Playing the Devil's Advocate for the Great Mike McCallum?

[Onetimeonly]

He had a pretty significant cut against Tommy.

[elmersalsa]

Nobody said there weren't other extraordinary fighters. People have just argued that McCallum isn't on the same level as the four mentioned, and that they didn't duck him. That's all.

And I am saying that he was a good as any of the Fab 4 combined. I think that he was in THE SAME LEVEL of the Fab 4. He just didn't get his due.

[tiny_acres]

Nobody said there weren't other extraordinary fighters. People have just argued that McCallum isn't on the same level as the four mentioned, and that they didn't duck him. That's all.

And I am saying that he was a good as any of the Fab 4 combined. I think that he was in THE SAME LEVEL of the Fab 4. He just didn't get his due.

I've always been a huge McCallum fan.
He would of gave the fab 4 hell.

[Petu v.d. Pajm]

I am a huge McCallum fan and believe he could have taken Hearns, Leonard and Duran. Not 1985 or earlier Hagler, though.

However, Alp etc. are absolutely correct saying there was no public clamor or any hype for McCallum of getting shots at Fab4. Donald Curry was the NAME which was built up as a "next generation superstar" all the way through Honeyghan-loss (weightmaking-excuse fully gobbled up by boxing press) and to his meeting with Body Snatcher.

EVERY pre-fight article I have ever read about McCallum vs Curry had Curry to win, likely by a stoppage. Curry was a clear favorite in betting too. Was the press and wider audience wrong - not only about the result but overall greatness of McCallum compared to Curry? Retrospectively yes - massively.

But this is speaking with a hindsight. Good for elmer to have recognised Mike's talents before most did. You were proven to be correct.

It just doesn't give any factual base for revisionist history writing about any proposed McCallum-fights having had much wind in the sails UNTIL he kayoed Donald Curry in 1987.

Btw - while Mike McCallum TKO2 Julian Jackson is a magnificent, impressive result looked upon a record sheet today...

Hawk had been hidden well out of sight knocking out bums in the deep undercards of Don King extravaganzas. McCallum-Jackson / Lora-Enrique Sanchez doubleheader didn't get any major tv coverage in USA either. As dangerous as Jackson was, as much legacy-builder as that win is for McCallum - at the time whole fight barely registered for a wider audience. Only for few diehards (including myself). I think that the main star of the show was "Happy" Lora who at least hed the support of sizable Colombian contingent in South Florida.

[elmersalsa]

I am a huge McCallum fan and believe he could have taken Hearns, Leonard and Duran. Not 1985 or earlier Hagler, though.

However, Alp etc. are absolutely correct saying there was no public clamor or any hype for McCallum of getting shots at Fab4. Donald Curry was the NAME which was built up as a "next generation superstar" all the way through Honeyghan-loss (weightmaking-excuse fully gobbled up by boxing press) and to his meeting with Body Snatcher.

EVERY pre-fight article I have ever read about McCallum vs Curry had Curry to win, likely by a stoppage. Curry was a clear favorite in betting too. Was the press and wider audience wrong - not only about the result but overall greatness of McCallum compared to Curry? Retrospectively yes - massively.

But this is speaking with a hindsight. Good for elmer to have recognised Mike's talents before most did. You were proven to be correct.

It just doesn't give any factual base for revisionist history writing about any proposed McCallum-fights having had much wind in the sails UNTIL he kayoed Donald Curry in 1987.

Btw - while Mike McCallum TKO2 Julian Jackson is a magnificent, impressive result looked upon a record sheet today...

Hawk had been hidden well out of sight knocking out bums in the deep undercards of Don King extravaganzas. McCallum-Jackson / Lora-Enrique Sanchez doubleheader didn't get any major tv coverage in USA either. As dangerous as Jackson was, as much legacy-builder as that win is for McCallum - at the time whole fight barely registered for a wider audience. Only for few diehards (including myself). I think that the main star of the show was "Happy" Lora who at least hed the support of sizable Colombian contingent in South Florida.

[Ambling Alp II]

elmer, Did you even read his whole post? I bet not. You probably skimmed it as usual.

He said "However, Alp etc. are absolutely correct saying there was no public clamor or any hype for McCallum of getting shots at Fab4. "

This has been one of my and others main points all along.

[elmersalsa]

elmer, Did you even read his whole post? I bet not. You probably skimmed it as usual.

He said "However, Alp etc. are absolutely correct saying there was no public clamor or any hype for McCallum of getting shots at Fab4. "

This has been one of my and others main points all along.

I never said that there was a clamor for the Fab 4 by fight McCallum. I remember the times. I was there. I remember the 80s decade. No promoter was pushing a fight with him. But, That doesn't mean he wasn't noticed.

The Fab 4 knew his potential. They knew that the Jamaican was a great champion.

[Ambling Alp II]

Pretty sure you weren't the only one who remembers the times.

[elmersalsa]

Mike McCallum was a badass! The more I see him fight, the more I appreciate his craft.

[cfang]

This hagler ducked McCallum stuff is a total joke.

Hagler fought hearns Apr 85 Mike m just one defence of a lt middle title
Hagler fought mugabi mar 86 (number 1 middle contender in all three bodies) Mike m just two defences of a lt middle crown
Apr 87 hagler fought Leonard biggest fight out there then retired.

At no point was Mike m a credible or considered contender for haglers middle crown.

Mar 88 mcallum fought kalumbay for the wba middle crown...and lost.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes but Kalambay was a legend. He lasted almost an entire round against Michael Nunn.

[elmersalsa]

This hagler ducked McCallum stuff is a total joke.

Hagler fought hearns Apr 85 Mike m just one defence of a lt middle title
Hagler fought mugabi mar 86 (number 1 middle contender in all three bodies) Mike m just two defences of a lt middle crown
Apr 87 hagler fought Leonard biggest fight out there then retired.

At no point was Mike m a credible or considered contender for haglers middle crown.

Mar 88 mcallum fought kalumbay for the wba middle crown...and lost.

Marvelous had the whole of 1985 and 1986 to fight The Body Snatcher. He could have fought him late 1985 or late 1986. Only Marvelous knows why the Jamaican wasn't in his plans.

[Ambling Alp II]

Obviously Hagler was a scaredy cat. Just like Duran, who never fought Antonio Cervantes.

[littlepug]

It just boils down to the fact that it was an era of so called Superfights and those fights generated big paydays, the risk/reward just didn’t balance out for McCallum

[elmersalsa]

Obviously Hagler was a scaredy cat. Just like Duran, who never fought Antonio Cervantes.

Duran was the one that wanted to fight Antonio Cervantes aka Kid Pambele. Pambele ignored him. Well, Pambele's management team ignored Duran.

[Onetimeonly]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

[gilgamesh]

Moore never fought Paul Andrews, Erich Schoeppner, Chic Calderwood, or Doug Jones.

Griffith never fought Curtis Cokes, Luis Fredrico Thompson, or Willie Ludick.

Marvelous could have fight McCallum by 1985 or '86. Marvelous fought twice in 2 years.

What is the excuse for that?

Making more money than he ever had in his life up to that point, and taking the time to live it up, and enjoy it would be my guess.

[Onetimeonly]

Marvelous could have fight McCallum by 1985 or '86. Marvelous fought twice in 2 years.

What is the excuse for that?

Making more money than he ever had in his life up to that point, and taking the time to live it up, and enjoy it would be my guess.

That, and McCallum never showed any interest in fighting Marvin. He probably had 30 stitches against Tommy and the mugabi fight wasn't exactly an easy one. After that was to be the hearns rematch but Leonard came calling and ray needed time for gym fights which was certainly reasonable after 3 years. Mike wasn't in the middle conversation until he, conveniently moved up after Marvin retired.

[Nile4000]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

Maybe he knew, that Antonio could have beaten him, ruined his plans.

[Onetimeonly]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

Maybe he knew, that Antonio could have beaten him, ruined his plans.

Only Duran will ever know why he didn't want to fight him

[Duran1970]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

100 % false

[Onetimeonly]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

100 % false

[Duran1970]

Touche...ya got me.

[Onetimeonly]

Touche...ya got me.

You can't be expected to read or keep up with all of Elmer's bullshit.

[elmersalsa]

Cervantes said he called Duran and asked for a fight and Roberto said no. Antonio's manager said Duran didn't want to fight him.

There's a tape when Duran was on all Cervantes' face after Cervantes beat Esteban De Jesus in Panama. He even wanted to fight him for free if it was possible.