required to be present at a purse bid (correct me if I'm wrong).

The only part you can argue the WBC was in the wrong, is cutting the 30 days to 15, but given (as you've shown yourself) Canelo was busy with other things at that time, an extra 2 weeks wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference. Especially when they had 6 months to make it and failed.

So on the 4th May, Mauricio Sulaiman announced there would be a thirty-day period of negotiations, commencing a week after the Canelo-Khan bout, for the winner to agree terms to face GGG, otherwise the rights to stage the fight would go to purse bids.

The WBC's head honcho did this knowing full-well, since the 22nd January, that both Canelo and GBP would be forced to attend court for the $24m All-Star Boxing lawsuit during the week commencing the 23rd May. Both parties were being sued (breach by Canelo and contract interference by GBP).

Three days after the Canelo-Khan bout, on the 10th May, the WBC then imposed a fifteen-day negotiation period for Alvarez and Golovkin to agree terms, with the purse-bid deadline set for the 24th May.

Verify the dates that correspond to each point I’ve raised. You’ll surely appreciate that the WBC put Canelo in an impossible position, which led to a 2½ feud between Mauricio Sulaiman and Saul Alvarez.

I’m not making this up. It happened.

Fights between two competitors aren't negotiated, the terms agreed and contracts signed when both participants already have bouts lined-up against other opponents. It's extremely rare for this to happen.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Isnt that what happened after the Chavez jr fight? When ggg went to the ring? They announced it?

[lazboy]

Isnt that what happened after the Chavez jr fight? When ggg went to the ring? They announced it?

Lmao! That is the perfect example. I salute you sir.

[Deleted_Scenes]

I'm not disputing that timeline, but you missed something out.

14/12/2015 - WBC announce that it will allow Alvarez and Golovkin one interim fight in the spring, based on an agreement to face each other by September 2016.

So, Canelo knew he had to face Golovkin in November 2015, and he knew when the fight had to happen by in December 2015.

To suggest he was only allowed 15 days is ludicrous. The WBC said they were only giving another 15 days, because they'd had long enough already. The court case is irrelevant, and as far as I'm aware, the fighter isn't required to be present at a purse bid (correct me if I'm wrong).

The only part you can argue the WBC was in the wrong, is cutting the 30 days to 15, but given (as you've shown yourself) Canelo was busy with other things at that time, an extra 2 weeks wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference. Especially when they had 6 months to make it and failed.

So on the 4th May, Mauricio Sulaiman announced there would be a thirty-day period of negotiations, commencing a week after the Canelo-Khan bout, for the winner to agree terms to face GGG, otherwise the rights to stage the fight would go to purse bids.

The WBC's head honcho did this knowing full-well, since the 22nd January, that both Canelo and GBP would be forced to attend court for the $24m All-Star Boxing lawsuit during the week commencing the 23rd May. Both parties were being sued (breach by Canelo and contract interference by GBP).

Three days after the Canelo-Khan bout, on the 10th May, the WBC then imposed a fifteen-day negotiation period for Alvarez and Golovkin to agree terms, with the purse-bid deadline set for the 24th May.

Verify the dates that correspond to each point I’ve raised. You’ll surely appreciate that the WBC put Canelo in an impossible position, which led to a 2½ feud between Mauricio Sulaiman and Saul Alvarez.

I’m not making this up. It happened.

Fights between two competitors aren't negotiated, the terms agreed and contracts signed when both participants already have bouts lined-up against other opponents. It's extremely rare for this to happen.

Where have I disputed the timeline?

If you want to talk facts, it's a fact that the WBC gave Canelo 15 days, commencing November 22nd 2015 (the day after he beat Cotto), to begin negotiations to fight Golovkin. Nothing happened. Oscar spent the time talking about 'marination'.

The WBC then (in mid December) agreed to allow interim bouts in the spring, on condition they fought each other in September. Eric Gomez said that the complexity of arranging a mega fight was the main reason for the postponement. May was too soon. It needed to be later in the year.

Tell me, if November to May (almost 6 months) is too short a time period to negotiate and promote the fight, why would May to September (only 4 months, even without the 2nd WBC deadline) be enough? You want us to believe negotiations don't happen until after the interim fights, right? I'm calling you out on that point. If they want the fight to happen in September, they use the extra time to negotiate with Golovkin's team, as Gomez stated. They may not have every single detail agreed, and contracts signed, but if they want the fight to happen, they at least have a broad idea of what the terms would be, before the Khan fight. They (professional business people) certainly don't spend the time sitting on their thumbs, while knowing there's a fixed time for the fight to happen by. Sometimes, as Canelo has done himself, contracts do also get signed beforehand.

It's also very common, where promoters have been negotiating and feel there's a good chance of reaching agreement, to request a delay to purse bids, in order to allow terms to be finalised (and presumably to allow Canelo to get his court case dealt with). Was any such request made?

Canelo spat his dummy out instead, because he wasn't being allowed to have that one detail entirely his own way, after months of the WBC making concessions in his favour.

Was it a harsh deadline to set, on the part of the WBC? Yes.
Was it unexpected? No.
Did anyone request a delay to purse bids, based on an unchanged fight date? No.

To focus on May only, is to ignore 6 full months of events, where Canelo and his team were fully aware they had to fight Golovkin. They were fully aware of that, the second they jumped the queue to fight Cotto.

Stop your cherry picking.

[lazboy]

So on the 4th May, Mauricio Sulaiman announced there would be a thirty-day period of negotiations, commencing a week after the Canelo-Khan bout, for the winner to agree terms to face GGG, otherwise the rights to stage the fight would go to purse bids.

The WBC's head honcho did this knowing full-well, since the 22nd January, that both Canelo and GBP would be forced to attend court for the $24m All-Star Boxing lawsuit during the week commencing the 23rd May. Both parties were being sued (breach by Canelo and contract interference by GBP).

Three days after the Canelo-Khan bout, on the 10th May, the WBC then imposed a fifteen-day negotiation period for Alvarez and Golovkin to agree terms, with the purse-bid deadline set for the 24th May.

Verify the dates that correspond to each point I’ve raised. You’ll surely appreciate that the WBC put Canelo in an impossible position, which led to a 2½ feud between Mauricio Sulaiman and Saul Alvarez.

I’m not making this up. It happened.

Fights between two competitors aren't negotiated, the terms agreed and contracts signed when both participants already have bouts lined-up against other opponents. It's extremely rare for this to happen.

Where have I disputed the timeline?

If you want to talk facts, it's a fact that the WBC gave Canelo 15 days, commencing November 22nd 2015 (the day after he beat Cotto), to begin negotiations to fight Golovkin. Nothing happened. Oscar spent the time talking about 'marination'.

The WBC then (in mid December) agreed to allow interim bouts in the spring, on condition they fought each other in September. Eric Gomez said that the complexity of arranging a mega fight was the main reason for the postponement. May was too soon. It needed to be later in the year.

Tell me, if November to May (almost 6 months) is too short a time period to negotiate and promote the fight, why would May to September (only 4 months, even without the 2nd WBC deadline) be enough? You want us to believe negotiations don't happen until after the interim fights, right? I'm calling you out on that point. If they want the fight to happen in September, they use the extra time to negotiate with Golovkin's team, as Gomez stated. They may not have every single detail agreed, and contracts signed, but if they want the fight to happen, they at least have a broad idea of what the terms would be, before the Khan fight. They (professional business people) certainly don't spend the time sitting on their thumbs, while knowing there's a fixed time for the fight to happen by. Sometimes, as Canelo has done himself, contracts do also get signed beforehand.

It's also very common, where promoters have been negotiating and feel there's a good chance of reaching agreement, to request a delay to purse bids, in order to allow terms to be finalised (and presumably to allow Canelo to get his court case dealt with). Was any such request made?

Canelo spat his dummy out instead, because he wasn't being allowed to have that one detail entirely his own way, after months of the WBC making concessions in his favour.

Was it a harsh deadline to set, on the part of the WBC? Yes.
Was it unexpected? No.
Did anyone request a delay to purse bids, based on an unchanged fight date? No.

To focus on May only, is to ignore 6 full months of events, where Canelo and his team were fully aware they had to fight Golovkin. They were fully aware of that, the second they jumped the queue to fight Cotto.

Stop your cherry picking.

Well said sir. Clear, factual and persuasive. You are also patient, which is admirable, to deal with EO in such a manner. Many of us don’t want to go round and round when he presents his skewed facts which ignore common sense and align with only his agenda.

[boxing_rocks]

Yes, beat EO with his own weapon -- writing humongous posts.

[Enlightened-One]

Was it a harsh deadline to set, on the part of the WBC? Yes.
Was it unexpected? No.

To focus on May only, is to ignore 6 full months of events, where Canelo and his team were fully aware they had to fight Golovkin. They were fully aware of that, the second they jumped the queue to fight Cotto.

I already addressed this point when I made the following statement in my previous post:

Fights between two competitors aren't negotiated, the terms agreed and contracts signed when both participants already have bouts lined-up against other opponents. It's extremely rare for this to happen.

I'm not sure why you repeated the same claim, based on an assumed practice that doesn't actually happen in the sport of boxing. Do you research, you'll find I'm right about this.

What cannot be refuted though is that the WBC moved the goalposts by changing their mind and bringing forward a negotiation period that would have conflicted with the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit that both Canelo and GBP were legally compelled to attend.

The WBC’s resulted in a long-running feud between Canelo and Mauricio Sulaiman’s organisation, whereby Alvarez refused to pay any sanctioning fees to the WBC or accept any of their belts (even commemorative ones) for 2½ years.

I’m going to repeat the same point again-and-again, since it was only the WBC that moved the goalposts, knowing full-well that doing so would compel Canelo to vacate his title.

Even Mauricio Sulaiman made no attempt to refute Team Canelo’s claims, because he couldn’t, due to the WBC’s very own public announcements about this matter.

Here are Canelo’s comments about the matter:

“I’m not grateful to the WBC, nope.

“They made us look like we let the [WBC middleweight championship] title vacate or give it away to Golovkin.

"We had that legal thing in Miami. We were in court, and they wanted us to resolve everything [defend the WBC middleweight belt against Golovkin] while we were in court.

"So we had a lot of things going on, and they made us look like I gave the belt away because I was afraid. No, I’m not afraid of anyone. if that fight happens, it will be without the WBC belt. It will be for the other belts and that’s it, without the WBC.

"Why, because [Sulaiman] acted wrong. How was he going to push for that when I had another problem, and forcing that problem, push, push and push,” said Canelo.”

True to his word, Canelo engaged in a feud with the WBC for 2½ years and he flatly-refused to pay sanctioning fees to Mauricio Sulaiman’s organisation for his first GGG bout. And had he won it, rather than the bout being declared a draw, he wouldn’t have accepted the WBC strap.

I’ve also checked the WBC’s own rules and it grants a thirty-day free negotiation period for both parties to agree terms to negotiate, finalize, execute, and file a contract for the bout, with purse bids taking place fifteen days after the expiration of that deadline, which makes the following timelines doubly pertinent:

• 22/01/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy are legally obliged to attend court for the $27m All-Star Boxing lawsuit, with the date of the hearing scheduled to commence from the 23/05/16 onwards
• 04/05/2016 - The WBC announce the week following the Canelo-Khan bout, there will be a 30-day negotiation period to agree terms for the winner to defend their title against GGG
• 07/05/2016 - Canelo successfully defends his WBC middleweight title by scoring a KO victory over Amir Khan
• 10/05/2016 - The WBC change their mind and formally orders a 15-day deadline for GBP & K2 to come to an agreement for a Canelo-GGG bout, with a purse bid scheduled for the 24/05/16, for a fight to be held by the 17/09/16
• 19/05/2016 - Canelo vacates WBC middleweight title and GGG is formally announced as the new champion
• 23/05/2016 - Canelo and Golden Boy were physically in Florida attending court addressing the $27m All Star Boxing lawsuit
• 13/06/2016 - All-Star Boxing Awarded $8.5m in damages from Canelo

[lazboy]

EO you really need to ask yourself, are you listening or are you simply arguing? If you are not listening, you’re not learning. I suggest you re-read deleted scenes post. It’s very clear and reasonable.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hadn’t factored in the time post the Cotto fight or factored in who Canelo chose to fight post this. Nevertheless it has brought some interesting discussion. However it’s mostly clear in my opinion. Unless you’re able to bring something new rather than repeating yourself then it’s probably time to say goodnight.

[Enlightened-One]

EO you really need to ask yourself, are you listening or are you simply arguing? If you are not listening, you’re not learning. I suggest you re-read deleted scenes post. It’s very clear and reasonable.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hadn’t factored in the time post the Cotto fight or factored in who Canelo chose to fight post this. Nevertheless it has brought some interesting discussion. However it’s mostly clear in my opinion. Unless you’re able to bring something new rather than repeating yourself then it’s probably time to say goodnight.

OK, fair enough.

The reason I’ve doubled-down on making the same point again-and-again is that the preferred narrative is to criticise Canelo, even though the situation was orchestrated by the WBC.

And people are blaming Canelo and GBP, based on incorrect assumptions about how fights are negotiated.

For instance, how many examples can you provide of fights that have been negotiated and contracts signed-up whilst both competitors were already committed to engaging in other bouts against other opponents beforehand? It's very rare and certainly not the norm!

I’ve also checked the WBC’s own rules and it grants a thirty-day free negotiation period for both parties to agree terms to negotiate, finalize, execute, and file a contract for the bout, with purse bids taking place fifteen days after the expiration of that deadline. The WBC didn't abide by their own rule, because on the 4th May they said that this would apply to the Canelo-GGG negotiations, but then moved the goalposts a week later.

I’m not saying that ‘Deleted_Scenes’ didn’t raise some interesting points, but rather than get embroiled in minutiae, I’d prefer to doggedly stand by my original stance, which was that the WBC made a huge mistake, resulting in Canelo and GBP taking the brunt of the blame for Mauricio Sulaiman’s actions.

And this common misconception has more to do with people's dislike of Canelo rather than an appreciation of the truth.

[Enlightened-One]

"Billy Joe Saunders open to moving up to 175 to beat Canelo"

Billy Joe Saunders wants Canelo next - at any weight

"I might move up to 175lbs and then I become mandatory to him. He either fights me or vacates. Give me a fair playing field and I know I have the beating of him. I do have the lock to undo 'Canelo'. I'm feeling the best I have, I'm ready to rock and roll, I want these big fights."

[apollo creed]

So on the 4th May, Mauricio Sulaiman announced there would be a thirty-day period of negotiations, commencing a week after the Canelo-Khan bout, for the winner to agree terms to face GGG, otherwise the rights to stage the fight would go to purse bids.

The WBC's head honcho did this knowing full-well, since the 22nd January, that both Canelo and GBP would be forced to attend court for the $24m All-Star Boxing lawsuit during the week commencing the 23rd May. Both parties were being sued (breach by Canelo and contract interference by GBP).

Three days after the Canelo-Khan bout, on the 10th May, the WBC then imposed a fifteen-day negotiation period for Alvarez and Golovkin to agree terms, with the purse-bid deadline set for the 24th May.

Verify the dates that correspond to each point I’ve raised. You’ll surely appreciate that the WBC put Canelo in an impossible position, which led to a 2½ feud between Mauricio Sulaiman and Saul Alvarez.

I’m not making this up. It happened.

Fights between two competitors aren't negotiated, the terms agreed and contracts signed when both participants already have bouts lined-up against other opponents. It's extremely rare for this to happen.

Where have I disputed the timeline?

If you want to talk facts, it's a fact that the WBC gave Canelo 15 days, commencing November 22nd 2015 (the day after he beat Cotto), to begin negotiations to fight Golovkin. Nothing happened. Oscar spent the time talking about 'marination'.

The WBC then (in mid December) agreed to allow interim bouts in the spring, on condition they fought each other in September. Eric Gomez said that the complexity of arranging a mega fight was the main reason for the postponement. May was too soon. It needed to be later in the year.

Tell me, if November to May (almost 6 months) is too short a time period to negotiate and promote the fight, why would May to September (only 4 months, even without the 2nd WBC deadline) be enough? You want us to believe negotiations don't happen until after the interim fights, right? I'm calling you out on that point. If they want the fight to happen in September, they use the extra time to negotiate with Golovkin's team, as Gomez stated. They may not have every single detail agreed, and contracts signed, but if they want the fight to happen, they at least have a broad idea of what the terms would be, before the Khan fight. They (professional business people) certainly don't spend the time sitting on their thumbs, while knowing there's a fixed time for the fight to happen by. Sometimes, as Canelo has done himself, contracts do also get signed beforehand.

It's also very common, where promoters have been negotiating and feel there's a good chance of reaching agreement, to request a delay to purse bids, in order to allow terms to be finalised (and presumably to allow Canelo to get his court case dealt with). Was any such request made?

Canelo spat his dummy out instead, because he wasn't being allowed to have that one detail entirely his own way, after months of the WBC making concessions in his favour.

Was it a harsh deadline to set, on the part of the WBC? Yes.
Was it unexpected? No.
Did anyone request a delay to purse bids, based on an unchanged fight date? No.

To focus on May only, is to ignore 6 full months of events, where Canelo and his team were fully aware they had to fight Golovkin. They were fully aware of that, the second they jumped the queue to fight Cotto.

Stop your cherry picking.

Damn , I have to commend your accurate-quality long reply. You owned EO with his own weapon.

[apollo creed]

EO you really need to ask yourself, are you listening or are you simply arguing? If you are not listening, you’re not learning. I suggest you re-read deleted scenes post. It’s very clear and reasonable.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hadn’t factored in the time post the Cotto fight or factored in who Canelo chose to fight post this. Nevertheless it has brought some interesting discussion. However it’s mostly clear in my opinion. Unless you’re able to bring something new rather than repeating yourself then it’s probably time to say goodnight.

OK, fair enough.

The reason I’ve doubled-down on making the same point again-and-again is that the preferred narrative is to criticise Canelo, even though the situation was orchestrated by the WBC.

And people are blaming Canelo and GBP, based on incorrect assumptions about how fights are negotiated.

For instance, how many examples can you provide of fights that have been negotiated and contracts signed-up whilst both competitors were already committed to engaging in other bouts against other opponents beforehand? It's very rare and certainly not the norm!

I’ve also checked the WBC’s own rules and it grants a thirty-day free negotiation period for both parties to agree terms to negotiate, finalize, execute, and file a contract for the bout, with purse bids taking place fifteen days after the expiration of that deadline. The WBC didn't abide by their own rule, because on the 4th May they said that this would apply to the Canelo-GGG negotiations, but then moved the goalposts a week later.

I’m not saying that ‘Deleted_Scenes’ didn’t raise some interesting points, but rather than get embroiled in minutiae, I’d prefer to doggedly stand by my original stance, which was that the WBC made a huge mistake, resulting in Canelo and GBP taking the brunt of the blame for Mauricio Sulaiman’s actions.

And this common misconception has more to do with people's dislike of Canelo rather than an appreciation of the truth.

Son, stop cloaking your own opinions in a veneer of bullshit while pretending that you're in fact impartial.

[apollo creed]

Saunders just wants to cash in vs Canelo. Now it's up to Canelo to give him this opportunity.

[lazboy]

EO you really need to ask yourself, are you listening or are you simply arguing? If you are not listening, you’re not learning. I suggest you re-read deleted scenes post. It’s very clear and reasonable.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you hadn’t factored in the time post the Cotto fight or factored in who Canelo chose to fight post this. Nevertheless it has brought some interesting discussion. However it’s mostly clear in my opinion. Unless you’re able to bring something new rather than repeating yourself then it’s probably time to say goodnight.

OK, fair enough.

The reason I’ve doubled-down on making the same point again-and-again is that the preferred narrative is to criticise Canelo, even though the situation was orchestrated by the WBC.

And people are blaming Canelo and GBP, based on incorrect assumptions about how fights are negotiated.

For instance, how many examples can you provide of fights that have been negotiated and contracts signed-up whilst both competitors were already committed to engaging in other bouts against other opponents beforehand? It's very rare and certainly not the norm!

I’ve also checked the WBC’s own rules and it grants a thirty-day free negotiation period for both parties to agree terms to negotiate, finalize, execute, and file a contract for the bout, with purse bids taking place fifteen days after the expiration of that deadline. The WBC didn't abide by their own rule, because on the 4th May they said that this would apply to the Canelo-GGG negotiations, but then moved the goalposts a week later.

I’m not saying that ‘Deleted_Scenes’ didn’t raise some interesting points, but rather than get embroiled in minutiae, I’d prefer to doggedly stand by my original stance, which was that the WBC made a huge mistake, resulting in Canelo and GBP taking the brunt of the blame for Mauricio Sulaiman’s actions.

And this common misconception has more to do with people's dislike of Canelo rather than an appreciation of the truth.

Ok thanks for responding maturely.

In response to the bolded question. I agree with deleted scenes in which negotiation can take place at any time, before or after. I believe it would be common for parties to be communicating and negotiating for their client at any time, in the best interests of their client rather than waiting on a small window or direction from a governing body. In terms of the contracts being signed, it is a possibility however I don't know how common given I don't work in the field. However, contracts can be conditional on an event occurring or not, such as Fighter A defeating Fighter B.

In terms of examples, one other poster mentioned one that is relevant. Following Canelo defeating Chavez jr, it seemed immediately apparent that the Canelo GGG 1 fight had been made. From memory, even a date had been set. Clearly negotiation had taken place and some agreement reached.

Another recent example, also featuring Canelo was his fight with Kovalev. It was clear that negotiation had taken place prior to Kovalev fighting Yarde. No idea whether it was signed although it was announced soon after.

From memory, I also recall Anthony Joshua v Klitschko being set immediately following AJ's victory over Molina.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Saunders just wants to cash in vs Canelo. Now it's up to Canelo to give him this opportunity.

Don't really see what BJS Saunders brings to the table. Canelo doesn't need his belt and Saunders isn't even a draw in the UK.

I expect Saunders career to just fizzle out due to lack of interest.