Extra weight at HW debate

[Controversial]

Always a hot topic of discussion. Some argue that extra weight doesn't help, others say it does. Marciano could've beaten todays HWs still weighing 13 stone etc. So does extra weight help, smart weight gain I mean not just stuffing your face with pizza ala Andy Ruiz.

[margaret thatcher]

I think big natural size helps to an extent (JJ beating up 160 pounders lol), though if it's just fat I don't think it helps

Some guy on here always uses Wilder as an example of smaller HWs being able to succeed, but he's been outweighed mainly because his opponents have been fatter than him. Look still how lean and ripped he is at 231, then look at how the other guys are around that weight. He is clearly 'naturely' not that outsized. With these recent eras of HWs the weights have become massively inflated with fatties, why is it so hard to keep trim??

[margaret thatcher]

As for Marciano, he's just a far far smaller man than HWs around in the last several decades are, even not accounting for fat. The guy has the height of a junior middleweight, the reach of a junior lightweight, and if he was in the mid 180s on fight day you're looking at someone who is at max the size of LHWs today. Factoring in his face first style based on physicality, I think loads of guys would have mullered him

[Controversial]

I think big natural size helps to an extent (JJ beating up 160 pounders lol), though if it's just fat I don't think it helps

Some guy on here always uses Wilder as an example of smaller HWs being able to succeed, but he's been outweighed mainly because his opponents have been fatter than him. Look still how lean and ripped he is at 231, then look at how the other guys are around that weight. He is clearly 'naturely' not that outsized. With these recent eras of HWs the weights have become massively inflated with fatties, why is it so hard to keep trim??

Yep, Wilder is 6’7” so never really understood the small HW argument, I can only think of Valuev and Fury as being world champs that are taller than him so the third tallest HW champ in boxing history. As you say he carries no fat and has a long reach too. Fury has certainly bulked up, the extra weight must be a help or he wouldn’t have bulked up. Whatever anyone says having a 19-20 stone man leaning on you and pushing you around is tiring, even if they can’t fight particularly well.


.

[Bodyshot3]

I always think about Herbie Hide when it comes to finding a way to adding a bit of extra, crucial weight.

He was not without a great deal of talent - quick hands, feet and a quite explosive, hurtful puncher - but he essentially got "rag-dolled" by Vitali and Bowe and his intrinsically aggressive style was very dangerous against these leviathans.

But maybe if Hide had even been able to add 15-18 pounds to his frame without the add being excess timber that slowed him down and which also sapped his stamina.....things might have got interesting.

Of course, with Hide there were other factors involved as well which were not perhaps fixed by adding 15-18 pounds of useful and productive bulk. Herbie was not a great listener in camp or on the night

[oogiebe]

I think big natural size helps to an extent (JJ beating up 160 pounders lol), though if it's just fat I don't think it helps

Some guy on here always uses Wilder as an example of smaller HWs being able to succeed, but he's been outweighed mainly because his opponents have been fatter than him. Look still how lean and ripped he is at 231, then look at how the other guys are around that weight. He is clearly 'naturely' not that outsized. With these recent eras of HWs the weights have become massively inflated with fatties, why is it so hard to keep trim??

Funny how 6'7" and 225 (avg) can be construed as small. I tend to agree with you here.

[margaret thatcher]

Ya, and he's totally ripped at even at 231. He could go to 250 and still look in better shape than most of these fatties. Hell, I think the random average guy has less jiggles on him than most the HW division

[oogiebe]

Always a hot topic of discussion. Some argue that extra weight doesn't help, others say it does. Marciano could've beaten todays HWs still weighing 13 stone etc. So does extra weight help, smart weight gain I mean not just stuffing your face with pizza ala Andy Ruiz.

I'm a man of history, but in no way could Marciano have beaten the super heavy's of today. Love the Rock. One of my fav all time, but at 5'9" and 185 with 68" reach he'd barely survive today's CW.

[oogiebe]

Ya, and he's totally ripped at it. He could go to 240 and still look in better shape than most of these fatties. Hell, I think the random average guy has less jiggles on him than most the HW division

So his titties would be even more delectable.

But seriously, being fit at HW these days doesn't seem to be the focus. Weights are certainly inflated for hte most part. Even Dubs has a good amount of fat on him.

[margaret thatcher]

[Brute]

Ya, and he's totally ripped at even at 231. He could go to 250 and still look in better shape than most of these fatties. Hell, I think the random average guy has less jiggles on him than most the HW division

"Being ripped" has never been a big deal in heavyweight boxing. Liston had a bigger chest and arms and smaller waist than Clay. Wilder has never weighed 231 in a fight before. Fury has frequently fought at over 270.

[oogiebe]

Ya, and he's totally ripped at even at 231. He could go to 250 and still look in better shape than most of these fatties. Hell, I think the random average guy has less jiggles on him than most the HW division

"Being ripped" has never been a big deal in heavyweight boxing. Liston had a bigger chest and arms and smaller waist than Clay. Wilder has never weighed 231 in a fight before. Fury has frequently fought at over 270.

What's your point?

[Onetimeonly]

Marciano would batter most of these guys. While the size would be an obstacle later tonight when these guys throw 10 punches a Rd keep in mind rocky would throw 100.

[oogiebe]

Marciano would batter most of these guys. While the size would be an obstacle later tonight when these guys throw 10 punches a Rd keep in mind rocky would throw 100.

Not a chance.

[Duran1970]

As for Marciano, he's just a far far smaller man than HWs around in the last several decades are, even not accounting for fat. The guy has the height of a junior middleweight, the reach of a junior lightweight, and if he was in the mid 180s on fight day you're looking at someone who is at max the size of LHWs today. Factoring in his face first style based on physicality, I think loads of guys would have mullered him

Rubbish....
You forgot to mention he had vicious power.
He would've starched these chinny behemoths...
The good ol' size argument again.

[Duran1970]

Always a hot topic of discussion. Some argue that extra weight doesn't help, others say it does. Marciano could've beaten todays HWs still weighing 13 stone etc. So does extra weight help, smart weight gain I mean not just stuffing your face with pizza ala Andy Ruiz.

I'm a man of history, but in no way could Marciano have beaten the super heavy's of today. Love the Rock. One of my fav all time, but at 5'9" and 185 with 68" reach he'd barely survive today's CW.

5'9"????

[Onetimeonly]

Marciano would batter most of these guys. While the size would be an obstacle later tonight when these guys throw 10 punches a Rd keep in mind rocky would throw 100.

Not a chance.

[Brute]

"Being ripped" has never been a big deal in heavyweight boxing. Liston had a bigger chest and arms and smaller waist than Clay. Wilder has never weighed 231 in a fight before. Fury has frequently fought at over 270.

What's your point?

Body builders are usually "better built" than weight lifters, but the weight lifters are stronger. Body builders concentrate on different muscles.

[Controversial]

I think Fury showed the other night how sheer size and weight can be a huge advantage. Wilder is 6'7" and 16.5 stone and not only looked small but was manhandled and worn down by a much heavier opponent. Of course Fury knows how to fight too and that is always the more important quality but being huge certainly helps if you can fight as well.

[Ambling Alp II]

You could also argue a different way. Wilder himself weighed much more than the previous fight and did much better. Was there something that Wilder could have done so that he would not have been "manhandled"?

Your original question was whether smart weight gain help?
The answer seems to be maybe.

You also asked if Marciano have beaten today's heavyweights? Well you have to look at what today's heavyweights can do and what Marciano could do.

[Controversial]

You could also argue a different way. Wilder himself weighed much more than the previous fight and did much better. Was there something that Wilder could have done so that he would not have been "manhandled"?

Your original question was whether smart weight gain help?
The answer seems to be maybe.

You also asked if Marciano have beaten today's heavyweights? Well you have to look at what today's heavyweights can do and what Marciano could do.

I wasn’t saying Marciano could, that’s not an uncommon view that’s what I meant. Personally I don’t think a 13 stone man would stand a chance today. Can you imagine how weeny Marciano would be in comparison to Tyson Fury, he wouldn't get near him.

What’s odd with Fury is he clearly carries extra flab but it actually benefits him.
Him and his father both said he felt and looked weak against Wallin where he was 20lb lighter. So even though he carries flab the extra weight helps him.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yes I could imagine Marciano getting near Fury. And actually throwing punches. And landing.
Sure if the other guy is just going to stand there, the bigger guy can lean on him and could wear him down. It's a lot harder to lean on a guy who is throwing a ton of punches, which is what Marciano did.

If you are good enough, you find a way.

A while back, we had a thread where we went through history and looked as fights where one great heavyweight who was small, ( I think he had to be 200 or less) took on a much heavier guy (I think he had to be at least 220).

The smaller guy won almost every time. I think we found twice in history where the bigger guy won.

We need to do more than say "Fighter A weighs a lot more, nothing more to see here."

[Controversial]

But we are talking about an extreme difference between Fury and Marciano, almost a foot in height, 6 stone in weight and 17” in reach. Big HWs struggle to get near Fury.

[Bodyshot3]

Fury always fascinates me, he seemingly flouts most of the rules when it comes to his weight.

I kind of groaned when he weighed-in for the latest Wilder fight - it just seemed too much poundage even for a guy only a few inches short of being 7Ft tall - but he somehow remained just as sharp, busy and mobile whilst also carrying that extra and useful bulk to bully and maul Wilder much as he pleased and which badly tired the American.

Not sure how Tyson does it to be perfectly honest.....looking back at the fight he never really slowed down and could have done the 12 rounds without any problems whatsoever.

If he came in at 19 stone against Joshua you'd probably have to say it was his best weight.

[Controversial]

Fury always fascinates me, he seemingly flouts most of the rules when it comes to his weight.

I kind of groaned when he weighed-in for the latest Wilder fight - it just seemed too much poundage even for a guy only a few inches short of being 7Ft tall - but he somehow remained just as sharp, busy and mobile whilst also carrying that extra and useful bulk to bully and maul Wilder much as he pleased and which badly tired the American.

Not sure how Tyson does it to be perfectly honest.....looking back at the fight he never really slowed down and could have done the 12 rounds without any problems whatsoever.

If he came in at 19 stone against Joshua you'd probably have to say it was his best weight.

I agree, he shouldn’t be able to do what he does, he doesn’t even live the life, when he’s not training he drinks and parties.