Wilder's title reign (pre Ortiz II)

[oogiebe]

Don't focus in on one. Tyson was top five ranked during Wlad's first reign. Believe me, I'm not saying Mike stood a chance. Again, and it's not against you, but I'm tired of folks saying Wlad fought the best in a weak era. He didn't.

Pretty much no one fights everyone out there. And his career spanned multiple eras really, even with a belt he was still upcoming as a 20 something year old back in the early 2000s. He absolutely was fighting at pretty much the highest levels out there in his big reign.

Tyson, Holyfield, Tua...these guys were all pretty much done by the early 2000s, getting clowned by the likes of Byrd, Toney, etc.

Tua wasn't peak but he was far from done in the early 2000's. Wlad chose low ranked contenders for most of his defenses in his early reigns.

[oogiebe]

Don't focus in on one. Tyson was top five ranked during Wlad's first reign. Believe me, I'm not saying Mike stood a chance. Again, and it's not against you, but I'm tired of folks saying Wlad fought the best in a weak era. He didn't.

You don't think Mike Tyson had a chance against Wlad in 2000? Totally disagree. Wlad crapped his pants under Corrie Sanders' attacks! I'd give Tyson a serious chance to stopping Wlad in 1. This thread has deviated wildly from the OP.

My summary: Wladimir fought awful opponents and avoided a lot of good ones. He got KOd by awful opponents. All of his awful opponents were ranked somewhere in the top 10. That doesn't matter. Sorry to everybody for derailing this thread.

Don't know about round 1, but Tyson still had power and that's all you need on Wlad's crystal whiskers. ALl the guys I mentioned who Wlad didn't fight could have beaten him.

[margaret thatcher]

Pretty much no one fights everyone out there. And his career spanned multiple eras really, even with a belt he was still upcoming as a 20 something year old back in the early 2000s. He absolutely was fighting at pretty much the highest levels out there in his big reign.

Tyson, Holyfield, Tua...these guys were all pretty much done by the early 2000s, getting clowned by the likes of Byrd, Toney, etc.

Tua wasn't peak but he was far from done in the early 2000's. Wlad chose low ranked contenders for most of his defenses in his early reigns.

Tua was last a top 10 HW in 2003, I don't really think it's a big deal Wlad never fought him or Tyson (lol) or Holyfield. Agree his early stuff was weaker

By the end though, he stepped it up at least with what was there, and fought many many ranked opponents, and not just low ranked ones. He fought like 8 top #3 ring ranked opponents alone--that's not just feeding on unranked or the lowest of the ranked. He fought at least 4 opponents who had #1 rankings outside his brother.

Totally fine with saying he pretty much fought the best of a weak era.. 2002 was a different era from 2010 anyway and it's pretty obvious

[oogiebe]

Tua wasn't peak but he was far from done in the early 2000's. Wlad chose low ranked contenders for most of his defenses in his early reigns.

Tua was last a top 10 HW in 2003, I don't really think it's a big deal Wlad never fought him or Tyson (lol) or Holyfield. Agree his early stuff was weaker

By the end though, he stepped it up at least with what was there, and fought many many ranked opponents, and not just low ranked ones. He fought like 8 top #3 ring ranked opponents alone, and double digit--that's not just feeding on unranked or the lowest of the ranked.

Totally fine with saying he pretty much fought the best of a weak era.. 2002 was a different era from 2010 anyway and it's pretty obvious

He stepped it up when the division was at its worst. Once he lost to Purity, he was carefully matched. Then he lost to Sanders and Brewster and his handlers ran scared of punchers with the exception of Peter as they had little choice if they wanted a title shot.

[margaret thatcher]

Yep, the division sucked, but he still fought loads of ranked opponents, like I claimed. Ali's later career was mentioned, so working with Wlad's later career you get pretty much the best that was there. Obviously he didn't fight every single ranked guy, that never happens, but just using Ring Magazine since that was the standard and easy to use, he fought like 8 top 3 rated fighters, around 10 top 5 fighters and around 15 top 10 rated fighters. At least 4 times he fought the next highest rated aside from his bro and himself.

Agree he was weak early on, but 2002 is a different era. Obviously when you win a title at 24 and are still in title fights at 41 you have competed in mulitiple eras.

[oogiebe]

Yep, the division sucked, but he still fought loads of ranked opponents, like I claimed. Ali's later career was mentioned, so working with Wlad's later career you get pretty much the best that was there. Obviously he didn't fight every single ranked guy, that never happens, but just using Ring Magazine since that was the standard and easy to use, he fought like 8 top 3 rated fighters, around 10 top 5 fighters and around 15 top 10 rated fighters. At least 4 times he fought the next highest rated aside from his bro and himself.

Agree he was weak early on, but 2002 is a different era. Obviously when you win a title at 24 and are still in title fights at 41 you have competed in mulitiple eras.

If only he fought his brother, all this lineal shvt would be clear. But they promised their mum...

[margaret thatcher]

just saying that to say he fought the best of his day doesn't wash. Here's Top 10 ranked fighters who he didn't fight during one of his reigns:
John Ruiz 4 years older
David Tua 4 years older
James Tony 8 years older
Luis Ortiz (WBA #2 2012)
Evander Holyfield 14 years older
Lennox Lewis 11 years older
Mike Tyson 11 years older
Oliver McCall 11 years older

Look at the ages, these guys weren't apart of all Wlad's eras except maybe Ruiz in the last one, when he got KO'd by Haye and lost to Chagaev. So you can say Wlad still pretty much fought the best of a certain era without fighting these guys.

Luis Ortiz in 2012 lol? A total unknown with zero notable results. Ortiz didn't get a meaningful win until shortly before Wlad lost his belts to Fury.

[margaret thatcher]

Yep, the division sucked, but he still fought loads of ranked opponents, like I claimed. Ali's later career was mentioned, so working with Wlad's later career you get pretty much the best that was there. Obviously he didn't fight every single ranked guy, that never happens, but just using Ring Magazine since that was the standard and easy to use, he fought like 8 top 3 rated fighters, around 10 top 5 fighters and around 15 top 10 rated fighters. At least 4 times he fought the next highest rated aside from his bro and himself.

Agree he was weak early on, but 2002 is a different era. Obviously when you win a title at 24 and are still in title fights at 41 you have competed in mulitiple eras.

If only he fought his brother, all this lineal shvt would be clear. But they promised their mum...

I can't blame them, that is some serious sh!t too fight your brother.

[margaret thatcher]

Was actually surprised to see Tua was as young as he was, he was on the downside and had already gotten his last notable win pretty much around 30....

[oogiebe]

just saying that to say he fought the best of his day doesn't wash. Here's Top 10 ranked fighters who he didn't fight during one of his reigns:
John Ruiz 4 years older
David Tua 4 years older
James Tony 8 years older
Luis Ortiz (WBA #2 2012)
Evander Holyfield 14 years older
Lennox Lewis 11 years older
Mike Tyson 11 years older
Oliver McCall 11 years older

Look at the ages, these guys weren't apart of all Wlad's eras except maybe Ruiz in the last one, when he got KO'd by Haye and lost to Chagaev. So you can say Wlad still pretty much fought the best of a certain era without fighting these guys.

Luis Ortiz in 2012 lol? A total unknown with zero notable results. Ortiz didn't get a meaningful win until shortly before Wlad lost his belts to Fury.

He was WBA number 2 Ranked HW. If they were so past it, why didn't he fight any of them? Plus the one's you didn't mention. I'm just making a point. You can keep on debating it, but I made my point. He didn't the all the best of his weak era.

[oogiebe]

If only he fought his brother, all this lineal shvt would be clear. But they promised their mum...

I can't blame them, that is some serious sh!t too fight your brother.

I don't think anyone blames them.

[margaret thatcher]

He was in multiple eras, in his final reign he got about as close to fighting the best there as you'll have. No one literally fights every guy.

Not denying his first reign was weak, just showing how clearly guys like Tyson are totally irrelevant to the question of his later reign in a totally different era. Ruiz was the only one still fighting at a half decent level and he still lost to Chagaev and got totally battered by Haye

Why exactly do guys like Mike Tyson make it an error to say Wlad fought pretty much the best of a later era?

[oogiebe]

He was in multiple eras, in his final reign he got about as close to fighting the best there as you'll have. No one literally fights every guy.

Not denying his first reign was weak, just showing how clearly guys like Tyson are totally irrelevant to the question of his later reign in a totally different era. Ruiz was the only one still fighting at a half decent level and he still lost to Chagaev and got totally battered by Haye

Why exactly do guys like Mike Tyson make it an error to say Wlad fought pretty much the best of a later era?

Didn't say latter era. Was covering his title reigns. You added that. (I think )

[margaret thatcher]

He was in multiple eras, in his final reign he got about as close to fighting the best there as you'll have. No one literally fights every guy.

Not denying his first reign was weak, just showing how clearly guys like Tyson are totally irrelevant to the question of his later reign in a totally different era. Ruiz was the only one still fighting at a half decent level and he still lost to Chagaev and got totally battered by Haye

Why exactly do guys like Mike Tyson make it an error to say Wlad fought pretty much the best of a later era?

Didn't say latter era. Was covering his title reigns. You added that. (I think )

You said: "This is about saying Wlad fought the best of his weak era. It just ain't the truth." ---my comment is that you can't just group him into 1 era when he was in title fights for almost 20 years. He didn't fight the best of an era which included old Tyson, but he did pretty much of a latter one

And he had multiple title reigns. Nothing about Mike Tyson or Oliver McCall is really that relevant to his final one that lasted years.. In that one he fought loads of rated opponents, though yes, the division sucked

[TheGman]

Don't focus in on one. Tyson was top five ranked during Wlad's first reign. Believe me, I'm not saying Mike stood a chance. Again, and it's not against you, but I'm tired of folks saying Wlad fought the best in a weak era. He didn't.

You don't think Mike Tyson had a chance against Wlad in 2000? Totally disagree. Wlad crapped his pants under Corrie Sanders' attacks! I'd give Tyson a serious chance to stopping Wlad in 1. This thread has deviated wildly from the OP.

My summary: Wladimir fought awful opponents and avoided a lot of good ones. He got KOd by awful opponents. All of his awful opponents were ranked somewhere in the top 10. That doesn't matter. Sorry to everybody for derailing this thread.

Mike tyson fought Lennox Lewis in 2002 wlad was WBO champ in 2000 and on the border of world title class for 2 years previous to this,he was in mike tysons era ans if they would have fought i think tyson would of k.oed wlad,look at the way Tyson came out against Lewis it was like Tyson had turned back the clock for 3 rounds. The klitschko brother chose to stay away from prime LL from EH and from MT id go as far as they even stayed away from James Toney.

[Wee Tommy]

Yep, the division sucked, but he still fought loads of ranked opponents, like I claimed. Ali's later career was mentioned, so working with Wlad's later career you get pretty much the best that was there. Obviously he didn't fight every single ranked guy, that never happens, but just using Ring Magazine since that was the standard and easy to use, he fought like 8 top 3 rated fighters, around 10 top 5 fighters and around 15 top 10 rated fighters. At least 4 times he fought the next highest rated aside from his bro and himself.

Agree he was weak early on, but 2002 is a different era. Obviously when you win a title at 24 and are still in title fights at 41 you have competed in mulitiple eras.

If only he fought his brother, all this lineal shvt would be clear. But they promised their mum...

Truthfully? You’d want two brothers to fight, as if to the death, just to satisfy yourself? Can’t get my head round that shit

[oogiebe]

If only he fought his brother, all this lineal shvt would be clear. But they promised their mum...

Truthfully? You’d want two brothers to fight, as if to the death, just to satisfy yourself? Can’t get my head round that poo

Not at all. Don't misconstrue. My point being that because they were brothers, the HW scene during that time was less 'settled.' I thought I already explained that.

[skanksta]

My summary.
I've never given Wilder much credit for anything. He's clumsy, spindly and handpicks soft opponents. All but two-and-a-half of his defences were against rubbish. He was very lucky to skank a draw with Fury.
He's basically a one-trick-pony he can't really box.

NOW, I realise, WHAT A ONE TRICK !
All of the criticisms above are still true, but his one-shot power is probably the best ever.
He's deeply flawed and beatable, but he'd have a chance against anyone in history on a good night.
Welcome to the elite club Sir Bronze of Bomber

[oogiebe]

My summary.
I've never given Wilder much credit for anything. He's clumsy, spindly and handpicks soft opponents. All but two-and-a-half of his defences were against rubbish. He was very lucky to skank a draw with Fury.
He's basically a one-trick-pony he can't really box.

NOW, I realise, WHAT A ONE TRICK !
All of the criticisms above are still true, but his one-shot power is probably the best ever.
He's deeply flawed and beatable, but he'd have a chance against anyone in history on a good night.
Welcome to the elite club Sir Bronze of Bomber

Can't really argue here.

[ewenhay]

Truthfully? You’d want two brothers to fight, as if to the death, just to satisfy yourself? Can’t get my head round that poo

Not at all. Don't misconstrue. My point being that because they were brothers, the HW scene during that time was less 'settled.' I thought I already explained that.

It was worse than that.

They effectively carved up the division between them. Picking opponents that favoured each other's style.

This one fights Vitali, this one fights Wladimir.
If you want to fight Wladimir and you happen to beat him despite all the loaded clauses you then must fight Vitali and vice versa and so on.

It was bollocks and went on for an eternity, almost killing heavyweight boxing in the process.

Everyone knocks Fury and he doesn't help himself sometimes but he should be praised to the rooftops for going to Germany, not taking any cr*p and edging that decision. Yeah the fight wasn't great but there's a bigger picture.

Problem is, history tends to repeat itself so you need a Fury and a Ruiz and the likes to come along every now and again and mix things up. With multiple belts too many long term champions not fighting each other is bad for the division.

[oogiebe]

Not at all. Don't misconstrue. My point being that because they were brothers, the HW scene during that time was less 'settled.' I thought I already explained that.

It was worse than that.

They effectively carved up the division between them. Picking opponents that favoured each other's style.

This one fights Vitali, this one fights Wladimir.
If you want to fight Wladimir and you happen to beat him despite all the loaded clauses you then must fight Vitali and vice versa and so on.

It was bollocks and went on for an eternity, almost killing heavyweight boxing in the process.

Everyone knocks Fury and he doesn't help himself sometimes but he should be praised to the rooftops for going to Germany, not taking any cr*p and edging that decision. Yeah the fight wasn't great but there's a bigger picture.

Problem is, history tends to repeat itself so you need a Fury and a Ruiz and the likes to come along every now and again and mix things up. With multiple belts too many long term champions not fighting each other is bad for the division.

Hmmm...I know they both fought Puritty; Byrd; Sanders and Peters. The first three were brotherly revenge fights. Were there more?

[ewenhay]

It was worse than that.

They effectively carved up the division between them. Picking opponents that favoured each other's style.

This one fights Vitali, this one fights Wladimir.
If you want to fight Wladimir and you happen to beat him despite all the loaded clauses you then must fight Vitali and vice versa and so on.

It was bollocks and went on for an eternity, almost killing heavyweight boxing in the process.

Everyone knocks Fury and he doesn't help himself sometimes but he should be praised to the rooftops for going to Germany, not taking any cr*p and edging that decision. Yeah the fight wasn't great but there's a bigger picture.

Problem is, history tends to repeat itself so you need a Fury and a Ruiz and the likes to come along every now and again and mix things up. With multiple belts too many long term champions not fighting each other is bad for the division.

Hmmm...I know they both fought Puritty; Byrd; Sanders and Peters. The first three were brotherly revenge fights. Were there more?

I can't remember the exact numbers and alleged clauses in all the contracts off the top of my head but it felt good to get that rant off my chest!

[oogiebe]

Hmmm...I know they both fought Puritty; Byrd; Sanders and Peters. The first three were brotherly revenge fights. Were there more?

I can't remember the exact numbers and alleged clauses in all the contracts off the top of my head but it felt good to get that rant off my chest!

I couldn't wait for the Klitchko eras to end.

[tiny_acres]

I can't remember the exact numbers and alleged clauses in all the contracts off the top of my head but it felt good to get that rant off my chest!

I couldn't wait for the Klitchko eras to end.

I waited for years to finally make the post Fury licked Klit

[margaret thatcher]

What opponents did they cherry pick for each other based on style? Lol , are we thinking the likes of Adamek or Arreola or Solis etc would've been big bad news for Wlad? Does Vit not beat Chagaev or Thompson or Chambers etc?