Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?

[Wee Tommy]

Post the 13th round of Robinson vs Lamotta where Robinson won the title...by beating Lamotta up on the inside

Outside too of course, but I specifically remember the finally assault of the fight being a bit of a shoe shine series of uppercuts where he's all up on Lamotta.

Your wish...(that's the one I was going to post! )

Frightening toughness. Who is there in boxing now that can claim to be 50% as durable?

[Wee Tommy]

Elmer, you are a rascist imbecile. Alp and onetime have already put you in your place using facts. Now you say white guys cant fight Arsehole of a guy.

The Choir CHURCH Boy put me in my place?
I'm a racist? You don't even know the meaning of racist.
Did I say that white guys can't fight? I think someone in here got reading comprehension skills so fuucked up. Be your own man, bro.

I’m simply pointing out facts to you, bro. Here’s your quote “ Anybody can have a 131-1-1 record fighting the majority white fighters that can't fight. ”

You think that statement, in relation to Robinson’s competition, is accurate?

[elmersalsa]

Watch Roberto Duran inside game.
Watch Eusebio Pedroza inside game.
Watch Salvador Sanchez inside game
Watch Marvelous inside game.

Robinson in that department got a lot to be desired.

Duran, pedroza, Sanchez nor Marvin could get to the easily obtainable 131-1

Put those same opponents in their respective weight classes and all those guys be 131-1.

Marvelous had to go to Philadelphia to fight guys that NOBODY wanted to fight. I don't see Sugar Ray did that. He totally disappeared when The Black Murderer's Row were around.

[Onetimeonly]

Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer...I'm sure there are others. Hell he stopped Lamotta battering him on the inside for that matter.

If you think he's not the best boxer that ever lived. That's a fair enough point, and an argument can certainly be made there. If you think he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever. Well...I've just proven you wrong.

No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.

Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.

Since you saw all his greatest fights on film can I borrow, buy or can you direct me to the gavilan bouts?

[elmersalsa]

The Choir CHURCH Boy put me in my place?
I'm a racist? You don't even know the meaning of racist.
Did I say that white guys can't fight? I think someone in here got reading comprehension skills so fuucked up. Be your own man, bro.

I’m simply pointing out facts to you, bro. Here’s your quote “ Anybody can have a 131-1-1 record fighting the majority white fighters that can't fight. ”

You think that statement, in relation to Robinson’s competition, is accurate?

Those white guys could not fight. They could not carry your jockstrap. How about that?

[Onetimeonly]

Duran, pedroza, Sanchez nor Marvin could get to the easily obtainable 131-1

Put those same opponents in their respective weight classes and all those guys be 131-1.

Marvelous had to go to Philadelphia to fight guys that NOBODY wanted to fight. I don't see Sugar Ray did that. He totally disappeared when The Black Murderer's Row were around.

Duran fought til he was 50 and didn't have 132 fights and he lost to Pat Lawler! Enough Elmer, stop being a trolling cock. This nonstop garbage is banworthy.

[elmersalsa]

Put those same opponents in their respective weight classes and all those guys be 131-1.

Marvelous had to go to Philadelphia to fight guys that NOBODY wanted to fight. I don't see Sugar Ray did that. He totally disappeared when The Black Murderer's Row were around.

Duran fought til he was 50 and didn't have 132 fights and he lost to Pat Lawler! Enough Elmer, stop being a trolling cock. This nonstop garbage is banworthy.

Robinson never went 4 weight classes above his natural weight which was Welterweight. Once he went to light-heavyweight, Joey Maxim sent him back to the middleweights.

[Onetimeonly]

Duran fought til he was 50 and didn't have 132 fights and he lost to Pat Lawler! Enough Elmer, stop being a trolling cock. This nonstop garbage is banworthy.

Robinson never went 4 weight classes above his natural weight which was Welterweight. Once he went to light-heavyweight, Joey Maxim sent him back to the middleweights.

He started at lightweight and fought at light heavyweight. That's four, in Duran's day it would be 7. Stop embarrassing yourself. The transparency is cringe worthy and you lack the intelligence to even do the trolling you're attempting. While your stubbornness and bias has always been frustrating I never doubted you were a true fan of the sport. Is your goal to drive a nail into what's left of this forum? Lose any smidgeon of respect anyone has for your take? If it is, well done jackass. I won't reply to you again.

[AntonioMartin]

He certainly has a great record but he only made five WW title defences, Jimmy Doyle, Bernard Docusen, Chuck Taylor, Kid Gaviliian and Charley Fusari but had something like 30+ non-title fights in between. Then he had a yo-yo title reign at MW. Personally I've never understood why winning a title several times is seen as a big deal, surely its better not to lose it in the first place. For a great fighter his title reigns weren't that strong but he was obviously a great fighter.

Totally depends on the quality of the opposition. Against Robinson's middleweight opp, you're not going to keep the belt. Against Hopkins' championship opposition.... Who is there to lose to?

This is very true, although I have to say, I dislike Hopkins but in his defense I must point out, Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik, Winky Wright and Roy Jones Jr were all there to lose to, and he beat them all (1-1 vs Jones Jr.)

[Duran1970]

Armstrong was almost certainly a better inside fighter than Robinson considering that's mainly what his style was built around, but for the record he lost to Ray.

Henry was already washed up. Two different styles. One can't box, and the other can't fight inside.

Henry Armstrong couldn't box???? Now I heard everything

[Wee Tommy]

I’m simply pointing out facts to you, bro. Here’s your quote “ Anybody can have a 131-1-1 record fighting the majority white fighters that can't fight. ”

You think that statement, in relation to Robinson’s competition, is accurate?

Those white guys could not fight. They could not carry your jockstrap. How about that?

You are a danger to yourself but not others. How about that?

[Controversial]

Armstrong was almost certainly a better inside fighter than Robinson considering that's mainly what his style was built around, but for the record he lost to Ray.

To be fair SRR carried his hero and friend Armstrong in that fight to give him a payday, hardly a punch was thrown in anger. Armstrong was on the decline and retired after that fight before making another comeback.

[elmersalsa]

Robinson never went 4 weight classes above his natural weight which was Welterweight. Once he went to light-heavyweight, Joey Maxim sent him back to the middleweights.

He started at lightweight and fought at light heavyweight. That's four, in Duran's day it would be 7. Stop embarrassing yourself. The transparency is cringe worthy and you lack the intelligence to even do the trolling you're attempting. While your stubbornness and bias has always been frustrating I never doubted you were a true fan of the sport. Is your goal to drive a nail into what's left of this forum? Lose any smidgeon of respect anyone has for your take? If it is, well done jackass. I won't reply to you again.

You don't have to reply, asshole. Have a nice day.

[elmersalsa]

Those white guys could not fight. They could not carry your jockstrap. How about that?

You are a danger to yourself but not others. How about that?

Whatever make you sleep at night, pal. You were better than Robinson's white fighters. Some black fighters in his record weren't as good as you. You got my point?

[elmersalsa]

Henry was already washed up. Two different styles. One can't box, and the other can't fight inside.

Henry Armstrong couldn't box???? Now I heard everything

Show me his footwork. His jab. His counters. He was all a straight forward perpetual motion fighter. A brilliant inside fighter, which Robinson lacked thereof.

[Tuan_Jim]

Totally depends on the quality of the opposition. Against Robinson's middleweight opp, you're not going to keep the belt. Against Hopkins' championship opposition.... Who is there to lose to?

This is very true, although I have to say, I dislike Hopkins but in his defense I must point out, Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik, Winky Wright and Roy Jones Jr were all there to lose to, and he beat them all (1-1 vs Jones Jr.)

The only middleweight title challengers there are Tito and De la Hoya, both of whom were fatted welterweights. So like I said, there was no one for Hopkins to lose to in his reign--until he lost to the flash in the pan Jermain Taylor, anyway.

That you would even point to Hopkins "win" over a shot 42 year old Roy Jones, coming back from a first round KO loss, as being something meaninful suggests to me that you are not a serious poster.

[gilgamesh]

Henry Armstrong couldn't box???? Now I heard everything

Show me his footwork. His jab. His counters. He was all a straight forward perpetual motion fighter. A brilliant inside fighter, which Robinson lacked thereof.

Alright look guy. You've expressed your opinion. We've expressed ours. Ours is based on in-ring fact that we've shown video evidence of. Yours is based off of "Well I think he...."

Well stop thinking because you weaken the nation.

You're making yourself look like an absolute idiot, an asshole, a guy that disagrees for the sake of disagreeing because he can't get laid...all of the above.

Calm down.

You don't think Robinson was a great fighter...fine. You're an idiot, but fine. Shut up about it.

[gilgamesh]

This is very true, although I have to say, I dislike Hopkins but in his defense I must point out, Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya, Antonio Tarver, Kelly Pavlik, Winky Wright and Roy Jones Jr were all there to lose to, and he beat them all (1-1 vs Jones Jr.)

The only middleweight title challengers there are Tito and De la Hoya, both of whom were fatted welterweights. So like I said, there was no one for Hopkins to lose to in his reign--until he lost to the flash in the pan Jermain Taylor, anyway.

That you would even point to Hopkins "win" over a shot 42 year old Roy Jones, coming back from a first round KO loss, as being something meaninful suggests to me that you are not a serious poster.

It was meaningful for his own personal pride if nothing else.

Glen Johnson, Antwun Echols and John David Jackson weren't exactly weak opponents during B-Hop's title reign either for the record.

Also Howard Eastman and William Joppy were #1 contenders at the time he fought them so they were as good as was available to him at the time.

[Wee Tommy]

You are a danger to yourself but not others. How about that?

Whatever make you sleep at night, pal. You were better than Robinson's white fighters. Some black fighters in his record weren't as good as you. You got my point?

No, I’m baffled by your gibberish. .

[elmersalsa]

Show me his footwork. His jab. His counters. He was all a straight forward perpetual motion fighter. A brilliant inside fighter, which Robinson lacked thereof.

Alright look guy. You've expressed your opinion. We've expressed ours. Ours is based on in-ring fact that we've shown video evidence of. Yours is based off of "Well I think he...."

Well stop thinking because you weaken the nation.

You're making yourself look like an absolute idiot, an asshole, a guy that disagrees for the sake of disagreeing because he can't get laid...all of the above.

Calm down.

You don't think Robinson was a great fighter...fine. You're an idiot, but fine. Shut up about it.

Did I have ever called you a name? Don't follow some people's footsteps, gilgamesh. That's evil. You are not being your own self. You are better than that. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, is an idiot. It's just a matter of opinion.

I asked someone about the great Henry Armstrong's boxing skills like jab, footwork and countering. He didn't answer me. He knew that I was right. He didn't called me names.

Please, bro. Be your own man. Don't follow the evil. Think for yourself. Think outside the box and see it yourself.

The great Sugar Ray Robinson was not the all COMPLETE fighter that we thought when were kids. Something that old school boxing history buffs like Bert Sugar and Curt Gowdy, for example, put us to believe. I mentioned 10 fighters! Ten fighters that were MORE COMPLETE than he was. So, for that I am an idiot?

See those ten that I have mentioned. Maybe you will have a change of heart. That's if you don't let pride and ego be in your way.

[elmersalsa]

Whatever make you sleep at night, pal. You were better than Robinson's white fighters. Some black fighters in his record weren't as good as you. You got my point?

No, I’m baffled by your gibberish. .

Well, I can't do nothing for you, man! You can't comprehend. Have a nice day. How about that?

[Wee Tommy]

No, I’m baffled by your gibberish. .

Well, I can't do nothing for you, man! You can't comprehend. Have a nice day. How about that?

I can understand that perfectly. Good day to you.

[gilgamesh]

Alright look guy. You've expressed your opinion. We've expressed ours. Ours is based on in-ring fact that we've shown video evidence of. Yours is based off of "Well I think he...."

Well stop thinking because you weaken the nation.

You're making yourself look like an absolute idiot, an asshole, a guy that disagrees for the sake of disagreeing because he can't get laid...all of the above.

Calm down.

You don't think Robinson was a great fighter...fine. You're an idiot, but fine. Shut up about it.

Did I have ever called you a name? Don't follow some people's footsteps, gilgamesh. That's evil. You are not being your own self. You are better than that. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, is an idiot. It's just a matter of opinion.

I asked someone about the great Henry Armstrong's boxing skills like jab, footwork and countering. He didn't answer me. He knew that I was right. He didn't called me names.

Please, bro. Be your own man. Don't follow the evil. Think for yourself. Think outside the box and see it yourself.

The great Sugar Ray Robinson was not the all COMPLETE fighter that we thought when were kids. Something that old school boxing history buffs like Bert Sugar and Curt Gowdy, for example, put us to believe. I mentioned 10 fighters! Ten fighters that were MORE COMPLETE than he was. So, for that I am an idiot?

See those ten that I have mentioned. Maybe you will have a change of heart. That's if you don't let pride and ego be in your way.

The words I expressed are my own. I didn't say what you said because you disagreed. I don't care that you disagree. I said what I said because the reasons you disagree don't make any sense, and are not valid as has been pointed out numerous times. So now you're just saying sh*t to be saying sh*t.

Robinson was a great fighter, he could fight on the inside, and he's a Legend in the sport.

I repeat, if you don't think he was the best ever. Fair enough, but if you don't think he could fight on the inside. You're wrong, and that's not an opinion.

Also for the record, I didn't CALL you anything. I said you're acting like those things. Which was a 100% accurate statement, and I stand by it.

[elmersalsa]

Did I have ever called you a name? Don't follow some people's footsteps, gilgamesh. That's evil. You are not being your own self. You are better than that. Just because someone doesn't agree with you, is an idiot. It's just a matter of opinion.

I asked someone about the great Henry Armstrong's boxing skills like jab, footwork and countering. He didn't answer me. He knew that I was right. He didn't called me names.

Please, bro. Be your own man. Don't follow the evil. Think for yourself. Think outside the box and see it yourself.

The great Sugar Ray Robinson was not the all COMPLETE fighter that we thought when were kids. Something that old school boxing history buffs like Bert Sugar and Curt Gowdy, for example, put us to believe. I mentioned 10 fighters! Ten fighters that were MORE COMPLETE than he was. So, for that I am an idiot?

See those ten that I have mentioned. Maybe you will have a change of heart. That's if you don't let pride and ego be in your way.

The words I expressed are my own. I didn't say what you said because you disagreed. I don't care that you disagree. I said what I said because the reasons you disagree don't make any sense, and are not valid as has been pointed out numerous times. So now you're just saying sh*t to be saying sh*t.

Robinson was a great fighter, he could fight on the inside, and he's a Legend in the sport.

I repeat, if you don't think he was the best ever. Fair enough, but if you don't think he could fight on the inside. You're wrong, and that's not an opinion.

Gilgamesh, you your own self showed me a video of Robinson against the great Jake LaMotta about that he had great inside fighting skills. I was like say what? I didn't see any. What Sugar Ray had was long and middle distance game. Not inside game at all whatsoever.

I have never said that he was not a legend. Can he fight? Yes.
Can he take a punch? Yes
Can he box? Definitely
Did he had great stamina? Yes
Heart, will and determination? Yes
Punching power? Yes

Inside game? Lots to be desired. He wasn't even good at that department. Ralph "Tiger" Jones whupped him inside in 1955. And Jones wasn't a great fighter. Greats like Carmen Basilio and Gene Fullmer totally outclassed and dominated him inside.

And no, I don't think he was the best ever pound per pound. He flunked with Joey Maxim in a fight that he was winning. Meanwhile, the great Henry Armstrong at the same time, was robbed, according to some experts that were there against Ceferino Garcia for his 4th world title. A fighter that Armstrong already beat at Welterweight. Henry Armstrong to me, is the best fighter in boxing that ever walked in this Earth. But he wasn't a COMPLETE fighter, either.

[gilgamesh]

No fighter that ever lived is flawless. We're all human.