Is it time for the WBO to strip Joshua?

[Grilling Machine]

I actually agree with you that we ascribe their worth to their holders and so their intrinsic value will always be in flux, but now that we've so many we can only look at history to see which clubs we'd like to belong to. I remember Catley talking about how the WBC meant the most to him because of its prestige at his weight.

[margaret thatcher]

I see what you mean, but prestige comes from the past rather than today. Prestige is also influenced by stuff such as marketing.

At the moment, when addressing current belt holders and the legitimacy of their titles at present, I see no reason to rank the WBA>WBC as the only two legitimate titles, with the IBF a 2nd string and the WBO not even counting. To me the fact that the WBA put out a world title first, decades and decades ago, simply isn't as relevant as whether they currently have the best champions, the best mandatories and contenders, the best enforcement and managment, etc.

[Stobbo]

I see what you mean, but prestige comes from the past rather than today. Prestige is also influenced by stuff such as marketing.

At the moment, when addressing current belt holders and the legitimacy of their titles at present, I see no reason to rank the WBA>WBC as the only two legitimate titles, with the IBF a 2nd string and the WBO not even counting. To me the fact that the WBA put out a world title first, decades and decades ago, simply isn't as relevant as whether they currently have the best champions, the best mandatories and contenders, the best enforcement and managment, etc.

Good post, especially the last bit.

[Finkel]

I think strip him. IF i had faith that after pulev AJ would fight the wilder fury winner id hold off. but i don't believe that will be next. strip him, let parer and usyk fight for it. Aj can double back for it later.
Im normaly for as few champs as possable, but if your going to have 3 belts, i think you either need to fight 3 times a year, hurry to make undisputed, or just fight your mandatorys (with no rematch clauses).
Its going to be 20 months between fighting pov and pulev. and in that time AJ and the 3 belts will of fought andy ruiz, who did great, but did not deserve that title shot.

This for me is a major issue. He has responsibilities to defend the belts at a decent frequency. I posted the following on the CS board, but I think it is relevant to this discussion:

My issue is I don’t feel Joshua as a unified champion is defending the belts with enough regularity I looked at the various unified champions from Tyson onward. If we only consider unified championship runs which included at least one successful defence we are left with Tyson, Hollyfield I, Bowe, Hollyfield III, Lewis I, Lewis II, Klitschko and Joshua.

Tyson became unified champion at age 21, and defended on average once every 3.89 months

Hollyfield became unified champion at age 28, and defending avg every 6.25 months

Bowe became unified champion at age 21, and defending avg every 4 months

Hollyfield III became unified champion at age 35, and defending avg every 8 months

Lewis I became unified champion at age 32, and defending avg every 4.25 months

Lewis II became unified champion at age 36, and defending avg every 9.5 months

Klitschko became unified champion at age 31, and defending avg every 6.2 months

Joshua became unified champion at age 28, and defending avg every 6.5 months

Only Holyfield and Lewis in their final championship runs (outside their prime) fought less frequently than Joshua.
Whereas Joshua who is in prime and aged 30 is defending less frequently than Klitschko whose run was between the ages of 31 and 39.

Joshua needs to pick up the pace, or drop one of the belts.

If you look back at the other unified heavyweight champions since the 80s/90s we have examples of fighters being stripped or dropping one of their belts when they didn't face mandated opponents within the required time-frame, see Bowe and Foreman. I realise I'm at risk of sounding like a broken record, but Joshua is getting a lot of leeway here.

[Finkel]

I see what you mean, but prestige comes from the past rather than today. Prestige is also influenced by stuff such as marketing.

At the moment, when addressing current belt holders and the legitimacy of their titles at present, I see no reason to rank the WBA>WBC as the only two legitimate titles, with the IBF a 2nd string and the WBO not even counting. To me the fact that the WBA put out a world title first, decades and decades ago, simply isn't as relevant as whether they currently have the best champions, the best mandatories and contenders, the best enforcement and managment, etc.

Yeah I agree with this, I kind of feel the IBF might actually be the most respectable at the moment. Plus when Wladimir was holding the IBF and WBO for years, the WBA was just viewed as an alternative route to leverage a fight with the Klitschkos.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, the IBF has been strictest on its mandatories and with holding eliminators. Their knock is the recycling of the same guys but overall they seem to do the best management job I'd say. Maybe that court case in the 90s sorted them out

[gilgamesh]

Warren wouldn't have any say over anything involving Wilder or Fury. Anything he says on the matter would be just speculation like any of us.

I’m sure Frank has a little more insight than us.

About fighters and matchups he's not promoting? I doubt it.

[gilgamesh]

Today I put the most value on Wilder's WBC at heavy, because it matters as much as all of AJ's put together as just one belt. But in the context of history I couldn't view it that way without dismissing loads of ‘real’ champs. Without the WBA in its former guise there are no pre-'62 champs.

Without history, sure, the WBA are shite these days. But I think it's still true that the WBA and WBC remain the most-prized belts.

I don't know that any of the 4 belts have any importance over the other. It all just depends on who the Champion is. The Champion makes the title.

[margaret thatcher]

I’m sure Frank has a little more insight than us.

About fighters and matchups he's not promoting? I doubt it.

Frankfurter co-promotes him with Bob

[gilgamesh]

About fighters and matchups he's not promoting? I doubt it.

Frankfurter co-promotes him with Bob

News to me. I thought Bob Arum had full promotional rights to him.

I guess Frank would indeed know something then.

[THEBUTCH]

In answer to the original question .... No.

The plan seems to be IBF mandatory Pulev next, then WBO mandatory Usyk.

In reality and not in the weird world of the WBO, Usyk has done bugger all at heavyweight to earn a mandatory position, so a shot at the title in the back half of 2020 seems ok to me.